Insincerity, selflessness, and apps

[Shredder]

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You gotta understand, most of these people have wanted to be doctors their whole lives. They have no idea or understanding outside of the world of medicine. Anyone who knows about banking, engineering, consulting, or law knows those fields offer salaries as large, if not larger, than you're average physician (I know because my father is an engineer, my brother a trader, myself a consultant, and several close friends are lawyers).

sampling bias

 

[DrBowtie]

Please name an undergrad degree where you will make 6 figures out of college? Is it a BA in nepotism?

 

[CTSballer11]

Hahahahahaha... oh MAN! "Engineers make jacksh*t." Ok, I'll take that in the context it was given. But hands down, out of undergrad, I can tell you that engineers make more with their degree than anyone else hired for what they majored in. Starting salary for a chemical engineer seems to fluctuate every year, but it's always above $50,000, from the source I have ("Chemical and Engineering News", a monthly magazine). Furthermore, after graduate school and Ph.D. work, if you don't have the research credentials to patent something and start your own company (which could lead to 6 or 7 figures), you are almost guaranteed over 75K. This doesn't compare to MD salaries, but don't insult me and all other engineers by proclaiming that engineers make jacksh*t.

LOL. My father is an electrical engineer and currently works for NASA. I did not mean to insult you. I was comparing an Engineers salary to that of a doctor out of residency.

 

[Shredder]

Yes there is, it's called law school, business school, or even undergraduate.

ok, you CAN make 6 figures or 150k, but its not guaranteed. its highly unlikely. whereas 6 figures is guaranteed in med even at the bottom school at the bottom of your class. there is no other field for which that can be said.

 

[Enginerd42]

its the student doctor network, you have to take everything in its context otherwise it might as well be the peoples network. also its the preallo subforum

but if you want guaranteed money and job security, there is absolutely no better deal than medicine. banking, law, engineering--bunch of hogwash, its no coincidence theyre not nearly as competitive as medicine except at their topmost levels. and those topmost levels are where their incomes begin to correspond with those in medicine.

I agree with you Master Shredder (for I too was a ninja turtle once), but now I turn my fire to your side of the camp (I had agreed with everything you have said in this thread up to your last post): banking, law, engineering a bunch of hogwash? OK, maybe banking. I'm just asking that you choose your words lightly. Engineers are the people that discover new ways of doing things; they're the people that have brought us such fast processor speeds so that we can communicate like this; they're the people that allow your dental fillings to set in a matter of seconds; they're the people that are going to make fossil fuels obsolete; they're the people... I digress. I'll put it this way: the 4.0/45 student that gets into Hopkins or Mayo or wherever can do just as much good in a carrer in medicine as he/she can in engineering. The difference? Salary and respect, that's it. From the male's perspecitve: you tell an attractive woman at a cocktail party that you're a doctor, you've got her in the sack; you tell that same woman you're an engineer, she'll give you that look like you're a train conductor and mosey on over to the next tuxedo.

I agree that a degree in medicine brings with it outstanding job security, but from my experience, the most intelligent individuals don't even give medicine a second thought. The pure sciences, mathematics, physics, and the like, are where the brightest individuals are driven. Without them, doctors would still be letting blood to rid someone of the plague.

 

[Tigerstang]

Please name an undergrad degree where you will make 6 figures out of college? Is it a BA in nepotism?

Several of my friends with AB's in Economics are making six figures working at CSFB, Bear Sterns, and Goldman Sachs. The starting salary for a front-office, Mahattan IB is now up to roughly $102,000, not counting bonus.

Also, you are all comparing first year employees to physicians. Be smart. Compare employees with 9 years experience to a doctor. After med school and residency, you have spent 9 years working. And the average salary for a consultant, banker, engineer, or trader with 9 years experience is definitely higher than that of a first year physician.

 

[Shredder]

Exactly. Like I said the average doc will make more than any other profession. Although the top 5% of businessmen would earn large amounts more than the top 5% of doctors. I'll rely on myself being average rather than the top 5%.

its ok, if we go md/mba we will not only have that potential for greatness but also the cushion of safety, thats what i love about the med biz concept

 

[CTSballer11]

If you graduate from a non prestigous law school you will go no where. If you graduate from a non prestigous medical school and are last in your class; you are still guarenteed 150K a yr out of residency. If you have good business skills you can bring in a lot more. My uncle is a surgeon who went to a nonprestigous medical school, and he is making a lot of money. (he also enjoys his job).

 

[Shredder]

I agree with you Master Shredder (for I too was a ninja turtle once), but now I turn my fire to your side of the camp (I had agreed with everything you have said in this thread up to your last post): banking, law, engineering a bunch of hogwash? OK, maybe banking. I'm just asking that you choose your words lightly. Engineers are the people that discover new ways of doing things; they're the people that have brought us such fast processor speeds so that we can communicate like this; they're the people that allow your dental fillings to set in a matter of seconds; they're the people that are going to make fossil fuels obsolete; they're the people... I digress. I'll put it this way: the 4.0/45 student that gets into Hopkins or Mayo or wherever can do just as much good in a carrer in medicine as he/she can in engineering. The difference? Salary and respect, that's it. From the male's perspecitve: you tell an attractive woman at a cocktail party that you're a doctor, you've got her in the sack; you tell that same woman you're an engineer, she'll give you that look like you're a train conductor and mosey on over to the next tuxedo.

I agree that a degree in medicine brings with it outstanding job security, but from my experience, the most intelligent individuals don't even give medicine a second thought. The pure sciences, mathematics, physics, and the like, are where the brightest individuals are driven. Without them, doctors would still be letting blood to rid someone of the plague.

sorry without even finishing reading your post i didnt mean they are hogwash at all--yes i shouldve been more clear with that, what i meant was that its hogwash to claim that they offer the same job security and income guarantee that med offers. my dads an engineer, all respect for other fields besides medicine.

+im an engineering major, ive definitely had exposure to its highlights. oh also i dont think banking is hogwash at all, many times ive stood up for them in the midst of premed banking bashing. everyone plays their parts.

after finishing your post, yes everything you said makes sense.

 

[Tigerstang]

LOL. My father is an electrical engineer and currently works for NASA. I did not mean to insult you. I was comparing an Engineers salary to that of a doctor out of residency.

Government work always pays less. An Army doc isn't making the kind of money these people assume doctors are making, either.

 

[DrBowtie]

In 2002, the median annual earnings of all lawyers was $90,290. The middle half of the occupation earned between $61,060 and $136,810. The lowest paid 10 percent earned less than $44,490; at least 10 percent earned more than $145,600. Median annual earnings in the industries employing the largest numbers of lawyers in 2002 are given in the following tabulation:


Management of companies and enterprises $131,970
Federal government 98,790
Legal services 93,970
Local government 69,710
State government 67,910

Physicians:http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm
FP ~150K
Gas~ 300K

Median annual earnings of financial analysts were $57,100 in 2002. The middle 50 percent earned between $43,660 and $76,620. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $34,570, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $108,060. Median annual earnings in the industries employing the largest numbers of financial analysts in 2002 were as follows:

Median annual earnings of financial managers were $73,340 in 2002. The middle 50 percent earned between $52,490 and $100,660. The lowest 10 percent had earnings of less than $39,120, while the top 10 percent earned over $142,260. Median annual earnings in the industries employing the largest numbers of financial managers in 2002 were as follows:

You are OWNED!

 

[CTSballer11]

I agree with you Master Shredder (for I too was a ninja turtle once), but now I turn my fire to your side of the camp (I had agreed with everything you have said in this thread up to your last post): banking, law, engineering a bunch of hogwash? OK, maybe banking. I'm just asking that you choose your words lightly. Engineers are the people that discover new ways of doing things; they're the people that have brought us such fast processor speeds so that we can communicate like this; they're the people that allow your dental fillings to set in a matter of seconds; they're the people that are going to make fossil fuels obsolete; they're the people... I digress. I'll put it this way: the 4.0/45 student that gets into Hopkins or Mayo or wherever can do just as much good in a carrer in medicine as he/she can in engineering. The difference? Salary and respect, that's it. From the male's perspecitve: you tell an attractive woman at a cocktail party that you're a doctor, you've got her in the sack; you tell that same woman you're an engineer, she'll give you that look like you're a train conductor and mosey on over to the next tuxedo.

I agree that a degree in medicine brings with it outstanding job security, but from my experience, the most intelligent individuals don't even give medicine a second thought. The pure sciences, mathematics, physics, and the like, are where the brightest individuals are driven. Without them, doctors would still be letting blood to rid someone of the plague.

Without engineers medicine would not be where it is today. No doubt about that. As I said earlier my father is an engineer and was in the top one percent of his graduating class. (GPA) He is a smart guy but does not bring in the respect or the money a physician does.

 

[Enginerd42]

theres no other field where you can attend the lowest school in the country and graduate last in your class, and still make 6 figures, maybe even 150k. the other fields can potentially be more lucrative, but the averages are indisputable.

Thanks for helping me out here Tigress, mad props to you! I have a stratling example for you Shredder. Luckily this site is anonymous. A close friend from high school lives in northern california and grows marijuana for a living. He makes 6 figures, UNDER THE TABLE. He sells it to medical patients with various ailments. Talk about returning to the original purpose of this thread! My father trades stocks and makes the upper end of 6 figures, he's a retired airline pilot (oh yea, and while he was flying your father all over the world in a 757/767, he was making 6 figures then too). How many more examples do you need, I've got plenty.

 

[CTSballer11]

Government work always pays less. An Army doc isn't making the kind of money these people assume doctors are making, either.

My godfather and uncle are both engineers. One works for IBM, the other for the FCC. They both bring in the same amount of money my father does. Both lack job security. My uncle who works for IBM, just got word that he will be let go, and will have to find a new job. He was five years away from his pension. There is no job security compared to medicine.

 

[Shredder]

Thanks for helping me out here Tigress, mad props to you! I have a stratling example for you Shredder. Luckily this site is anonymous. A close friend from high school lives in northern california and grows marijuana for a living. He makes 6 figures, UNDER THE TABLE. He sells it to medical patients with various ailments. Talk about returning to the original purpose of this thread! My father trades stocks and makes the upper end of 6 figures, he's a retired airline pilot (oh yea, and while he was flying your father all over the world in a 757/767, he was making 6 figures then too). How many more examples do you need, I've got plenty.

i see your point, but its like providing examples of prominent billionaires and saying how easy it is to reach there considering how many there are. what isnt mentioned is the thousands or millions who have fallen flat on their faces in the pursuit of 'uge success. again its sampling bias. so yes you CAN hit it big outside of med, its just that med offers the guarantee and safety that you cannot find anywhere else.

edit: additionally docs have historically gotten that element of intangible prestige, the medicine men, the life savers. but yes scientists, engineers and whatnot are crucial, but in the public eye they are not perceived in the same way.

 

[DrBowtie]

I did my research above and now I can officially say that the average doc will make the most. Confirmed by government data.

 

[CTSballer11]

Thanks for helping me out here Tigress, mad props to you! I have a stratling example for you Shredder. Luckily this site is anonymous. A close friend from high school lives in northern california and grows marijuana for a living. He makes 6 figures, UNDER THE TABLE. He sells it to medical patients with various ailments. Talk about returning to the original purpose of this thread! My father trades stocks and makes the upper end of 6 figures, he's a retired airline pilot (oh yea, and while he was flying your father all over the world in a 757/767, he was making 6 figures then too). How many more examples do you need, I've got plenty.

That was back in the day when Airline pilots made good money wtih job security. Where have you been the last few years? There is absolutely no job security for airline pilots these days.

 

[Tigerstang]

In 2002, the median annual earnings of all lawyers was $90,290. The middle half of the occupation earned between $61,060 and $136,810. The lowest paid 10 percent earned less than $44,490; at least 10 percent earned more than $145,600. Median annual earnings in the industries employing the largest numbers of lawyers in 2002 are given in the following tabulation:


Management of companies and enterprises $131,970
Federal government 98,790
Legal services 93,970
Local government 69,710
State government 67,910

Physicians:http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm
FP ~150K
Gas~ 300K

Median annual earnings of financial analysts were $57,100 in 2002. The middle 50 percent earned between $43,660 and $76,620. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $34,570, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $108,060. Median annual earnings in the industries employing the largest numbers of financial analysts in 2002 were as follows:

Median annual earnings of financial managers were $73,340 in 2002. The middle 50 percent earned between $52,490 and $100,660. The lowest 10 percent had earnings of less than $39,120, while the top 10 percent earned over $142,260. Median annual earnings in the industries employing the largest numbers of financial managers in 2002 were as follows:

You are OWNED!

I was not speaking of financial analysts or managers. I was speaking of investment bankers and financial traders. And again, you're averaging first year employees in there. After 9 years, you're not in your first year anymore, buddy.

The average consultant with 9 years experience has a salary of 120,000k. Factor in the lack of med school debt, and that's significantly higher than the 150k average you quoted for physicians.

A bulge bracket IB w/ 10 years experience has a salary ranging from 300k-1.2MM. A regional player will still average between 200-7000k.

The average bulge bracket financial trader with 10 years experience is retired, so it's hard to estimate an annual salary from their various investments and holdings. Net worth from trading experience alone, however, usually runs between 15-20 million. This is true for fixed income, derivatives, and equity traders.

Now I will be the first to say these folks work longer and harder than most doctors and lack job security. But their is absolutely no question that they have higher average salaries and represent much quicker ways of making money.

While I try not to reduce myself to childish insults over the internet, I cannot help but say that it appears you, my friend, are "owned."

 

[Enginerd42]

My godfather and uncle are both engineers. One works for IBM, the other for the FCC. They both bring in the same amount of money my father does. Both lack job security. My uncle who works for IBM, just got word that he will be let go, and will have to find a new job. He was five years away from his pension. There is no job security compared to medicine.

The corporate world sucks, big time... the same thing almost happened to my father, luckily he had put 35 years in with his employer (USAirways) and they had the respect to not fire him before he could retire. It's definitely something that is not worth facing and I feel sorry for people like your uncle who invest their lives in a company and are thrown out like last night's special.

On a side note, I hate how I write such long responses and in the mean time several other people have replied to the thread such that what I'm trying to write is almost irrelevant but I don't even know it... maybe it's happening right now?!

 

[Shredder]

I did my research above and now I can officially say that the average doc will make the most. Confirmed by government data.

yeah that was quite a few stats. i thought it was common and accepted knowledge that docs on average make the most of all jobs. but i guess if there are naysayers then the displayed numbers dont lie.

 

[CTSballer11]

I did my research above and now I can officially say that the average doc will make the most. Confirmed by government data.

They have officially been owned. Good Work.

 

[Tigerstang]

My godfather and uncle are both engineers. One works for IBM, the other for the FCC. They both bring in the same amount of money my father does. Both lack job security. My uncle who works for IBM, just got word that he will be let go, and will have to find a new job. He was five years away from his pension. There is no job security compared to medicine.

You are correct, but this is not a debate over job security. It's a debate over average salaries. Job security there is no question, medicine and law are the two most (equally) secure professions. People will always sue one another, and people will always get sick. When you work for yourself, you'll always have a job (and all doctors and lawyers can always work for themselves).

 

[DrBowtie]

I am not owned unless you can show me sources, you can't claim the work harder because it is impossible to know.

There is no way to compare unless you take averages. There will always be one example higher than the other. Find your IB on the government site and then we will see. But as for all of your other examples, I would say they are toast.

Your down to your last bullet and it might be a blank as well.

 

[Shredder]

I was not speaking of financial analysts or managers. I was speaking of investment bankers and financial traders. And again, you're averaging first year employees in there. After 9 years, you're not in your first year anymore, buddy.

The average consultant with 9 years experience has a salary of 120,000k. Factor in the lack of med school debt, and that's significantly higher than the 150k average you quoted for physicians.

A bulge bracket IB w/ 10 years experience has a salary ranging from 300k-1.2MM. A regional player will still average between 200-7000k.

The average bulge bracket financial trader with 10 years experience is retired, so it's hard to estimate an annual salary from their various investments and holdings. Net worth from trading experience alone, however, usually runs between 15-20 million. This is true for fixed income, derivatives, and equity traders.

Now I will be the first to say these folks work longer and harder than most doctors and lack job security. But their is absolutely no question that they have higher average salaries and represent much quicker ways of making money.

While I try not to reduce myself to childish insults over the internet, I cannot help but say that it appears you, my friend, are "owned."

imagine medicine and business as two separate bell curves. while everyone on the medical curve will be assured of making 100k+, only the relatively high end of the biz curve will have this same assurance. thus, people jump for joy at the thought of acceptance at any medical school: financial and job security are set for life. not so upon completion of a U Phoenix MBA.

 

[Enginerd42]

That was back in the day when Airline pilots made good money wtih job security. Where have you been the last few years? There is absolutely no job security for airline pilots these days.

To this day, commercial airline pilots still make 6 figures, irrespective of job security

 

[CTSballer11]

The corporate world sucks, big time... the same thing almost happened to my father, luckily he had put 35 years in with his employer (USAirways) and they had the respect to not fire him before he could retire. It's definitely something that is not worth facing and I feel sorry for people like your uncle who invest their lives in a company and are thrown out like last night's special.

On a side note, I hate how I write such long responses and in the mean time several other people have replied to the thread such that what I'm trying to write is almost irrelevant but I don't even know it... maybe it's happening right now?!

That is the reason my father went to work for the Government. He is very bitter about choosing engineering and wishes he could go back and go into medicine. (He sees how well my uncle is doing.) I cannot imagine that you or your father would endorse a career as an airline pilot in today's world.

 

[DrBowtie]

Also 120k for IB and 150K for physicians would still favor the physician with the loans. That still leaves 30K to pay off the debt.

 

[Shredder]

You are correct, but this is not a debate over job security. It's a debate over average salaries. Job security there is no question, medicine and law are the two most (equally) secure professions. People will always sue one another, and people will always get sick. When you work for yourself, you'll always have a job (and all doctors and lawyers can always work for themselves).

i wouldnt say they are equally secure at all. you can have litigation reform to limit the practice of law. you cannot really have sickness reform. also, medical skills have value in any state or country even. law varies widely. so with medicine another perk that hasnt been mentioned is freedom of location.

 

[CTSballer11]

imagine medicine and business as two separate bell curves. while everyone on the medical curve will be assured of making 100k+, only the relatively high end of the biz curve will have this same assurance. thus, people jump for joy at the thought of acceptance at any medical school: financial and job security are set for life. not so upon completion of a U Phoenix MBA.

Exactly

 

[Tigerstang]

I am not owned unless you can show me sources, you can't claim the work harder because it is impossible to know.

There is no way to compare unless you take averages. There will always be one example higher than the other. Find your IB on the government site and then we will see. But as for all of your other examples, I would say they are toast.

Your down to your last bullet and it might be a blank as well.

I'd be happy to provide sources, even though you did not. I had the decency to take you at your word, I'm sorry you lack a similar trust.

http://www.careers-in-finance.com/ibsal.htm

BTW the consulting data is from '93, so I'm sure it's much higher now. In fact, given my current salary and the offers I received when interviewing, I am fairly certain it is. My bad.

http://fisher.osu.edu/fin/opler/conspay1.htm


As for the data on financial traders, that's not published. I know this from my own experience. Like I said, my brother is a trader at a rather large hedge fund and knows quite a bit about the business. Data isn't published on traders because most people, yourself likely included, don't actually know what a trader is or does. Among traders, though, the salaries are pretty common knowledge. Admittedly trader was probably a bad example because there are so few and it's such a difficult job to get, but the IB and consulting data should be enough to soundly disprove your point.

 

[Shredder]

To this day, commercial airline pilots still make 6 figures, irrespective of job security

thats true...but doesnt it take them until about 50 years old to reach that status? first they fly all sorts of cargo planes and small planes, and it takes forever to work your way up to jetliners that pay 6 figures, and the lower end of 6 figures at that, i believe.

 

[Tigerstang]

Also 120k for IB and 150K for physicians would still favor the physician with the loans. That still leaves 30K to pay off the debt.

120k was not for IB, it was for consulting. In '93. IB was 300k.

 

[Tigerstang]

imagine medicine and business as two separate bell curves. while everyone on the medical curve will be assured of making 100k+, only the relatively high end of the biz curve will have this same assurance. thus, people jump for joy at the thought of acceptance at any medical school: financial and job security are set for life. not so upon completion of a U Phoenix MBA.

Wrong. Those were averages.

Averages.

 

[CTSballer11]

I'd be happy to provide sources, even though you did not. I had the decency to take you at your word, I'm sorry you lack a similar trust.

http://www.careers-in-finance.com/ibsal.htm

BTW the consulting data is from '93, so I'm sure it's much higher now. In fact, given my current salary and the offers I received when interviewing, I am fairly certain it is. My bad.

http://fisher.osu.edu/fin/opler/conspay1.htm


As for the data on financial traders, that's not published. I know this from my own experience. Like I said, my brother is a trader at a rather large hedge fund and knows quite a bit about the business. Data isn't published on traders because most people, yourself likely included, don't actually know what a trader is or does. Among traders, though, the salaries are pretty common knowledge. Admittedly trader was probably a bad example because there are so few and it's such a difficult job to get, but the IB and consulting data should be enough to soundly disprove your point.

Thank You for the ammo.

 

[DrBowtie]

Yes there are highly lucrative jobs out there in IB yet the sheer numbers making this amount is small. Also those are forecasted data in the first webpage.

On the second link even the median for SENIOR partner which only top people attain is at 194K. I'll take a 4 year Gas res and take my guarenteed 300K.

 

[DrBowtie]

I showed my sources. It was the 04-05 US government occupational outlook handbook.

 

[Shredder]

Yes there are highly lucrative jobs out there in IB yet the sheer numbers making this amount is small. Also those are forecasted data in the first webpage.

On the second link even the median for SENIOR partner which only top people attain is at 194K. I'll take a 4 year Gas res and take my guarenteed 300K.

precisely, consider the number of ibankers compared to the number of doctors. there isnt any specific IB school, its just undergrad or biz school. and from there to get an IB job that pays highly, you have to graduate from a top school with good marks and possibly with some connections too.

 

[Tigerstang]

Yes there are highly lucrative jobs out there in IB yet the sheer numbers making this amount is small. Also those are forecasted data in the first webpage.

On the second link even the median for SENIOR partner which only top people attain is at 194K. I'll take a 4 year Gas res and take my guarenteed 300K.

You have ignored the fact that these are in fact higher average salaries.

You talk about only the top people attaining it? I guarantee there are less gas docs out there than senior consultants. Guarantee. So you've got more people with a higher average salary.

And there are also a lot more IB's out there than gas docs too.

The simple ability to admit one is wrong is an essential element to becoming a good physician. It's okay to make mistakes.

 

[DrBowtie]

Also the bulk of these salaries are based on the bonus system. If docs got a bonus/pt treated their salaries would be inflated as well.

 

[Enginerd42]

thats true...but doesnt it take them until about 50 years old to reach that status? first they fly all sorts of cargo planes and small planes, and it takes forever to work your way up to jetliners that pay 6 figures, and the lower end of 6 figures at that, i believe.

In the past 3 years that is the case. The airline industry began increasing supply at a much faster rate than demand. Therefore, if you had to pick between airline pilot and physician, physician wins. But still... my uncle flies for DHL and makes 85K a year, and he started 12 months ago. So it's not that far off.

 

[CTSballer11]

Yes there are highly lucrative jobs out there in IB yet the sheer numbers making this amount is small. Also those are forecasted data in the first webpage.

On the second link even the median for SENIOR partner which only top people attain is at 194K. I'll take a 4 year Gas res and take my guarenteed 300K.

I will take my 5-8 yrs of surgery residency and step into my uncles practice and take my guarenteed 400K. Gotta love the job security.

 

[CTSballer11]

You have ignored the fact that these are in fact higher average salaries.

You talk about only the top people attaining it? I guarantee there are less gas docs out there than senior consultants. Guarantee. So you've got more people with a higher average salary.

And there are also a lot more IB's out there than gas docs too.

The simple ability to admit one is wrong is an essential element to becoming a good physician. It's okay to make mistakes.

If you think there are better jobs out there that make more money, why are you going into medicine?

 

[Shredder]

Salaries in Investment Banking (with bonus)
Job Level Bulge Bracket Regional Player Prerequisite
(degree/yrs experience)
First Year Analyst $60K - 110K $30K - 70K Bachelor's
Third Year Analyst $80K - 200K $70K - 150K Bachelor's
First Year Associate $125K - 235K $70K - 150K MBA
Third Year Associate $150 - 450K $120 - 250K MBA
Assistant Vice President $200K - 600K $75K - 120K 2-4 years
Vice President $250K - 800K $100K - 400K 3-6 years
Associate Director $250K - 1MM $150K - 500K 3-8 years
Director / Principal $300K - 1.2MM $200K - 600K 5-10 years
Managing Director / Partner $400K - 20MM $200K and up 7-10 years
Department head $750K - 70MM $300K and up 10+ years

sorry that pasted really ugly, its from the IB salary site that was given. to which figures are you referring? in response to the previous post, maybe he just likes med.

 

[Tigerstang]

Also the bulk of these salaries are based on the bonus system. If docs got a bonus/pt treated their salaries would be inflated as well.

Listen to what you are saying. You are justifying away why these people earn higher salaries. That is not the point of this discussion. The point is, for better or for worse, whether you like it or not, these people make higher average salaries than physicians. That was what sparked this initial debate, and that was the question being discussed. Job security, potential to reach this position, and other factors are irrelevant. The fact of the matter is, plainly and simply, doctors do not make the highest average salary of any given profession. They might represent the most guaranteed route to money - of that I am in total agreement - but that is not synonymous with highest average salary.

Do not change the parameter of the discussion to support your own claims.

 

[Tigerstang]

If you think there are better jobs out there that make more money, why are you going into medicine?

Because money is not my motivational force.

 

[Enginerd42]

Can we end this thread so I can have the time to read others? I think we've all reached the same conclusion: for an extra 4 years of schooling (after undergrad), the average MD will make more than the average anybody else? THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS!! Everyone has provided examples of these exceptions. So let's all carry on with our otherwise peacful monday night and lay our discussion to rest. What do you say friends?

 

[DrBowtie]

Well I can say that there are 1293 new gas docs pumped out every year. http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/career/0,1238,040,00.html

I can also say that there were 583,000 physicians in 2002. http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm

Find numbers about how many people in business are making 150K+

 

[CTSballer11]

Because money is not my motivational force.

That is cool. It may sound like my motivational source but that is not the case. I would have to think twice if doc's were making 50k a year.

 

[Shredder]

Listen to what you are saying. You are justifying away why these people earn higher salaries. That is not the point of this discussion. The point is, for better or for worse, whether you like it or not, these people make higher average salaries than physicians. That was what sparked this initial debate, and that was the question being discussed. Job security, potential to reach this position, and other factors are irrelevant. The fact of the matter is, plainly and simply, doctors do not make the highest average salary of any given profession. They might represent the most guaranteed route to money - of that I am in total agreement - but that is not synonymous with highest average salary.

Do not change the parameter of the discussion to support your own claims.

but it looks like youre pulling the figures out of context and citing the highest level of IB as the average IB salary. you have to account for IB as a profession, not specific ranks within the IB hierarchy. the numbers at the lower end of the IB hierarchy far outweigh the top end, so you have to take a weighted average.

 

[Tigerstang]

Salaries in Investment Banking (with bonus)
Job Level Bulge Bracket Regional Player Prerequisite
(degree/yrs experience)
First Year Analyst $60K - 110K $30K - 70K Bachelor's
Third Year Analyst $80K - 200K $70K - 150K Bachelor's
First Year Associate $125K - 235K $70K - 150K MBA
Third Year Associate $150 - 450K $120 - 250K MBA
Assistant Vice President $200K - 600K $75K - 120K 2-4 years
Vice President $250K - 800K $100K - 400K 3-6 years
Associate Director $250K - 1MM $150K - 500K 3-8 years
Director / Principal $300K - 1.2MM $200K - 600K 5-10 years
Managing Director / Partner $400K - 20MM $200K and up 7-10 years
Department head $750K - 70MM $300K and up 10+ years

sorry that pasted really ugly, its from the IB salary site that was given. to which figures are you referring? in response to the previous post, maybe he just likes med.

I was referring to assoc. director, the position one would attain with 10 years experience. Again I recognize not all people make it to this point, but it's important to not all people make a) into medical school and b) through medical school. While it might be easier for you to become a doc, for someone else is might be easier to become an associate director of a bulge bracket bank. Keep some perspective, folks.