Insincerity, selflessness, and apps

[DrBowtie]

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Listen to what you are saying. You are justifying away why these people earn higher salaries. That is not the point of this discussion. The point is, for better or for worse, whether you like it or not, these people make higher average salaries than physicians. That was what sparked this initial debate, and that was the question being discussed. Job security, potential to reach this position, and other factors are irrelevant. The fact of the matter is, plainly and simply, doctors do not make the highest average salary of any given profession. They might represent the most guaranteed route to money - of that I am in total agreement - but that is not synonymous with highest average salary.

Do not change the parameter of the discussion to support your own claims.

I am saying why they have a HIGH salary not HIGHER. Your putting words in my mouth.

 

[DrBowtie]

Your site quoted the average new MBA is 28 with 2 years experience. So the 10 year comparison mark is abit off for newly minted docs.

 

[Tigerstang]

That is cool. It may sound like my motivational source but that is not the case. I would have to think twice if doc's were making 50k a year.

I agree, I'm not pretending that having a healthy life is not an appealing factor. But as a physician, I will be making significantly less than my brother, my father, and most of my college friends. I'm aware of that. The aspect of healing, however, is really what draws me into medicine, among some of the other stated draws (mobility, less work hours, etc). And I hope that dollars aren't your only motivation, either. Because trust me, if you're working hard enough to get into a med school, despite what others on this forum might suggest, you can definitely find easier, quicker ways of making dough.

 

[dilated]

You have ignored the fact that these are in fact higher average salaries.

You talk about only the top people attaining it? I guarantee there are less gas docs out there than senior consultants. Guarantee. So you've got more people with a higher average salary.

And there are also a lot more IB's out there than gas docs too.

The simple ability to admit one is wrong is an essential element to becoming a good physician. It's okay to make mistakes.

And CEOs have higher salaries than both - so we should just all become CEOs. You have successfully ignored both the difficulties of entry and degree of attrition in IB versus medicine. Good luck landing that bulge bracket job with your 4.0 from Podunk U. What % of analysts make it to VP, where they can start outearning docs by a real margin? Hint: low. IB and medicine are apples and oranges.

Furthermore the entire argument is a straw man anyway: virtually nobody makes this decision based solely on salary rather than the actual work that will be done. Few IB people would be happy as doctors and vice versa and it is not terribly difficult to figure out which category you fall into. One could easily decide that the work of medicine is "for them" while not being overly altruistic.

 

[Shredder]

And CEOs have higher salaries than both - so we should just all become CEOs. You have successfully ignored both the difficulties of entry and degree of attrition in IB versus medicine. Good luck landing that bulge bracket job with your 4.0 from Podunk U. What % of analysts make it to VP, where they can start outearning docs by a real margin? Hint: low. IB and medicine are apples and oranges.

Furthermore the entire argument is a straw man anyway: virtually nobody makes this decision based solely on salary rather than the actual work that will be done. Few IB people would be happy as doctors and vice versa and it is not terribly difficult to figure out which category you fall into.

yeah i was also thinking of proposing, why dont we all just shoot to become hotshot CEOs

 

[Enginerd42]

And CEOs have higher salaries than both - so we should just all become CEOs. You have successfully ignored both the difficulties of entry and degree of attrition in IB versus medicine. Good luck landing that bulge bracket job with your 4.0 from Podunk U. What % of analysts make it to VP, where they can start outearning docs by a real margin? Hint: low. IB and medicine are apples and oranges.

Furthermore the entire argument is a straw man anyway: virtually nobody makes this decision based solely on salary rather than the actual work that will be done. Few IB people would be happy as doctors and vice versa and it is not terribly difficult to figure out which category you fall into. One could easily decide that the work of medicine is "for them" while not being overly altruistic.

Did you forget to read the last 3 pages of this thread?

 

[Tigerstang]

Good luck landing that bulge bracket job with your 4.0 from Podunk U.

Haha, tell that to my state school bro and the alumni from his school all over wall street 😉

it's a common misconception that banks only open their doors to ivy leaguers. they're looking for capable, competent people, regardless of UG. the reason most kids come from the ivies is because that's where they do most of their recruiting. when the state schooler takes the initiative to apply, he or she is usually quite surprised by the response.

 

[Shredder]

Did you forget to read the last 3 pages of this thread?

i thought the his first paragraph was well said. it seems like the highest echelon of IB is being compared to the whole of medicine

 

[DrBowtie]

Tiger do you agree the 10 year experience is not on par with a newly full boarded doc? A gas doc would be 30 making only four years experience for your MBA who was only 28 with 2 years experience. This is according to your site.

 

[Tigerstang]

Tiger do you agree the 10 year experience is not on par with a newly full boarded doc? A gas doc would be 30 making only four years experience for your MBA who was only 28 with 2 years experience. This is according to your site.

Brett, I already told you the site was 12 years old. I'm sorry I can't find more up to date data, but to be honest I don't really care. Y'all will realize this when you enter the working world and see that, after insurance and whatnot, your college friends are making a heck of a lot more than you...

 

[Enginerd42]

i thought the his first paragraph was well said. it seems like the highest echelon of IB is being compared to the whole of medicine

The first 6 or 7 words were intelligent. But everything else, continued to erode this conversation from its original foundation. Hint: last page, TIgress' post, towards the bottom

 

[CTSballer11]

I agree, I'm not pretending that having a healthy life is not an appealing factor. But as a physician, I will be making significantly less than my brother, my father, and most of my college friends. I'm aware of that. The aspect of healing, however, is really what draws me into medicine, among some of the other stated draws (mobility, less work hours, etc). And I hope that dollars aren't your only motivation, either. Because trust me, if you're working hard enough to get into a med school, despite what others on this forum might suggest, you can definitely find easier, quicker ways of making dough.

Money is not my motivational source. My uncle is a surgeon and I have seen first hand some of the cool things he does. He happens to really love his job, and on top of it all he makes a lot of money.

 

[Tigerstang]

The first 6 or 7 words were intelligent. But everything else, continued to erode this conversation from its original foundation. Hint: last page, TIgress' post, towards the bottom

Hey dude, I'm Tigerstang not Tigress 🙂. From what I understand she is a she. I'm a he, last I checked. 😛

 

[DrBowtie]

HAHAHAHA and your done with that statement. Further banned from the thread.

 

[Tigerstang]

Money is not my motivational source. My uncle is a surgeon and I have seen first hand some of the cool things he does. He happens to really love his job, and on top of it all he makes a lot of money.

Then in that case right on, brotha and best of luck. I plan to enter oncology, so after you cut 'em, send 'em over to me 🙂

 

[Tigerstang]

HAHAHAHA and your done with that statement. Further banned from the thread.

I'm sorry I just have to ask, how old are you?

 

[Shredder]

Brett, I already told you the site was 12 years old. I'm sorry I can't find more up to date data, but to be honest I don't really care. Y'all will realize this when you enter the working world and see that, after insurance and whatnot, your college friends are making a heck of a lot more than you...

some of them will be making more, vast majority not. anyway i will never dispute that if you want to make 'uge money, meds not the way to go. 'stang, want to join the md/mba camp? i figure it will let me have the best of both worlds. tigress...heheh

as for the original point of the thread, well digressions happen. its a very loungelike phenomenon. the alternative is a dead thread or starting a new thread, so might as well continue digressing while the subject is being discussed.

 

[Enginerd42]

Hey dude, I'm Tigerstang not Tigress 🙂. From what I understand she is a she. I'm a he, last I checked. 😛

My bad.

Brett, thanks to your quick reply, I can't figure out if you're attempting to mock me for a spelling error or making fun of somebody else because the shame has set in.

 

[DrBowtie]

99% of college students will not enter IB (even if I conceded the IB argument which I won't). So I still don't get where you get off saying my college friends will be better off. I showed you the data for lawyers, other business sectors. You can look up engineers yourself. Your just not being practical. You need to concede that DOCTORS WILL MAKE MORE THAN 99% of college graduates.

 

[DrBowtie]

My bad.

Brett, thanks to your quick reply, I can't figure out if you're attempting to mock me for a spelling error or making fun of somebody else because the shame has set in.

Engineer, sorry bout that. I always click quick reply thinking it will be sequnetial then can't edit in the quote.

 

[Enginerd42]

99% of college students will not enter IB (even if I conceded the IB argument which I won't). So I still don't get where you get off saying my college friends will be better off. I showed you the data for lawyers, other business sectors. You can look up engineers yourself. Your just not being practical. You need to concede that DOCTORS WILL MAKE MORE THAN 99% of college graduates.

Who wants to point out the error in this statement? It's too easy for me, and too simple to spend time discussing.

Edit: Thanks for the apology, I still feel like this thread has digressed to $hit. Nobody knows what the other poster is trying to say and they're only trying to prove their own point. So I apologize if I've offended anyone (ahem, Brett).

 

[Shredder]

Who wants to point out the error in this statement? It's too easy for me, and too simple to spend time discussing

good eye

 

[Tigerstang]

some of them will be making more, vast majority not. anyway i will never dispute that if you want to make 'uge money, meds not the way to go. 'stang, want to join the md/mba camp? i figure it will let me have the best of both worlds. tigress...heheh

as for the original point of the thread, well digressions happen. its a very loungelike phenomenon. the alternative is a dead thread or starting a new thread, so might as well continue digressing while the subject is being discussed.

I actually might pursue and MD/MBA, because I'd like to fix some of the institutional problems with healthcare. More likely I'll get an MPP/A, though, because I'm hoping to enter politics (probably in an appointed fashion, because us brown people don't often win elections - i am not catholic like mr bobby jindal, so my chances are slim, especially here in the dirty dirty). I'm debating between MPP/MPA or MBA, because frankly I think I could accomplish the goal with either degree....

 

[DrBowtie]

In the heat of typing, I make mistakes.

 

[thackl]

There was nothing about altruism in my PS or in my interviews. I said "I truly think I'll enjoy being a Dr" and when asked about money, I said "I wouldn't be leaving a comfortable career as and Engineer and up-rooting my family if there was no financial reward".

 

[CTSballer11]

Then in that case right on, brotha and best of luck. I plan to enter oncology, so after you cut 'em, send 'em over to me 🙂

No problem bro'.

 

[Shredder]

I actually might pursue and MD/MBA, because I'd like to fix some of the institutional problems with healthcare. More likely I'll get an MPP/A, though, because I'm hoping to enter politics (probably in an appointed fashion, because us brown people don't often win elections - i am not catholic like mr bobby jindal, so my chances are slim, especially here in the dirty dirty). I'm debating between MPP/MPA or MBA, because frankly I think I could accomplish the goal with either degree....

hmm you could attack politics from the med or biz angle, a la frist or bloomberg. both wealthy as hell, so maybe you can buy up some election and represent brownies. id consider joining you but i dont like the public sector, thus MBA which is symbolic for me.

 

[Enginerd42]

In the heat of typing, I make mistakes.

We're all human, no worries. That quote would look great as one of your signatures though, right under the part about how what you write is your own opinion, unless supported by a source.

 

[Shredder]

There was nothing about altruism in my PS or in my interviews. I said "I truly think I'll enjoy being a Dr" and when asked about money, I said "I wouldn't be leaving a comfortable career as and Engineer and up-rooting my family if there was no financial reward".

i dont think non-trads face the same issues that trads face. since were young were treated differently.

 

[Shredder]

We're all human, no worries. That quote would look great as one of your signatures though, right under the part about how what you write is your own opinion, unless supported by a source.

gotta admit, it was very humorous in a subtle way, i didnt catch it initially. wow the sig would grow quite large in that case.

 

[Tigerstang]

hmm you could attack politics from the med or biz angle, a la frist or bloomberg. both wealthy as hell, so maybe you can buy up some election and represent brownies. id consider joining you but i dont like the public sector, thus MBA which is symbolic for me.

Exactly, that's my game plan. And you're just like my uncle, and MD/MHA (basically same as MBA). When I asked him why he didn't run for office (he's a big GOP donor, so he'd have a lot of institutional support), he said quite simply: I don't want to take a pay cut. But I realize it's more than that for people like him and you, and I respect that. Having your entire life on the ****ing news isn't something most people enjoy. I just saw on MSNBC the other day all of Roberts' financial holdings---that very much makes me wince 😉. But either way, you don't have to enter the public sector to make a difference. Hell, politics can't happen without wealthy donors. Sorry for the ramble, it's late 🙂

 

[DrBowtie]

Tigerstang, I too think you should join the MD/MBA camp. We can have fiesty threads all day long in our own lonely forum.

 

[Tigerstang]

Tigerstang, I too think you should join the MD/MBA camp. We can have fiesty threads all day long in our own lonely forum.

Is there free beer?

 

[DrBowtie]

Is there free beer?

and food.

 

[Enginerd42]

gotta admit, it was very humorous in a subtle way, i didnt catch it initially. wow the sig would grow quite large in that case.

Something has to counterbalance the signature that is the gratification of BrettBachelor, right? I mean, there has to be a disclaimer that also compensates for "the heat of the moment" situations. I humbly request and addendum to your signature Brett. (ok, it's late, I apologize for the ever-decreasing quality of my posts before I hit the hay)

 

[Shredder]

Exactly, that's my game plan. And you're just like my uncle, and MD/MHA (basically same as MBA). When I asked him why he didn't run for office (he's a big GOP donor, so he'd have a lot of institutional support), he said quite simply: I don't want to take a pay cut. But I realize it's more than that for people like him and you, and I respect that. Having your entire life on the ****ing news isn't something most people enjoy. I just saw on MSNBC the other day all of Roberts' financial holdings---that very much makes me wince 😉. But either way, you don't have to enter the public sector to make a difference. Hell, politics can't happen without wealthy donors. Sorry for the ramble, it's late 🙂

good ramble, GOP donor woohoo. ill keep an eye out for you, id love to do heavy lobbying and donating. public scrutiny, yeah thats a bummer, so annoying i imagine.

brett ha were such mba crusaders. i feel so much pressure to live up to expectations! sdn has taken over AIM as my means of communication. maybe ill start a thread on sdn vs messengers sometime. i find myself better able to connect with ppl here than on messenger. i guess it is indicative of med school, when the only friends are med classmates who know your situation and motives.

 

[Tigerstang]

and food.

you sold me.

 

[DrBowtie]

Shredder, our army is growing in numbers. About 7 strong.

 

[Shredder]

Shredder, our army is growing in numbers. About 7 strong.

army...excellent

 

[CTSballer11]

hmm you could attack politics from the med or biz angle, a la frist or bloomberg. both wealthy as hell, so maybe you can buy up some election and represent brownies. id consider joining you but i dont like the public sector, thus MBA which is symbolic for me.

Frist made some good coin as a cardiac surgeon over at vanderbilt, but the real wealth comes from his father, and now his brother. He is probably making less as a senator than he was as a surgeon.

PS: Do you think frist will capture the republican nomination. He comes off as socially conservative but his new stance on stem cell research changes things. I am an independent and I think it will help him win the moderate republicans and independent vote. I have heard that many christian groups are going to hammer during the primaries.

 

[Tigerstang]

good ramble, GOP donor woohoo. ill keep an eye out for you, id love to do heavy lobbying and donating. public scrutiny, yeah thats a bummer, so annoying i imagine.

yeah believe it or not, despite all my ramblings on this thread about compassion, altruism, etc., i'm quite the hardcore republican. economically, that is. socially i am a flaaaaaming liberal (smoke up, kill babies, have sex with people of the same gender, i don't give a crap)*. i guess that makes me a libertarian, but i vote GOP and am too commital to be a libertarian 🙂

*-please note this parenthetical, and most of my parentheticals are jokes that represent extremes of my belief. chill the **** out.

 

[DrBowtie]

Tigerstang, I think we fought so much since we were so much alike. As you can see from my avatar, I too follow the libertarian ways.

 

[Enginerd42]

yeah believe it or not, despite all my ramblings on this thread about compassion, altruism, etc., i'm quite the hardcore republican. economically, that is. socially i am a flaaaaaming liberal (smoke up, kill babies, have sex with people of the same gender, i don't give a crap)*. i guess that makes me a libertarian, but i vote GOP and am too commital to be a libertarian 🙂

*-please note this parenthetical, and most of my parentheticals are jokes that represent extremes of my belief. chill the **** out.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but either way, it sounds like you've started hittin the bong tonight. This is a side of you we haven't heard before. So if the parenthetical is a joke, does it still represent the extreme of your belief?

 

[Tigerstang]

Frist made some good coin as a cardiac surgeon over at vanderbilt, but the real wealth comes from his father, and now his brother. He is probably making less as a senator than he was as a surgeon.

PS: Do you think frist will capture the republican nomination. He comes off as socially conservative but his new stance on stem cell research changes things. I am an independent and I think it will help him win the moderate republicans and independent vote. I have heard that many christian groups are going to hammer during the primaries.

That's true about the finances - I posted something similar earlier in this thread. I know a lot about ole Bill. Went to his alma matter, was his son's RA, and have been to the ole boy's house (which is ridonculous, btw).

And no, I don't think he has a chance. I'd love to see him as prez, but he lacks charisma. We all saw what happens to a candidate without charisma. cough al gore cough.

 

[Tigerstang]

Tigerstang, I think we fought so much since we were so much alike. As you can see from my avatar, I too follow the libertarian ways.

oh yes, love the tucker. hate the bow-ties, love the tucker.

 

[CTSballer11]

Tigerstang, I think we fought so much since we were so much alike. As you can see from my avatar, I too follow the libertarian ways.

Why did tucker carlson leave crossfire? I am an independent, I voted for Bush,I probably lean right.

 

[Tigerstang]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but either way, it sounds like you've started hittin the bong tonight. This is a side of you we haven't heard before. So if the parenthetical is a joke, does it still represent the extreme of your belief?

yup, still represents the extreme of my belief.

i didn't inhale.

just kidding.

now the question your asking yourself - is he kidding meaning he didn't inhale and in fact does smoke a buttload of cheeba, or is he kidding meaning he doesn't smoke pot?

 

[DrBowtie]

Why did tucker carlson leave crossfire? I am an independent, I voted for Bush,I probably lean right.

He got his own gig on MSNBC.

 

[Enginerd42]

Tigerstang, I think we fought so much since we were so much alike. As you can see from my avatar, I too follow the libertarian ways.

Ok, now I'm confused... that's not you? I guess I don't pay enough attention to the liberatrian party! I always associated the things you said with the picture of the guy below your name.

 

[Shredder]

Why did tucker carlson leave crossfire? I am an independent, I voted for Bush,I probably lean right.

the cnn execs werent feeling him i think, i read some about it. blasted jon stewart mightve had a part in it.