Institutional Action-Need Advice

[DZ_2themax]

An incident occurred during the first semester of my freshman year in a chem class. I shared an answer on an extra credit assignment with another student and the answer was very wrong. We received 0s on the assignment and signed a letter of guilt. I still received an A in the class. This is kept within my school's internal record and does not show up on my record nor on my transcript. After a while of contemplating, I have decided that the best thing to do is to include it on my application. I understand that this hurts my application tremendously but it is what it is and lying would be stupid.

I am wondering if y'all could give me some advice about what to put in my statement about it. Also, should I ask my professor (not the same one) to write something in his LOR such as "Student has come a long way since then,,blah blah, would never do something like this again, has learned a lot from this"? Same question applies to the optional essay-should I talk about it there? In other words, is it better to bring more attention and write a lot about it or just include it where it is asked?


Thanks y'all.

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[Rhabdoviridae]

I would really try to avoid reporting this if at all possible. If it is only on the school's internal record and not on anything official that your school will transmit to AMCAS, you should not bring it up at all (in your personal statement, etc). Regardless of whether or not it was an extra credit assignment and getting caught didn't affect your grade, it will be seen as cheating if you report it. This will severely hurt your admission chances. Best not to take any risks if you don't need to.

 

[Goro]

An incident occurred during the first semester of my sophomore year in O-chem class. I shared an answer on an extra credit assignment with another student and the answer was very wrong. We received 0s on the assignment and signed a letter of guilt. I still received an A in the class. This is kept within my school's internal record and does not show up on my record nor on my transcript. After a while of contemplating, I have decided that the best thing to do is to include it on my application. I understand that this hurts my application tremendously but it is what it is and lying would be stupid.

I am wondering if y'all could give me some advice about what to put in my statement about it. Also, should I ask my professor (not the same one) to write something in his LOR such as "Student has come a long way since then,,blah blah, would never do something like this again, has learned a lot from this"? Same question applies to the optional essay-should I talk about it there? In other words, is it better to bring more attention and write a lot about it or just include it where it is asked?

I'm a traditional student with a 3.85 GPA, 3.9 sGPA , 511 MCAT and a student-athlete with average other extracurriculars.

Thanks y'all.

This sounds like it's NOT an IA, and as such, doesn't need to be reported. But it's up to you to make sure that this is indeed the case.
And as an FYI, I have seen people rejected after being inadvertently outed by LOR writers, who say things like "DZ2 has grown so much as a person since the cheating incident"

 

[DZ_2themax]

This sounds like it's NOT an IA, and as such, doesn't need to be reported. But it's up to you to make sure that this is indeed the case.
And as an FYI, I have seen people rejected after being inadvertently outed by LOR writers, who say things like "DZ2 has grown so much as a person since the cheating incident"

Why wouldn't this be an IA? We were given 0s and had to sign a form of guilt for being academically dishonest. I'm confused. I just don't wanna exclude it and get screwed if they find out, but I don't want to mention it if it doesn't need to be.

 

[JPmoleymole]

The whole concept of IAs seems kinda dumb when there are varying levels of discretion between undergrads

 

[DZ_2themax]

This goes to the question of what is technically an IA.

Was this a letter of guilt that the professor gave to sign or did it come from any administrator, advisor, assistant dean?
If this is kept in the school's "internal record" as in a centralized student file or just be the professor or departmemt?
Did this get reviewed by any "judicial" or other process? Did you have to explain or admit wrong doing to someone other than the prof?

Thanks for the reply.
I did not have to report it to anyone else and there was no judicial process. The offense was considered "non-judicial".
It was a form from the school. I went to the Dean's office and they had the form in a file cabinet, so I assume it came from the Deans office. I talked to the Dean and she said that she is not allowed to report it to graduate schools. At the time I did not know that non-record offenses had to be reported, so I didn't ask her any other questions and assumed that I was fine. Later, I read the application question and realized that my situation is probably considered an IA. Should I ask whether it is technically an IA?

 

[Rhabdoviridae]

Thanks for the reply.
It was a form from the school. I went to the Dean's office and they had the form in a file cabinet, so I assume it came from the Deans office. I talked to the Dean and she said that she is not allowed to report it to graduate schools. At the time I did not know that non-record offenses had to be reported, so I didn't ask her any other questions and assumed that I was fine. Later, I read the question and realized that my situation is probably considered an IA. Should I ask whether it is technically an IA?

There is your answer. It is not an IA nor do you need to report it. Ask you school to satisfy your concerns if you want, but based on the info you gave this doesn't seem to be the case. Please do not let your paranoia on this issue force you into incriminating yourself unnecessarily. Such a decision could honestly cost you the entire cycle. The reason AAMCAS says that you "need" to report all incidents even if they aren't recorded is to scare you into giving up potentially incriminating information that they cannot realistically find out about on their own.

 

[DZ_2themax]

There is your answer. It is not an IA nor do you need to report it. Ask you school to satisfy your concerns if you want, but based on the info you gave this doesn't seem to be the case. Please do not let your paranoia on this issue force you into incriminating yourself unnecessarily. Such a decision could honestly cost you the entire cycle. The reason AAMCAS says that you "need" to report all incidents even if they aren't recorded is to scare you into giving up potentially incriminating information that they cannot realistically find out about on their own.

Thanks for the input. You're right I am very paranoid. I just don't want this to come back and screw me over. Anyone else have an opinion on whether this is an IA?

 

[efle]

I talked to the Dean and she said that she is not allowed to report it to graduate schools

I would not report this in your app.

 

[deleted781806]

The only thing that might come back to bite you is that while the Administration might have said they cannot report it, they might be referring to the fact they cannot report it *without your consent/release*. My UG does this, while the school's policy is that all IA proceedings are confidential and will not be reported to schools if asked, they can and will release that information if you consent to its release to schools. Some medical schools require you to submit such a statement from the Administration, on top of reporting it on AMCAS. If you don't report on AMCAS and it comes up in this released statement, you will get burned and your admission can be rescinded.

I'd second Gonnif's advice to check with your Dean to see if your school considers it an IA or not, that is what you need to base your actions off of.

(Edit: Removed reference to MCW and BU as their specific cases might not apply, but nonetheless some schools do exist that require a Dean's Letter for conduct)

 

[libertyyne]

I will be the dissenting opinion here and say report it. Some secondaries even state " even if it will not show up on your transcript" or "Even if your school doesn't disclose it" . There are also things like dean's certification letters that certain schools do that dig for this information. Better off reporting it upfront rather then some school rescinding your acceptance due to some technical definition interpretation of IA. I dont think all schools will outright reject you. I think the way you explained it while being forthcoming is the way to go in the app.

 

[Rhabdoviridae]

OP, I'll be honest, as a medical student I probably know much less about the admissions process than I think I do. That being said, you mentioned you are concerned about this incident coming back to haunt you. In my best estimate, I would say the chances of it affecting you negatively (given the confidential nature of what happened) are less than 1%. However, if you report it, I would say the chances are 90-95% that it severely weakens your candidacy. The admissions process is a game and you need do whatever you can to make yourself look as strong as possible, even if that means taking some necessary (small) chances.

 

[DZ_2themax]

Thanks everyone for the input. I am in the process of contacting the Dean of Students. I will let y'all know what she says.

 

[JPmoleymole]

The only thing that might come back to bite you is that while the Administration might have said they cannot report it, they might be referring to the fact they cannot report it *without your consent/release*. My UG does this, while the school's policy is that all IA proceedings are confidential and will not be reported to schools if asked, they can and will release that information if you consent to its release to schools. Some medical schools require you to submit such a statement from the Administration, on top of reporting it on AMCAS (Boston University and Medical College of Wisconsin do this, off the top of my head). If you don't report on AMCAS and it comes up in this released statement, you will get burned and your admission can be rescinded.

I'd second Gonnif's advice to check with your Dean to see if your school considers it an IA or not, that is what you need to base your actions off of.

Incorrect. MCW only require a dean's statement if you have indicated that you have an IA on your primary or secondary

 

[DZ_2themax]

OP, I'll be honest, as a medical student I probably know much less about the admissions process than I think I do. That being said, you mentioned you are concerned about this incident coming back to haunt you. In my best estimate, I would say the chances of it affecting you negatively (given the confidential nature of what happened) are less than 1%. However, if you report it, I would say the chances are 90-95% that it severely weakens your candidacy. The admissions process is a game and you need do whatever you can to make yourself look as strong as possible, even if that means taking some necessary (small) chances.

Its this 1% chance that makes me scared. Even if I exclude it and get accepted, the emotional stress that it will cause me throughout medical school would be miserable. I am not much of a risk taker, especially not with something as serious as this. But I do understand what you are saying, and am worried that if I mention it, I won't get in anywhere, which would be devastating.

 

[deleted781806]

The admissions process is a game and you need do whatever you can to make yourself look as strong as possible, even if that means taking some necessary (small) chances.

Yes but you are also trying to enter into a profession that has one of the highest standards of ethical conduct, especially concerning honesty. You really shouldn't be starting the journey with the question of "how can I get away with lying on my application?". It's not something that should be taken lightly.

Incorrect.

Okay, I stand corrected on the MCW point, however there are still schools that will require you to send in a letter like the one that I and liberty described, which would absolutely obliterate your chances at admission if you did not disclose the event on your primary application.

OP, the only thing you can do is ask your Dean to see if they classify it as an IA or not. If they do, then you are required to disclose it on your AMCAS application per AAMC guidelines and not conforming to those guidelines can result in a medical school rescinding your admission/degree at almost any point of your career (as a student or post-graduation). If your UG Dean does not classify what occurred to you as an IA, then you are free to omit it from your application. But you need to get that clarification from your UG Administration, it will make the choice for you.

 

[McDreamy123]

Pretty black and white---request your official academic transcript. Look it over. If there is mention of it on there then report it. If not don't.

Edit: saw you spoke to dean and they assured you it would not be reported. Thank your lucky stars and don't ever do something like this again. But definitely don't report it on your apps.

 

[deleted781806]

If there is mention of it on there then report it. If not don't.

Incorrect. You can still get burned if you fail to report the IA, even if it doesn't show up on your transcript.

"You must answer Yes to this question if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action by any college or medical school for unacceptable academic performance or
conduct violation, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment or require you to withdraw. You must answer Yes even if the action does not appear on or has been deleted or expunged from your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition." -AMCAS Manual