Institutional Action

[Pancho Villa]

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well, basically, i live in the dorms at my school, so technically my university is my ISP. early in my sophmore year, my university decided to take institutional action because i downloaded a movie using P2P software (emule, specifically). i took full responsibility and have moved on. (no more downloading and such). i just have a couple questions.

1. how badly will this affect my chances?
2. do med schools run a check before interview/acceptance/matriculation with the undergrad university's student record to see if a student is in "good standing"?
3. since it isn't reported in my transcript, should i report it? (i plan to report it and say i've learned my lesson, blah blah blah....but if there's no chance of the school finding out, the evil little voice in the back of my head keeps telling me not to report it)

 

[astrife]

I do not really know the answer to your question, however, I am curious to know how your school knew that you downloaded the movie?

 

[mac_kin]

I do not really know the answer to your question, however, I am curious to know how your school knew that you downloaded the movie?

me too


I'm guessing since everything's connected together they can see what each student downloads through the network. But isn't this bordering on your rights and privacy??

 

[Pancho Villa]

I do not really know the answer to your question, however, I am curious to know how your school knew that you downloaded the movie?

here are two important facts:
1. my university is my ISP
2. emule (and several other P2P networks) work by sharing files at the same time you download them. (sharing is illegal, downloading is not, by my understanding)

ever since the big crackdown on P2P networks, the big companies have been scouring the internet trying to find people sharing their copyrighted crap. well, i was downloading Jackass:The movie (ironic, huh?), and Paramount pictures did not like that. They hire companies to scour the P2P networks and find users who are sharing their property. They get the IP address from the P2P software, look up the ISP who owns that IP address, and then send an email to the ISP reporting that a certain IP address of theirs is sharing copyrighted material. they threaten with lawsuits, etc, and demand that the ISP order the user to delete the material and to stop sharing it. at that point, my ISP (my university) got scared when they saw the words "legal action," and **** all over me.

whew...that's how i got caught.

 

[astrife]

Wow! I never knew that. I'll think twice before I ever download "illegal" material again.

 

[DrBowtie]

here are two important facts:
1. my university is my ISP
2. emule (and several other P2P networks) work by sharing files at the same time you download them. (sharing is illegal, downloading is not, by my understanding)

ever since the big crackdown on P2P networks, the big companies have been scouring the internet trying to find people sharing their copyrighted crap. well, i was downloading Jackass:The movie (ironic, huh?), and Paramount pictures did not like that. They hire companies to scour the P2P networks and find users who are sharing their property. They get the IP address from the P2P software, look up the ISP who owns that IP address, and then send an email to the ISP reporting that a certain IP address of theirs is sharing copyrighted material. they threaten with lawsuits, etc, and demand that the ISP order the user to delete the material and to stop sharing it. at that point, my ISP (my university) got scared when they saw the words "legal action," and **** all over me.

whew...that's how i got caught.

Hmm...People at my school got busted since they saw how much bandwidth you were using.

 

[Pancho Villa]

Hmm...People at my school got busted since they saw how much bandwidth you were using.

that makes sense, too. but my ISP forwarded me the email that they got from paramount.

 

[8744]

You don't say. (Feverishly deleting Mexican midget porn)

 

[Wookey]

I know if you cheat you get a letter from the dean in your file. Which may be on your transcript also. But you also get a talk-to from the dean and you sign a document.

What kind of "institutional action" was taken? Did you sign anything? If not then, downloading stuff is sort of on par with minor offenses like drinking on campus and I doubt would be recorded.

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

here are two important facts:
1. my university is my ISP
2. emule (and several other P2P networks) work by sharing files at the same time you download them. (sharing is illegal, downloading is not, by my understanding)

I was never clear on this. It seemed like everyone had something different to say on the matter. In my understanding, both are illegal, and although legislative action can be held against you, no legislative action can be held against the record company for releasing an album at $18.99 with only one good song on it.

At least now we have iTunes and can buy songs for 99 cents... although even that has issues.

What I think was REALLY ridiculous is legislation that banned posting guitar tabs online.

 

[Wookey]

What I think was REALLY ridiculous is legislation that banned posting guitar tabs online.

Yeah that's lame. I don't think that will fly in court. The only case would be if a person makes straight copies of a tab book and posts it. Otherwise it's just an interpretation of how they play a song on guitar.

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

Yeah that's lame. I don't think that will fly in court. The only case would be if a person makes straight copies of a tab book and posts it. Otherwise it's just an interpretation of how they play a song on guitar.

It has already affected sites like
The PowerTabs Archive
unfortunately

 

[Pancho Villa]

I know if you cheat you get a letter from the dean in your file. Which may be on your transcript also. But you also get a talk-to from the dean and you sign a document.

What kind of "institutional action" was taken? Did you sign anything? If not then, downloading stuff is sort of on par with minor offenses like drinking on campus and I doubt would be recorded.

i had to sign a form saying i plead "guilty" to the charge. the "sanctions" for the offense were one semester with no internet access and i had to attend an ethics seminar.

 

[Rafa]

I think the question among all SDN i-geeks is: why were you using something other than bittorrent? 😎

To answer your Q though, I don't think this will significantly affect your chances of getting in. Just don't get caught again between now and graduation.

 

[Dr.McDreamy]

I think the question among all SDN i-geeks is: why were you using something other than bittorrent?

they'd still know actually. I had a friend who used it and got caught. they called him in and examined his laptop. Big Brother is always watching.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

You don't say. (Feverishly deleting Mexican midget porn)

I thought you said that footage was from your deployment to Guadelajara...."field training exercise" my ass!

 

[Pancho Villa]

yeah...bittorrent is just as bad. i know of at least 3 other people living in the dorms that got caught using bittorrent (i met them at the ethics seminars)

 

[rajad10]

.

 

[Law2Doc]

here are two important facts:
1. my university is my ISP
2. emule (and several other P2P networks) work by sharing files at the same time you download them. (sharing is illegal, downloading is not, by my understanding)

ever since the big crackdown on P2P networks, the big companies have been scouring the internet trying to find people sharing their copyrighted crap. well, i was downloading Jackass:The movie (ironic, huh?), and Paramount pictures did not like that. They hire companies to scour the P2P networks and find users who are sharing their property. They get the IP address from the P2P software, look up the ISP who owns that IP address, and then send an email to the ISP reporting that a certain IP address of theirs is sharing copyrighted material. they threaten with lawsuits, etc, and demand that the ISP order the user to delete the material and to stop sharing it. at that point, my ISP (my university) got scared when they saw the words "legal action," and **** all over me.

whew...that's how i got caught.

Bear in mind that regardless of whether your university is going to do anything about it, you can probablystill be charged by the government with violating a federal copyright, and it's up to Paramount, not your university as to how far they want to push this.

 

[xanthomondo]

I think the question among all SDN i-geeks is: why were you using something other than bittorrent? 😎

To answer your Q though, I don't think this will significantly affect your chances of getting in. Just don't get caught again between now and graduation.

Shareaza > Bittorrent

 

[Skaterbabe74]

Bear in mind that regardless of whether your university is going to do anything about it, you can probablystill be charged by the government with violating a federal copyright, and it's up to Paramount, not your university as to how far they want to push this.

They could but they probably won't. I had the same issue once while I was living on campus. Mine didn't result in institutional action, but our IT guy wasn't very happy with me lol. He forwarded me Paramount's email, and told me to delete everything, which I did, and not do it again. I just became more careful about what stuff I actually downloaded lol. Paramount can see if the same IP address is used in relation to that download so once the user deletes everything, and doesn't share it anymore Paramount gets the action they really want. Paramount would much rather go after some P2P than a single college student for economic reasons.

 

[Rafa]

About the possibility of Paramount trying to sue your pants off...

they can, but 99.999999% of the time, they never do. I wouldn't worry about future suits from the RIAA/MPAA/FBI once you've settled matters with suit and school in question.

 

[Law2Doc]

About the possibility of Paramount trying to sue your pants off...

they can, but 99.999999% of the time, they never do. I wouldn't worry about future suits from the RIAA/MPAA/FBI once you've settled matters with suit and school in question.

To get the result they want, the various industries have to go after a couple of kids each year, make a highly publicized example of them, to put the fear in the rest. Several college students have been sued and prosecuted for music and video pirating over the years, and their families have had to settle for thousands, but the majority just get the old cease and desist letters. So the risk is low, but not nonexistant.

 

[Pancho Villa]

so do you think that since P2P networks are sort of a common thing that adcomms will not view it as a serious offense?

 

[Wookey]

I imagine they're pretty old and too busy to keep up to date on internet technology.

 

[Trismegistus4]

In all this discussion of file sharing, the more interesting question raised by the OP has been ignored, and that is, do you report something if there is no permanent record? The help file on the AMCAS website reads "You must answer Yes even if the action does not appear on or has been deleted from your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition", but if it does not appear on any records, how could they ever know?

I was the recipient of some minor "institutional action", but it was so long ago I honestly don't remember exactly what it was (the action, that is; I do remember what the offense was), and when I was applying to post-baccs, I called my college about it and they said they have no record of anything. So there's no way for me to truthfully answer AMCAS's question, because I don't remember, and my school can't remind me. Yet if I say "no", I am violating AMCAS rules!

Is there anyone out there who feels protected by internet anonymity enough to fess up to saying "no" when they did have something in their past but it wasn't on any permanent records?

 

[Pancho Villa]

bumpity bumparoo. any more thoughts?

my main question is if anyone has heard of schools checking a student's conduct record at their undergrad upon acceptance.

 

[Mr. Itchy]

Unless you do over a $1000 worth of damage over a 180 day period, it is not a criminal offense... Only civil...

I am pretty sure half the people in the medical school have done the same thing. Just talk about what you have learned and all should be fine. No one is perfect and I can't believe someone would think you are a bad person because you were downloading a movie.

 

[LizzyM]

bumpity bumparoo. any more thoughts?

my main question is if anyone has heard of schools checking a student's conduct record at their undergrad upon acceptance.

Not upon acceptance but some pre-med committee letters routinely mention that an applicant is in good standing and has no record of institutional action. If your school has a committee letter that includes this information then the cat may be out of the bag.

Then again... if the offense occurred after the letter was written....

 

[Trismegistus4]

Bump again.

What if your offenses which don't show up on any permanent record were not file sharing but rather, oh, just to take a random example, computer network hacking and drinking so much that someone called an ambulance? Just hypothetically speaking of course. I have this friend...

 

[SeventhSon]

so do you think that since P2P networks are sort of a common thing that adcomms will not view it as a serious offense?

i dont think it would be that big of a deal. not nearly as bad as academic dishonesty. i imagine a lot of adcoms have downloaded music/movies illegally themselves so the pot would be calling the kettle black if they were to look down on it.

 

[SeventhSon]

Bump again.

What if your offenses which don't show up on any permanent record were not file sharing but rather, oh, just to take a random example, computer network hacking and drinking so much that someone called an ambulance? Just hypothetically speaking of course. I have this friend...

drinking violations at my university were not an "institutional action" because drinking was a violation of the university housing contract, which is different. I talked directly to our res-dean about it when i was filling out my app

coujld be different at different places though

 

[Trismegistus4]

drinking violations at my university were not an "institutional action" because drinking was a violation of the university housing contract, which is different. I talked directly to our res-dean about it when i was filling out my app

coujld be different at different places though

My understanding, though, is that if you were punished in any way whatsoever, even if it was a mere official warning, that counts as institutional action. I had to pay a fine and attend a group counseling session for the drinking infraction. I would think that would count. But, my college says it's not on my record.