Institutional Action

[brokeninnosense]

Do you know any schools that have a problem with this? Which schools from your past experience or knowledge have additional essays or requirements for those who were subject to institutional action. I've read on Temple's website that they require a letter from the Dean of Students from the college where the IA happened. Any other schools you guys know about?

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[Ironmandoc]

You will have to explain it at any school you apply to. I'm 99% sure about that...

 

[Nymphicus]

From the AAMC AMCAS Instruction Manual:

Institutional Action
You must answer Yes to this question if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action resulting from unacceptable academic performance or a conduct violation, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment or require you to withdraw. You must answer Yes even if the action does not appear on or has been deleted from your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition.
If you answer Yes, you may use the space provided to explain; this space is 1325 characters or approximately one-quarter of a page in length.
If you are not certain whether or not you have been the subject of an institutional action, contact the registrar, student affairs officer, or other appropriate party at the institution for confirmation of your record.
Failure to provide accurate information in answering this question or, if applicable, in completing the form provided by the school, will result in an investigation. Medical schools require you to answer this question accurately and provide all relevant information. Medical schools understand that many individuals learn from the past and emerge stronger as a result. Full disclosure will enable the medical schools to more effectively evaluate this information within the context of your credentials.
Applicants who become the subject of an institutional action after certifying and submitting the AMCAS application must inform their designated medical school(s) within ten (10) business days of the date of the occurrence.

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/131750/data/2012amcasinstructionmanual.pdf




Examples of some schools that require additional letters for an IA are Temple (which you already know), Boston, and Medical College of Wisconsin. Many, many other schools will require additional information as well, often in the secondary application.

MCW http://www.mcw.edu/FileLibrary/User/pconfer/Deans_Cert_form_and_letter.pdf

 

[Ironmandoc]

Well now I am 100% sure lol

 

[brokeninnosense]

Yeah, I figured there would be a lot of explaining. That's not a problem for me. I just want to try and avoid the schools that would require me actually going back to the school and have the Dean do something.

So as of right now, there's Boston, Temple, and MC Wisconsin.

Anyone else know any or seen any secondaries with similar additional documentation for IA students?

 

[torshi]

omg...all schools would see this as a red flag. There are thousands of people applying and this is an easy way to weed out people.

 

[rickhammal20]

omg...all schools would see this as a red flag. There are thousands of people applying and this is an easy way to weed out people.

this is not good news. please tell me that most med schools dont automatically trash applications marked with IAs...i just got an IA and i dont want my app getting dumped.

 

[TheShaker]

What did you do to receive the IA if you don't mind me asking? If you slapped a professor then that's one thing but if it was for something small like littering then I don't see why they would throw out your app just for that.

 

[ucsfstudents]

We've all made mistakes. When you speak about yours, make it short, explain what you learned from it, and what you did to make up for your mistake (like teaching others about x,y,z), and what you would do differently next time. Also never make excuses, ever.

 

[LizzyM]

It you committed academic dishonesty or stole items of significant value (particularly from fellow students) or were involved in violence or sexual assault, it is pretty much "game over". If you had a carton of milk on the fire escape or hung someone's underwear from light fixture or had a display of beer bottles in your dorm room, it might be considered "no big deal". Context is everything.

 

[Sandstorm]

omg...all schools would see this as a red flag. There are thousands of people applying and this is an easy way to weed out people.

Ahahahah. Ha.

Oh...you're serious.


Just sayin...I had an IA and got multiple acceptances. So don't be dramatic.

 

[Sandstorm]

It you committed academic dishonesty or stole items of significant value (particularly from fellow students) or were involved in violence or sexual assault, it is pretty much "game over". If you had a carton of milk on the fire escape or hung someone's underwear from light fixture or had a display of beer bottles in your dorm room, it might be considered "no big deal". Context is everything.

Agree.

 

[boopitybop]

Tufts also requires a Dean's letter if you have an IA

 

[brokeninnosense]

Tufts also requires a Dean's letter if you have an IA

Thank you.. that's good to know!

 

[adimelon]

What if you have an IA for computing ethics and sexual harassment?
It sounds worse than it is. It is well explained in the essays and I have my recommenders write about it in their recommendations to support my admission.
I have a 3.91 and a 31 MCAT

 

[LizzyM]

What if you have an IA for computing ethics and sexual harassment?
It sounds worse than it is. It is well explained in the essays and I have my recommenders write about it in their recommendations to support my admission.
I have a 3.91 and a 31 MCAT

Sexual harassment... that's worse than a carton of milk on the fire escape but not as bad as stealing laptops. That said, I would vote "no". Add "computing ethics" and it doesn't seem any better when we ask the question, "Would we want this person in our community?" On the other hand, is this something like sending a dirty joke or picture by email and having it become a "big deal"? That might require a long conversation among adcom members. Your application will not be an easy one to judge but it will have to be judged. Apply more broadly than usual (25-30 schools) because you are going to strike out more often than an applicant with the same stats but no institutional action.

 

[gumdrops]

What if you have an IA for computing ethics and sexual harassment?
It sounds worse than it is. It is well explained in the essays and I have my recommenders write about it in their recommendations to support my admission.
I have a 3.91 and a 31 MCAT

I'd make sure you are completely specific about what happened and how you changed from this experience. Vagueness is going to get people's imaginations going in several ways, all of which will hurt you. From your description, my mind immediately turned to the likes of revenge porn or public humiliation of a woman. I hope I'm wrong. If I were to just read your description as an ADCOM, I'd be very, very nervous about having you in any sort of eventual position of power. Make sure you reiterate over and over what you've learned from your mistakes and that you answer any possible question that you would have of someone had you been in the ADCOM's place.

 

[adimelon]

Sexual harassment... that's worse than a carton of milk on the fire escape but not as bad as stealing laptops. That said, I would vote "no". Add "computing ethics" and it doesn't seem any better when we ask the question, "Would we want this person in our community?" On the other hand, is this something like sending a dirty joke or picture by email and having it become a "big deal"? That might require a long conversation among adcom members. Your application will not be an easy one to judge but it will have to be judged. Apply more broadly than usual (25-30 schools) because you are going to strike out more often than an applicant with the same stats but no institutional action.

So this is the story...
My freshman year I emailed a Teaching Fellow a sexually explicit message to a teaching fellow from a third party email account, pretending to be one of my friends. It was suppose to be a harmless joke but people were affected. My friend was getting in trouble for it and I owned up and took complete responsibility for it without any delay. This was truly a learning experience for me. I have worked hard ever since and have been immersed in the community. I volunteered, became a resident assistant for 2 years(my supervisor is aware of the incident and wrote about my character in her recommendation). This is an incident that happened in the end of 2007. Its been a little over 6 years and this experience has been instrumental in shaping me into what I am today.

 

[gumdrops]

So this is the story...
My freshman year I emailed a Teaching Fellow a sexually explicit email from an my friend's email address as a joke. My friend was getting in trouble for it and I owned up and took complete responsibility for it. This was truly a learning experience for me. I have worked hard ever since and have been immersed in the community. I volunteered, became a resident assistant for 2 years(my supervisor is aware of the incident and wrote about my character in her recommendation). This is an incident that happened in the end of 2007. Its been a little over 6 years and this experience has been instrumental in shaping me into what I am today.

I'm not an ADCOM (Goro, gyngyn or LizzyM should weigh in here) but as a woman, my question is whether this has changed your attitude towards women at all. It sounds like you've learned to be a much more responsible and conscientious person, which is great. If I were working with you as a resident or a fellow or attending, would I have to worry about your sexually harassing women on the job? This could mean anything from making inappropriate comments, asking students or patients out, lashing out at women when you're frustrated, etc. That's the concern I'd imagine you have to snuff out.

 

[Goro]

Six years is enough time to redeem yourself, and if you have female LOR writers explain the incident, as well as you, and you 100% own it, then I don't see it as an issue.

So this is the story...
My freshman year I emailed a Teaching Fellow a sexually explicit message to a teaching fellow from a third party email account, pretending to be one of my friends. It was suppose to be a harmless joke but people were affected. My friend was getting in trouble for it and I owned up and took complete responsibility for it without any delay. This was truly a learning experience for me. I have worked hard ever since and have been immersed in the community. I volunteered, became a resident assistant for 2 years(my supervisor is aware of the incident and wrote about my character in her recommendation). This is an incident that happened in the end of 2007. Its been a little over 6 years and this experience has been instrumental in shaping me into what I am today.

 

[adimelon]

I'm not an ADCOM (Goro, gyngyn or LizzyM should weigh in here) but as a woman, my question is whether this has changed your attitude towards women at all. It sounds like you've learned to be a much more responsible and conscientious person, which is great. If I were working with you as a resident or a fellow or attending, would I have to worry about your sexually harassing women on the job? This could mean anything from making inappropriate comments, asking students or patients out, lashing out at women when you're frustrated, etc. That's the concern I'd imagine you have to snuff out.

This was definitely an eye opener at a very young age. This experience has impacted the way I see the world. I spent a good amount of time changing my immature attitude to life. I hold every human being to the utmost respect. Back then, I was 18 and didn't understand the gravity of loose comments. As a RA, I have worked with women very closely(worked with 131 women). My record has remained clean ever since- no complains or anything against me.

 

[gumdrops]

This was definitely an eye opener at a very young age. This experience has impacted the way I see the world. I spent a good amount of time changing my immature attitude to life. I hold every human being to the utmost respect. Back then, I was 18 and didn't understand the gravity of loose comments. As a RA, I have worked with women very closely(worked with 131 women). My record has remained clean ever since- no complains or anything against me.

This line is key. Make sure you reiterate it in your IA explanation. You treat everyone with respect and understanding now. You learned from disrespecting your friend initially and the TA. Now you have a theme that you can use to talk more about growth and change. Don't focus on how the repercussions made you change so much as your realizing that you didn't want to be the kind of person who was involved in such situations. Good luck.

 

[LizzyM]

Did everyone else assume adimelon was male and that the TA was female? I didn't...

I am a bit more concerned with using a false email account to prank someone. All in all, you are lucky to have escaped a worse fate. Some schools are "take no prisoners" when it comes to misconduct these days.

 

[gumdrops]

Did everyone else assume adimelon was male and that the TA was female? I didn't...

I didn't assume that it was a male harassing a female (I've seen complaints lodged both between men and between women) but realized that my example with "public humiliation of a woman" may have made it seem that way. I'm sorry.

 

[adimelon]

Did everyone else assume adimelon was male and that the TA was female? I didn't...

I am a bit more concerned with using a false email account to prank someone. All in all, you are lucky to have escaped a worse fate. Some schools are "take no prisoners" when it comes to misconduct these days.

I understand where you're coming from. I made a silly mistake. There was lack of judgment and insensitivity. I regret it each day and can't express how sorry I am. That being said, I have a deeper reverence of people.
Over these 6years I have had no other misconduct. I have had a clean record. No noise violations or underage drinking or anything else that is major..
I really hope I get a second chance...

Thank you all for your advice!

 

[DokterMom]

My freshman year I emailed a Teaching Fellow a sexually explicit message to a teaching fellow from a third party email account, pretending to be one of my friends. It was suppose to be a harmless joke but people were affected. My friend was getting in trouble for it and I owned up and took complete responsibility for it without any delay

You were a little vague for my tastes here, but could be just to protect your anonymity on the www, which is completely understandable -- wise even. But as has been pointed out above, you don't want the imagination to get involved because that will only hurt you. If the story is something along the lines of "I wrote an email pretending to be from a friend to our mutual TA in which I said s/he was hot and that I was interested in having a sexual relationship. When I was 18, it sounded funny. I have since learned..." then by all means say so.

The 6 years later aspect is very helpful --The whole sexting / cyber-bullying / circulating naked phone pix / using computer to hurt people sexually bit is still fairly new. Maybe point out that your awareness grew and deepened as scope of problem became culturally apparent. Six years ago, I don't think that type of 'crime' was being talked about much -- so it was much more plausible then to be young and stupid and oblivious to the consequences than it would be now.

 

[LizzyM]

You were a little vague for my tastes here, but could be just to protect your anonymity on the www, which is completely understandable -- wise even. But as has been pointed out above, you don't want the imagination to get involved because that will only hurt you. If the story is something along the lines of "I wrote an email pretending to be from a friend to our mutual TA in which I said s/he was hot and that I was interested in having a sexual relationship. When I was 18, it sounded funny. I have since learned..." then by all means say so.

The 6 years later aspect is very helpful --The whole sexting / cyber-bullying / circulating naked phone pix / using computer to hurt people sexually bit is still fairly new. Maybe point out that your awareness grew and deepened as scope of problem became culturally apparent. Six years ago, I don't think that type of 'crime' was being talked about much -- so it was much more plausible then to be young and stupid and oblivious to the consequences than it would be now.

I agree. I'd start out your little paragraph describing the IA using the month and year which highlights that this happened a long time ago. Use the phrase "as a prank". Describe the punishment. Express remorse. Describe that you have put childish pranks behind you and have a deep respect for integrity in all communications but especially electronically.
Something described this way is going to be seen along the lines of "I hid a bottle of gin in my roommate's shower caddy and he nearly got expelled. I am sorry." and you should be ok.

 

[adimelon]

Thank you all for your tips and suggestions.
@LizzyM and @Goro : wouldn't most schools see a red flag on my file and find an opportunity to weed out my file from their applicant pool? I just feel that adcoms wouldn't consider my file for review or an interview since they can find an equally strong or better candidate.
Maybe I'm just being pessimistic but I feel its a valid fear.

 

[gyngyn]

Thank you all for your tips and suggestions.
@LizzyM and @Goro : wouldn't most schools see a red flag on my file and find an opportunity to weed out my file from their applicant pool? I just feel that adcoms wouldn't consider my file for review or an interview since they can find an equally strong or better candidate.
Maybe I'm just being pessimistic but I feel its a valid fear.

It depends on what you offer against the risk.

 

[adimelon]

It depends on what you offer against the risk.

I'm referring to the pre-application review. Basically when the adcom just review my IA.

 

[Life Sucks]

You should own up and be an advocate against this type of smut or start some awareness campaign. That's what I call owning up. But boy, you better have your profile buff.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm referring to the pre-application review. Basically when the adcom just review my IA.

Your whole application (including the IA) will be reviewed by a screener before you make it to the next level.

If the rest of your application does not offset the risk posed by your IA, you will not make it to the next level.

 

[LizzyM]

Your whole application (including the IA) will be reviewed by a screener before you make it to the next level.

If the rest of your application does not offset the risk posed by your IA, you will not make it to the next level.

It depends on the school. My school looks at just the IA and asks, "even if this applicant is a superstar academically and in every other way, would we want someone who had done *this* in our midst?" We don't want people who have been caught stealing other students belongings. We don't want individuals who have had trouble with the law for violence. We don't want people who rig schemes to cheat on exams. On the other hand, we might tolerate someone who did something dumb as a prank or had a bottle of gin in the closet. Plenty of adcoms did dumb things in college (many of us were lucky not to get caught) and we know that even upstanding citizens might have a history of doing dumb things that should not preclude success in medical school and the practice of medicine.

Once an applicant passes the "this IA is no big deal" test, then the IA is off the table and the rest of the application is judge just like any other.

 

[Goro]

Can't speak for other schools, but my Admissions Dean does not weed out applicants from getting IIs. We've interviewed felons, cheaters and
people with multiple DUIs.

It's my Adcom that makes the decision on their fate.

I'm referring to the pre-application review. Basically when the adcom just review my IA.

 

[LizzyM]

Can't speak for other schools, but my Admissions Dean does not weed out applicants from getting IIs. We've interviewed felons, cheaters and
people with multiple DUIs.

It's my Adcom that makes the decision on their fate.

We won't waste anyone's time reviewing the application and interviewing the applicant if admission would be out of the question due to something really aggregious. A subcommittee of the adcom makes the "no go" decisions. I guess different schools take different approaches.

 

[Goro]

I'm jealous!

We won't waste anyone's time reviewing the application and interviewing the applicant if admission would be out of the question due to something really aggregious. A subcommittee of the adcom makes the "no go" decisions. I guess different schools take different approaches.

 

[gyngyn]

It depends on the school. My school looks at just the IA and asks, "even if this applicant is a superstar academically and in every other way, would we want someone who had done *this* in our midst?" We don't want people who have been caught stealing other students belongings. We don't want individuals who have had trouble with the law for violence. We don't want people who rig schemes to cheat on exams. On the other hand, we might tolerate someone who did something dumb as a prank or had a bottle of gin in the closet. Plenty of adcoms did dumb things in college (many of us were lucky not to get caught) and we know that even upstanding citizens might have a history of doing dumb things that should not preclude success in medical school and the practice of medicine.

Once an applicant passes the "this IA is no big deal" test, then the IA is off the table and the rest of the application is judge just like any other.

I guess we're in the middle, then. The screener eliminates egregious IA's but even the less serious ones are factored in as the final decision is made.

 

[adimelon]

I have drafted a prompt for AMCAS. Would anyone be willing to take a look and critique it?

 

[mehc012]

Since adimelon's seems to have been reasonably well addressed here, would it be acceptable for me to pose a similar question on mine? I don't want to thread-jack, but I also don't want to start a whole new thread on the subject...

 

[V5RED]

Adimelon was not the op of this thread. That guy stopped posting in this thread in 2012. You will be the second thread jacker

 

[mehc012]

Adimelon was not the op of this thread. That guy stopped posting in this thread in 2012. You will be the second thread jacker

haha, fair point. I missed that!

Mine is a little...frustrating.
If I'm vague about it, it's simply "freshman year alcohol violation", which is survivable.
If you put the official wording, it's "Alcohol intoxication and repeated serious concerns over disruptive behavior" which sounds terrible and would likely sink me.
If the Dean actually writes a letter over it, it becomes clear that there had been many concerns over my mental health freshman year, I was resistant to counseling, and the Deans gave up and used an alcohol situation as a way to require follow-up given that none of my 'concerning' behavior was actually against the rules in any way. People were just worried about me, which unfortunately tends to be disruptive. This one is...well, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems better than the official one-liner, but far, far worse than an alcohol violation.
Furthermore, I was really hoping to avoid discussing mental health in my app. It was something I had huge struggles with in undergrad, but I worked through it on my own and am a completely different person than I was back then. I am incredibly grateful that I went to school where I did, because I really honestly think that the people I met and the administration I worked with are the reason I am the awesome, happy person I am today. Unfortunately, it's also the reason that my GPA is low. I don't want to make excuses and I don't want the stigma of the mental health aspect, even though it explains the IA and my bizarre GPA patterning. This isn't so much because I want it to be secret - on the contrary, I don't really keep secrets about myself in reality - I just don't think it's appropriate for an application. It's not something I see as defining me, it's not something that reads well on paper, there is HUGE stigma (especially in healthcare), and I don't want to 'that kid' with all of the excuses, especially since if the mental health aspect comes up, there are other events which are likely to be relevant/included (again, something I'm comfortable discussing in person, but not in an app, even though it played a HUGE factor in my grades).

I graduated several years ago, so the IA will be 6+ years behind me when I apply. Am I better off avoiding schools which require a Dean's letter? Is the official wording required? I'm meeting with them this month...if they change the official wording, would it be acceptable to use the alternate phrasing? They straight-up offered to write me a letter explaining things, but then never got back to me...I think because the letter is weird here. It requires bringing in a huge amount of context and follow-up that the school has in its unofficial records, and completely changes the face of things. I'm just concerned that doing so makes things worse rather than better.

I recognize that I'm fairly vague here, but it's a little dicey being too specific on public forums...if anyone has any particular insight on this sort of situation please let me know!

 

[DokterMom]

You're right Mehc, that there's a stigma against mental illness. In some regards, that's vary unfair. But in others, there's some logic to it. Medical school is HUGELY stressful - to the extent that it would tax anyone's mental health. Also, once you become a physician, you'd have virtually unfettered access to drugs, enormous responsibility, very little oversight, and lives in your hands. So a recipe for potential disaster. So my first point is to make sure, internally, that you really are mentally healthy and stable enough for a path this difficult. Have you identified and thoroughly addressed the issues that caused the people around you to be so concerned? Don't let pride or fairness convince you do take a path that ultimately isn't best for you... There are plenty of other paths in healthcare (nursing, PA) that offer lots of opportunities to 'do the good stuff' and become a happy, healthy, successful and fulfilled person without quite so much pressure. (OK, end of Mom talk.)

The 'Dean's letter' you refer to is, if I'm not mistaken, something from med school to residency, not from undergrad to med school, so you're probably off the hook on that one. As for LORs from your former professors, I'm not so sure. If I were writing a LOR and had emotional stability concerns, I would feel obligated to mention them. I would not / could not divulge specific medical diagnoses, but would feel honor-bound to express any serious concerns I had and explain the behaviors/incidences that caused me to have such concerns.

 

[terp720]

The 'Dean's letter' you refer to is, if I'm not mistaken, something from med school to residency, not from undergrad to med school, so you're probably off the hook on that one. As for LORs from your former professors, I'm not so sure. If I were writing a LOR and had emotional stability concerns, I would feel obligated to mention them. I would not / could not divulge specific medical diagnoses, but would feel honor-bound to express any serious concerns I had and explain the behaviors/incidences that caused me to have such concerns.

Some schools require a letter from the dean at your UG institution if you have an IA on your record. I believe this is what mehc was referring to

 

[mehc012]

You're right Mehc, that there's a stigma against mental illness. In some regards, that's vary unfair. But in others, there's some logic to it. Medical school is HUGELY stressful - to the extent that it would tax anyone's mental health. Also, once you become a physician, you'd have virtually unfettered access to drugs, enormous responsibility, very little oversight, and lives in your hands. So a recipe for potential disaster. So my first point is to make sure, internally, that you really are mentally healthy and stable enough for a path this difficult. Have you identified and thoroughly addressed the issues that caused the people around you to be so concerned? Don't let pride or fairness convince you do take a path that ultimately isn't best for you... There are plenty of other paths in healthcare (nursing, PA) that offer lots of opportunities to 'do the good stuff' and become a happy, healthy, successful and fulfilled person without quite so much pressure. (OK, end of Mom talk.)

The 'Dean's letter' you refer to is, if I'm not mistaken, something from med school to residency, not from undergrad to med school, so you're probably off the hook on that one. As for LORs from your former professors, I'm not so sure. If I were writing a LOR and had emotional stability concerns, I would feel obligated to mention them. I would not / could not divulge specific medical diagnoses, but would feel honor-bound to express any serious concerns I had and explain the behaviors/incidences that caused me to have such concerns.

I'm good on that front...and this year has been far more stressful than any of my undergrad years. That's on purpose. I wanted to make sure that I could rock things no matter what. On that note, though, academic pressure has NEVER stressed me out; it tends to be what keeps me sane. My grades occasionally suffered from interruptions to my school year, etc, but they stayed around a B+ in general. No withdrawals, only 2 or 3 C+s which were actually due to other factors. Decision-making and leadership never stress me out. Again, they keep me sane. The worst thing for me is too much free time and too little responsibility. I'm a creature of momentum. I think part of why I fell apart at the beginning of college was the sudden overload of free time.
My former profs are all 100% on board, Again, they knew me well, but I didn't have issues in academic or organizational settings. I have new profs who pre-wrote me an LOR without my asking for it because they wanted to give me one, and I've got physicians where I work who I feel I can comfortably ask for a rec (who have no knowledge that I was ever on the crazy side). I was never officially diagnosed with anything to my knowledge.

I'm fine on the LOR front, the health front, I think I can scrape together a pretty reasonable app considering my low GPA...I'm just concerned about the actual IA, and I REALLY don't want to drag in all of the psych stuff from freshman year because it brings up exactly the sort of eyebrow raising that you show here (well-intentioned and non-insulting as it is, I still don't want the adcoms leaning down that road). I'm trying to figure out how to avoid that.

Can I leave it as 'freshman alcohol violation'? Do I have to bring in the official description? If they change the official description is it OK to use the new version? Should I avoid schools which require that letter? Is my school allowed to disclose the mental health concerns without my knowledge? Am I better off with the cruddy sounding official description which makes me sound like a rowdy drinker, or a Dean's letter which brings in mental health (assuming I even get that choice)?

 

[DokterMom]

I'm good on that front...and this year has been far more stressful than any of my undergrad years. That's on purpose. I wanted to make sure that I could rock things no matter what. On that note, though, academic pressure has NEVER stressed me out; it tends to be what keeps me sane. My grades occasionally suffered from interruptions to my school year, etc, but they stayed around a B+ in general. No withdrawals, only 2 or 3 C+s which were actually due to other factors. Decision-making and leadership never stress me out. Again, they keep me sane. The worst thing for me is too much free time and too little responsibility. I'm a creature of momentum. I think part of why I fell apart at the beginning of college was the sudden overload of free time.

Great to hear -- And thanks for taking my comments within the context they were intended.

As to your specific question, I think the "rowdy drinker" implication -- now that it's six years behind you -- would be minimally damaging, much less so than the "eyebrow raising psych concern" stuff. Sudden excesses of freedom and unstructured time can often result in "wild frat boy" behavior in the young and newly sprung. That's what the IA wording implies, and that's what I'd go with. The sheepishly-admitted and truthy "Yeah, I had too much free time and went a little crazy. But I've grown up a lot since then as demonstrated by my clean record and strong upward trend" is probably your best bet.

 

[juliuspepperwood]

It you committed academic dishonesty or stole items of significant value (particularly from fellow students) or were involved in violence or sexual assault, it is pretty much "game over". If you had a carton of milk on the fire escape or hung someone's underwear from light fixture or had a display of beer bottles in your dorm room, it might be considered "no big deal". Context is everything.

Is violence always a game over? I have an IA from my irresponsible days in 2009 where I was involved in a physical altercation with my room mate. We kept living together after and were still friends and no charges were filed but it is obviously an incident I very much regret. Does the fact that it served as a turning point for a sharp upward trend help at all?

 

[LizzyM]

Is violence always a game over? I have an IA from my irresponsible days in 2009 where I was involved in a physical altercation with my room mate. We kept living together after and were still friends and no charges were filed but it is obviously an incident I very much regret. Does the fact that it served as a turning point for a sharp upward trend help at all?

What you describe might be an exception to the rule. If you put someone in the hospital or if the violence were directed at a minor or a senior citizen or a person of the opposite sex or if you were in a gang then we'd have a bigger issue.

 

[juliuspepperwood]

What you describe might be an exception to the rule. If you put someone in the hospital or if the violence were directed at a minor or a senior citizen or a person of the opposite sex or if you were in a gang then we'd have a bigger issue.

Thanks for the insight. I've tried to address it as best as possible so now I'll just see how it plays out I guess.

 

[adimelon]

Sexual harassment... that's worse than a carton of milk on the fire escape but not as bad as stealing laptops. That said, I would vote "no". Add "computing ethics" and it doesn't seem any better when we ask the question, "Would we want this person in our community?" On the other hand, is this something like sending a dirty joke or picture by email and having it become a "big deal"? That might require a long conversation among adcom members. Your application will not be an easy one to judge but it will have to be judged. Apply more broadly than usual (25-30 schools) because you are going to strike out more often than an applicant with the same stats but no institutional action.

Six years is enough time to redeem yourself, and if you have female LOR writers explain the incident, as well as you, and you 100% own it, then I don't see it as an issue.

You were a little vague for my tastes here, but could be just to protect your anonymity on the www, which is completely understandable -- wise even. But as has been pointed out above, you don't want the imagination to get involved because that will only hurt you. If the story is something along the lines of "I wrote an email pretending to be from a friend to our mutual TA in which I said s/he was hot and that I was interested in having a sexual relationship. When I was 18, it sounded funny. I have since learned..." then by all means say so.

The 6 years later aspect is very helpful --The whole sexting / cyber-bullying / circulating naked phone pix / using computer to hurt people sexually bit is still fairly new. Maybe point out that your awareness grew and deepened as scope of problem became culturally apparent. Six years ago, I don't think that type of 'crime' was being talked about much -- so it was much more plausible then to be young and stupid and oblivious to the consequences than it would be now.

I wanted to update you all on my situation. So I applied to 30+ schools and had several interviews. in most interviews they brought up my IA and we discussed it and I highlighted lasting lessons. As of today, I have been accepted to 1 MD school(one of my top choices). I am ecstatic. My interviewer didn't even bring it up, however, I did when he asked my if I had more to share. He mentioned that everyone makes mistakes and this shouldn't be a big deal in deciding for my admission. I did make sure my prompt was direct and to the point. I made sure I highlighted lessons learned and took complete responsibility of my actions while expressing remorse.

I wanted to thank you all on this thread that provided their valuable feedback. You guys made a whole lot of difference in making my application successful for me!

 

[DokterMom]

That's wonderful to hear - Congratulations! I know you will enjoy this Thanksgiving particularly and be grateful for your chance. Enjoy --