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So far I've heard of two instances where instruments have been thrown by physicians at staff during surgery. What gives? Do these individuals not get disciplined in some way by administration?
So far I've heard of two instances where instruments have been thrown by physicians at staff during surgery. What gives? Do these individuals not get disciplined in some way by administration?
Illl just say: This is barely an issue.. If you throw a scalpel at some one and they get stabbed.. You loose your license.. Thats it, end of story..
throwing things randomly at the wall is one thing, & i've seen it happen... but throwing AT other people? they'd get their privileges revoked at a minimum.
This kind of behavior is no longer acceptable.
There was rumor of it happening at my school and I was prepared mentally for it before surgery. I had told myself I was going to scrub out and call the police if something was thrown at me or hit me and let them sort it out.
So far I've heard of two instances where instruments have been thrown by physicians at staff during surgery. What gives? Do these individuals not get disciplined in some way by administration?
Never happened at my med school or now, during residency. The closest would be when an attending tosses something onto the ground - never thrown at someone.
But I did have an unpleasant experience happen to me during an MS-IV away rotation. I don't want to give too many details, but let's just say a scalpel went flying...at me...
Was it out of anger or frustration, or both? Or was it instead done as a joke turned deadly wrong?
What would be the repercussions if you layed out the surgeon who threw something at you?
What would be the repercussions if you layed out the surgeon who threw something at you?
This thread reminded me of a new article I read a while back about how a surgeon losing his head caused a patient to lose his head.
Link.
What would be the repercussions if you layed out the surgeon who threw something at you?
The dude is throwing stuff at you precisely because he knows you cannot do a thing to him without serious repercussions.
What would be the repercussions if you layed out the surgeon who threw something at you?
g3pro, you are not always right.Not much of a team player...
If I were the patient, I'd just return the favor on that one. There'd be no other solution.This thread reminded me of a new article I read a while back about how a surgeon losing his head caused a patient to lose his head.
Link.
What would be the repercussions if you layed out the surgeon who threw something at you?
As others have suggested, it is more likely that the surgeon launched something across the room at a wall, and the story was magnified into "he threw the scalpel at the nurse".
If you did it right away, without waiting, you could bill it as self defense.
Nah -- self defense doesn't really work with thrown weapons -- the second the scalpel (or other item likely to cause bodily harm) is no longer in his hands you lose the defense. You have to be in imminent fear and have no ability to retreat to assert the defense. So once he threw a scalpel and missed, you are obligated to get out of there -- you don't get a free shot. So you'd really have to hit him as he was throwing or pretty clearly about to throw to have a tenable claim of self defense. But if you hit him before he did anything you'd not get much witness backing -- the only thing everybody would have seen was a sucker punch. So you are SOL. Best to just wear kevlar under your scrubs and deal with it.
Throwing's for 3 year olds.
You're all way too soft. You don't realize how easy we have it compared to before. My dad who trained back in the day tells me all sorts of stories of surgeons throwing stuff in the OR, berating residents and med students on an hourly basis, keeping them in the hospital for days at a time, etc with absolutely no reprecussions. You guys get upset because a surgeon threw something in the OR or was mean to you? Please. You wouldn't last a week in residency back then.
You're all way too soft. You don't realize how easy we have it compared to before. My dad who trained back in the day tells me all sorts of stories of surgeons throwing stuff in the OR, berating residents and med students on an hourly basis, keeping them in the hospital for days at a time, etc with absolutely no reprecussions. You guys get upset because a surgeon threw something in the OR or was mean to you? Please. You wouldn't last a week in residency back then.
I bet you we could last a week, but that is irrelevant considering it was wrong then and still wrong today. Misterioso, meet Mr. Fallacy . He would like to introduce you to the concept of "just because something happened and was acceptable in the past does not mean it is right".
I'm pretty shocked to hear that these things are actually happening.
So far, all the faculty at my school has been nothing but professional
with a collegiate attitude towards myself and the others students
and faculty. Do these this kind of things actually happen more than
like once a year?
Nah -- self defense doesn't really work with thrown weapons -- the second the scalpel (or other item likely to cause bodily harm) is no longer in his hands you lose the defense. You have to be in imminent fear and have no ability to retreat to assert the defense. So once he threw a scalpel and missed, you are obligated to get out of there -- you don't get a free shot. So you'd really have to hit him as he was throwing or pretty clearly about to throw to have a tenable claim of self defense. But if you hit him before he did anything you'd not get much witness backing -- the only thing everybody would have seen was a sucker punch. So you are SOL. Best to just wear kevlar under your scrubs and deal with it.
Doesn't this change in states that have a "castle doctrine". My understanding is that an individual is legally able to stand his/her ground and no longer needs to seek retreat when faced with harm. Now the individual is at liberty to defend themselves? Law2Doc how far off base am I?
I love the castle doctrine... There is a pistol next to my bed and in my truck at all times. I just hope someone tries to jack with me!
I wouldn't be so cavalier if I were you, accidents can happen.
I was accidentally shot by my Dad when I was coming home late one night in high school
...and then again when I was walking out of the hospital two days later. The third time I was able to land an elbow on the bridge of his nose before he could get a shot off. Maybe I just really look like a burglar....
I love the castle doctrine... There is a pistol next to my bed and in my truck at all times. I just hope someone tries to jack with me!
That is honestly hilariousLOL I had no idea this thread existed. I googled "threw scalpel at OR staff" hoping to find a meme or picture to create one. The interesting thing is that I know who did this too as I also go to that school (not the one in my user name). His punishment for the incident was priceless. They put him in charge of a branch of the Medical School. This guy is an unbelievable hot head. Very unstable. From what the physicians tell me who were here for it, this was not the first time something of this magnitude happened in the OR with this individual which suggests that perhaps (depending on who you are) there may not be any punishment for 1st offenders. All I am going to say is this person was more immune than any other surgeons in the hospital for reasons I will not mention because it would certainly give it away. I failed one shelf (the first one) and my punishment is that I have to call him every week and get berated about how I am "a worthless excuse for a human being" "the biggest f*&&* idiot he has ever met". He told me one time that he wishes he saw me in Iraq (he is a former Colonel) so he could have saved all of my future patients from the misery and ultimate demise that having me as a doctor will bring upon them. After you hear his little rants enough times, you really get desensitized to it, especially after finding out from his own colleagues all the stuff he used to do. So when he says all of these things, what is he really doing? Talking about himself of course. This is classic displacement. He also meets DSM-V criteria for Narcissistic personality disorder with features of others, so we will call it mixed.
Anyways, thanks everyone. And viostorm, he is gone now. I hope that you did not experience anything like this from other surgeons. I doubt that you would . He is one in a million and in a bad way. He would totally do something like what the link references that JERI posted.
About 6 years ago a guy (who had a concealed carry weapon/CCW permit) was going down the highway, when he started having some problems with a crazy guy road rager. He had no idea how he had upset the crazy guy. He pulled off the road onto the soft shoulder to let the crazy guy go by. The crazy guy pulled off onto the soft shoulder ahead of him, then backed his car up down the highway until he was near the CCW guy. Crazy guy got out of his car, started beating on CCW's car. CCW was very afraid, and pulled his coat back so that crazy guy could see he was armed with a gun - hoping to scare him off. Crazy guy started daring him to shoot. Crazy guy went and got in his car. CCW guy was scared to leave, afraid crazy guy would follow him until he got home. Little did CCW guy know crazy guy was calling the police, and telling the police that some guy was following him on the highway and threatening him with a gun. The police showed up shortly, and arrested CCW guy for threatening crazy guy with the gun. CCW guy did nothing on purpose to cause problems, and was only concerned with defending himself - yet ended up getting arrested.
The legal endings to a fight are sometimes ironic.