integration

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i was just wondering why podiatry isn't integrated into medical schools. podiatrists are specialists of the feet and seem to do everything a medical doctor would for other parts of the body. so why is podiatry a separate profesion? would integrating podiatric programs into medical schools be a good idea? any opinions?

 

[box29]

Both Des Moines and Scholl have integrated programs with DMU being more integrated with the med students. One thing you have to take into account is that pod students specialize from day one while MD/DO students are taught to be generalists first and if so, then specialists second. Most of the overlap in basic science and other general courses could be covered as well, but second year of pod school, you'll see more specialized classes.

 

[jconway]

i have often wondered why we arent more integrated
at this point i feel like i havent learned enough about the lower extremity to give you an honest answer
what box said was true though
our 2nd yr does offer alot more podiatry specific courses, and our profs always emphaisze the pathologies that are most commonly seen in a podiatric practice

i guess its the same reason that dentistry isnt taught in medical school either
there is just so much stuff going on in the foot/mouth...that your better off learning how to be a specialist first and in internist second then the other way around....

though on the upshot....we do get to have shorter residency then any other surgical subspecialty

-j

 

[Werry]

It already is intergated - it's called an orthopedist who specializes in foot and ankle.

 

[jessica123]

i was just wondering why podiatry isn't integrated into medical schools. podiatrists are specialists of the feet and seem to do everything a medical doctor would for other parts of the body. so why is podiatry a separate profesion? would integrating podiatric programs into medical schools be a good idea? any opinions?

podiatrists, like optometrists and dentists are only required to learn a limited amount of medicine. physicians do the heavy duty stuff like accept responsibility for hospital admissions, infection admissions etc. the education varies because podiatrists fast track to a specialty, as optometrists do. in the end you make an ok living without alot of hours. those who want all that responsibility should go to medical school. i spent alot of time in my fathers office. podiatry is a very nice "chit chat" profession, you can have alot of fun with the patients in an office setting. i am still thinking about podiatry school.

jes

 

[jconway]

w/ all do respect
alot of what you said varies greatly from doc to doc
ie..i know more than a few pods who take responsibility for admitting pts to the hospital, and most cases it is for infection and subsequent complications
also hours are very variable too
32hrs for some 80 hrs for others...
15pts a day for some vs. 60 for others
its how you want to practice that wil determine the amount of time you spend in a hospital vs how much time you will be chit chatting

just something to consider
-j

 

[ProdPod]

Please reconsider!

 

[stinkycheese]

w/ all do respect
alot of what you said varies greatly from doc to doc
ie..i know more than a few pods who take responsibility for admitting pts to the hospital, and most cases it is for infection and subsequent complications

-j

No hospital would let a podiatrist be the primary provider in a hospital setting for a patient. Maybe the DPM can get the patient admitted, but once they're in the hospital, they are primarily under the care and supervision of a physician and nursing team. No podiatrist could be responsible for the patient's total healthcare while admitted, because podiatrists are not trained in medicine.

 

[cg2a93]

Actually, Podiatrist are allowed to admit patients under their name depending on the hospital and state. In the near future it will be a common occurrance.
Podiatrist are trained to manage patients for LE problems and refer to other doctors when needed just like any other doctor does.
With 4 years of school and then 3-4 years of residency we just dont learn about the LE.
Podiatry is a evolving field adding different aspects to practice more and more each year. 😀

 

[stinkycheese]

Yeah, you can treat leg and foot problems, but if a patient gets an infection from a foot problem, you can bet that the MD or DO will have to supevise the systemic treatment administered, as well as the total patient care. You can admit patients, but you cannot treat them independently when it comes to medical problems that expand beyond a foot-specific, non-systemic issue or illness.

 

[jconway]

Yeah, you can treat leg and foot problems, but if a patient gets an infection from a foot problem, you can bet that the MD or DO will have to supevise the systemic treatment administered, as well as the total patient care. You can admit patients, but you cannot treat them independently when it comes to medical problems that expand beyond a foot-specific, non-systemic issue or illness.

wait.... i think you are saying 2 different things here
you can treat them independently for an infection of the foot/leg
but you cannot treat them independently for any non foot related systemic infection
however, when you pt has infection in their foot that is causing them to run a fever or whatever you can provide whatever meds are neccessary
however..if you are being responsible...you would call for a consult like any other doc would...otherwise you are asking for trouble

-j

 

[cg2a93]

Again, at some hospitals podiatrist admit under their name. Do full H&Ps and refer patient when needed. If the patient has a infection that requires IV abxs then we give it to them. No other doctor looks over your shoulder. Now, if you mean complication from systemic infection ie. kidney failure, ect, yes I would not treat those problems. I would write a consult to the appropriate doctor as would any other specialist. If need be we consult ID. As for systemic infection no doctor in his or her right mind would not consult ID medicolegally it is imperative whether your a Podiatrist or orthopod(most hospital protocol require it).
If a patient is admitted for a podiatric problem there is no need to consult another doctor if we are just treating that podiatric problem( in those hospitals that allow pods to admit).
BTW, even if pods were not allowed to admit on their own. It doesnt change the way we treat the patient. We still do our jobs the same way. Some on this board may see it as a prestige thing, but Its nothing but a hassle that I really dont want to deal with. I dont really want to admit patients. Let the pcp do it. Ill come in and consult and leave all the paperwork and the other nonsense to the MD. Ill just write my orders and go home. Let the pcp deal with those 4 in the morning pages from the nurse asking you to write a order for tylenol because the patient has a fever or pain even though you put the orders in the computer right before you left, she doesnt see them and when you get to the hospital miraculously the order is staring you in the face, "acetaminophen 650mg po q4 prn pain". Sorry guys flashback

 

[jessica123]

Still didn't clean your mouth after daddy was there Jessica? Please reconsider!

Prodpod (prod? hmmmm...) do you hate women? do you have anything intelligent to say? why would you want me to clean my mouth? i dont understand.

jes

 

[ProdPod]

Maybe these questions should be redirected to yourself, genius!

 

[jessica123]

Still didn't clean your mouth after daddy was there Jessica? Please reconsider!

i dont think society should give this kind of pervert a license to be alone in a room with people. what school do you go to? i think you should be monitored.

 

[ProdPod]

i dont think society should give this kind of pervert a license to be alone in a room with people. what school do you go to? i think you should be monitored.

More wise words!

 

[diabeticfootdr]

It already is intergated - it's called an orthopedist who specializes in foot and ankle.

I would refer you to an article written by a nationally respected foot and ankle orthopedic surgeon.

Pinzur M, Mikolyzk, BS, Aronow M, et al. Foot and ankle experience in orthopedic residency. Fook Ankle Int 2003;24:567-569.

Pinzur et al. found that standards for foot and ankle surgery are anything but standardized in orthopedic residencies, some only spending a few months. Also surprisingly, there is no subspeciality board for foot and ankle surgery in orthopedics. Currently, podiatry is the only surgical speciality with universal standards for residency in foot and ankle surgery, including general medicine, anesthesiology, vascular surgery, behavioral medicine, emergency medicine - all in addition to required surgical case numbers for board qualification. These standards can be found in the CPME 320 document on the AACPM.org website.

LCR

 

[jessica123]

Currently, podiatry is the only surgical speciality with universal standards for residency in foot and ankle surgery, including general medicine, anesthesiology, vascular surgery, behavioral medicine, emergency medicine - all in addition to required surgical case numbers for board qualification.
LCR

these subjects are taught in medical school, they dont need to cover these in residency. arent you doing a diabetic recidency? how is that a universal standard to a surgical residency? what happens if you have to do a bunion surgery? i get more confused every day trying to make up my mind about going to pod school. i spent years in and out of my fathers office and saw the growing discontent in him.

jes

 

[box29]

i get more confused every day trying to make up my mind about going to pod school. i spent years in and out of my fathers office and saw the growing discontent in him.

jes

You'll see the same in medicine...My mother is a pediatrician and the growing discontent keeps growing. I always hear how she should've gone into dermatology and how she always wanted to be a singer/performer instead of a doctor.

It's your decision and you have to live with it. Just make sure you do what makes you happy.

 

[jconway]

these subjects are taught in medical school, they dont need to cover these in residency. arent you doing a diabetic recidency? how is that a universal standard to a surgical residency? what happens if you have to do a bunion surgery? i get more confused every day trying to make up my mind about going to pod school. i spent years in and out of my fathers office and saw the growing discontent in him.

jes

the residency is the samew for all pods...either 2 yr or 3 yr(depending on how far you want to go in your training) in that time you will receive a standardized level of training in all aspects of podiatric medicine...

i believe dr rogers is doing an additional fellowship in diabetic wound care or diabetic reconstructive surgery(though i am sure he would be rather answer be the one to answer your question)

fellowshiips are additional training desgned to increase your level of competency in various aspects of medicine...to my knowledge all fields of medicine offer something along these lines during or after residency

while a surgical residency for an MD covers all aspects of surgery, the amount of foot and ankle traing pods receive(and thus our surgical abilities in the lower extremity) dwarf that of our general surgery counterparts...which is why we specialize in the foot and ankle, and they are in charge of general surgery(or whatever subspecialty they choose)same goes for all other aspects of medicine...
hope this was helpful
-j
and as for the discontent...spend some time with other pods..see if they practice in a way that suits you better/or worse than your father
thats what i did

 

[diabeticfootdr]

these subjects are taught in medical school, they dont need to cover these in residency. arent you doing a diabetic recidency? how is that a universal standard to a surgical residency? what happens if you have to do a bunion surgery?

jes

Jessica, you are correct, they are taught in podiatric medical school, but you are far from proficient in those subjects. You need some practical time actually doing what your didactic education has taught you. For example, practical residency experience in internal medicine is necessary because many systemic diseases can manifest themselves in the lower extremities first. In addition, you will be prescribing drugs for maladies of the lower extremity and these drugs potentially have interactions with other body systems and diseases. Like NSAIDs with HTN or kidney disease.

I am currently in a PM&S-24 program linked to a 1 year diabetic limb salvage fellowship. All core residency education has been standardized now to help the medical community understand that all DPMs are trained foot or foot and ankle surgeons. Read the article I quoted above from orthopedic surgeons criticizing the lack of standardization in their own foot and ankle training.

Hope that helped,

LCR

 

[jessica123]

....Hope that helped,

LCR

gotcha! thanx

jes

 

[bcan]

hi ,
how r u ?
r u online now