Intelligence Vs. Hard work

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veaselhaufen said:
HARDWORK by a landslide. I am surprised that so many say intelligence. Intelligence helps you only in some areas of medicine/life. Hard work helps you everywhere. This seems like a no-brainer
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It is a no-brainer...hard work is something that you learn to do and do consistently. Intelligence is not something you learn. You either have it or you don't. Thus, the intelligent response here would be to take the intelligence and learn to work hard.
 
Techmed07 said:
but many times women cannot distinguish between the two. And women value maturity above all, both physical and mental.
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But how will you have the time to meet and seduce these women if you are constantly working so hard to achieve that ever elusive "intelligence"?
 
i prefer being around lazy smart people then really hard working slower ones. they are just much more interesting.
 
I'd pick intelligence so I'd be smart enough to know that I have to get my butt into gear.

People who stay up studying all night before an exam are hardworkers.

People who study a week before are intelligent and hard working.

People who get an A without even trying should be shot.
 
I've decided that I don't believe in intelligence. It's just too ill-defined. Besides, I've never really met anyone that I thought was a genius.
 
HARDWORK by a landslide. I am surprised that so many say intelligence. Intelligence helps you only in some areas of medicine/life. Hard work helps you everywhere. This seems like a no-brainer
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However if you are not intelligent enough to get the concepts then your hard work would have no value. An intelligent person would get a higher score then you studying maybe half the time you spent trying to get one concept.
 
veaselhaufen said:
HARDWORK by a landslide. I am surprised that so many say intelligence. Intelligence helps you only in some areas of medicine/life. Hard work helps you everywhere. This seems like a no-brainer
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typical pre-med response... 🙄

intelligence will trump the hard work when all is said and done. They key in med school is to work smart, not hard.
 
pakbabydoll said:
However if you are not intelligent enough to get the concepts then your hard work would have no value. An intelligent person would get a higher score then you studying maybe half the time you spent trying to get one concept.
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haha whats with all the "yous". I'll have you know that I have great stats! 😉. In all seriousness though, I think you're grossly exaggerating the difference in intellegence among most students. I think intelligence does lend some an advantage, but its not nearly as large as you or most people on this thread think.
 
BrokenGlass said:
Some people are really well prepared for college due to a good high school education. Consequently, they have to study less in college to get good results. Often this is mistaken for intelligence by their peers.

Many people are very good at making you believe they don't study and get good grades due to their intelligence alone... So the answer to your question depends on your idea of intelligence.

2 people can have the same potential when they are 6 months old, but due to circumstances one of these people may get a chance to develop their abilities for 18 years and the other person may not to the same extent. So judging people by how much they need to study to get good grades is kind of silly.
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completely agree.
 
intelligence FTW... you can develpop work ethic, but not everyone is very intelligent. I myself am more of a hard worker than intelligent, and I hope that will be enough for me to achieve my goals.
 
maestro1625 said:
typical pre-med response... 🙄

intelligence will trump the hard work when all is said and done. They key in med school is to work smart, not hard.
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This may be very true in MS1 and MS2.

But, at least at the school that we both attend, hard work will almost ALWAYS trump intelligence in MS3 and MS4. The key to doing well on rotations is, basically, being able to say "Yes, Dr. XYZ, I would be very happy to pre-round on your patients at 4:45 AM" or "Sure, Dr. GHI, I would love to scrub into your 6 hour long surgery with you tonight" without a hint of sarcasm in your voice. This is especially true because Jefferson separates your shelf exam score from your clinical evaluations grade. Your evals are worth twice what your shelf exam score is - basically, even if you honor the shelf, it won't make up for the "Good" or "Marginal Pass" that you got on the rotation.

Hard work (and the ability to look interested and enthusiastic without looking phony) will trump sheer intelligence during the last couple years of med school.
 
Climberak said:
People who stay up studying all night before an exam are hardworkers.

People who study a week before are intelligent and hard working.
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I get your point, but I'd have to argue that this doesn't really seem to be the case. An intelligent person may also procrastinate, and then cram for a tough exam all night and ace it... with a total study time much below the average student for that exam. And studying a week before just seems like a characteristic of a hard worker, not necessarily an "intelligent" person. Well, you have to be intelligent enough to at least know your limitations and know how far in advance to start your hard work, but I don't think that's the type of intelligent person we are talking about here.

And Hobo... I'm not going to go so far as to say BS, but half a second per page for a dense medical text would probably be worthy of international recognition. I seriously doubt there are many if any people in the world who can accomplish such a feat, and the ones who can would be seriously deficient in many other (social) areas. More than just playing games and being a recluse. You're describing savant to the level of being a non-functional individual with historic specialized abilities. Such a person would never make it into med school.

Now, reading the text really damned fast... sure. Three or four hours would be absolutely mind blowing. An hour would be otherworldly. It's hard to even turn 600 pages in five minutes.
 
veaselhaufen said:
haha whats with all the "yous". I'll have you know that I have great stats! 😉. In all seriousness though, I think you're grossly exaggerating the difference in intellegence among most students. I think intelligence does lend some an advantage, but its not nearly as large as you or most people on this thread think.
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lol sorry, I did not want to write "a student" a thousand times. Well maybe its no big deal for intelligent people like you, but I don't see my self as super intelligent or anything so maybe thats why I want to be more smarter.
 
I'm not even sure if I can flip through 600 pages in 300 seconds.
 
NCF145 said:
But how will you have the time to meet and seduce these women if you are constantly working so hard to achieve that ever elusive "intelligence"?
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hmm, true.

If you work hard you'll do whatever it takes, persistence that just comes along with hardwork..
 
Not sure why this comparison hasn't been made, but:

Having intelligence without hard work is like being good-looking without having any moves. Sure, you'll get lucky a few times with drunk girls who don't know any better, and you'll get a lot of attention, but without knowing how to say the right things and put in the right amount of effort, you won't get with the upper echelon girls. Having both looks and moves will score you the models... and, in the long run, having only moves will probably net you more action.

Anyways, I'm lazy, standardized tests say I'm "intelligent," and I have a long-term gf (hence my moves have long since died), so I felt like this was a valid metaphor.
 
What is more admirable? Surely it is hard work. But it seems almost anyone can be hard working if they find the motivation.

And yet, we are more envious of those with native intelligence. Not everyone can be intelligent because of mental and physiological limitations.
 
Orbo said:
I'm not even sure if I can flip through 600 pages in 300 seconds.
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600 pages is 300 flips, which is 1 flip per second. it is definately doable, so you will be deemed a hard-working person if you make it into med school. Stacey's mom has got it going on!
 
smeagol said:
What is more admirable? Surely it is hard work. But it seems almost anyone can be hard working if they find the motivation.
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seeing as to how intelligence and work ethics both have strong genetic factors, i don't see why hard work should be more admirable.
 
are you saying there's a correlation btw. IQ and being an MD? I think there is. We should make that a thread of it's own.
 
If a man were truly intelligent, he would see that hard work is the motor in which his fortuitously endowed luxury vehicle depends on.
 
Both are necessary to be a good physician.
 
This question really hinges on what type of person you are.
  • If you picked intelligence, you prefer simplicity and convenience. You are also easily seduced by material things.
  • If you picked hard work, you are more into values and morals. You also don't see life as a race but as a means to self-fulfillment.
 
Work ethic will get you farther in medical school and medicine in general.
 
I don't understand how anyone would pick work ethic. The sheer fact that hard work is easier to come by makes intelligence more compelling. Anyone can work hard, but how many people are true geniuses. Would you really ever pick a cubic zirconia over a diamond? Please.
 
Can't hard work make a person intelligent ?

My theory is that there's NOTHING that can't be accomplished with hard-work...you just need dedication and good work ethic.
 
AlXguy said:
Can't hard work make a person intelligent ?

My theory is that there's NOTHING that can't be accomplished with hard-work...you just need dedication and good work ethic.
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i think you'd be surprised how dumb some people are. btw, do you think simply anyone can become the Chess World Champion with hard work alone? What about scoring 45T on an MCAT? You think with enough hard work anybody can do that?
 
I choose keys #3 & #4 - Wisdom & Motivation

Since I already know that I have at least a sufficient amount of native intelligence to be able to accumulate knowledge, and I already know how to work, I want the wisdom to use and obtain knowledge appropriately, and to be able to realize and motivate myself to put in the appropriate amount of work to do what needs to be done. I want that metaphysical intelligence so that I understand where I'm solid & what needs to be filled in.

I'm assuming everyone on here has at least minimally sufficient intelligence to learn what he needs to, and that everyone knows how to work. Not everyone will have the wisdom to know when to put that work ethic into overdrive or when to ease up, and not everyone will be sufficiently motivated to do what needs to be done when it needs doing. They may say they do, but w/o the follow through, they don't have it.

I'll take all four, thank you. Intelligence - Work Ethic - Wisdom - Motivation
 
Work ethic is definitely good given a certain level of intelligence. You always hear about someone who wasn't the brightest kid in class but worked hard and achieved greatness (Einstein). However I would agree with the unforgiving nature of medicine fostering the fact that it's easier to develop a work ethic given a high level of intelligence than to power through it with a lower level.

On another note, this reminds me of a discussion I had with a friend. What would you rather your children have: good looks or great personality?
 
Monarch Kong said:
On another note, this reminds me of a discussion I had with a friend. What would you rather your children have: good looks or great personality?
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Great personality, of course, because I'd have to live with them and because if they really were my children, they'd automatically be good looking.
 
intelligence IS something you can learn...depending on how you define intelligence. I doubt many doctors are genius because geniuses usually go for phd's or go crazy (or both...).


anyways, id rather be hardworking than intelligent, because at least i know im giving it 100%. Plus, intelligent (lazy) people are sometimes failures, but hardworking people will usually find a way to work their way up.
 
TeaKae said:
I thought we valued money the most?😕
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the sad thing is, there is truth in your sarcasm...subconsciously, women are all just as superficial as men. women never admit it, men do...
 
paranoid, I think you mistook my honesty for sarcasm...I was admitting it.
 
TeaKae said:
paranoid, I think you mistook my honesty for sarcasm...I was admitting it.
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nice. now you've really got me confused (but women generally tend to have this effect on me after the first week):laugh::laugh:
 
Ha... Pre meds...

If I only had to pick one it would be hard work. However, hard work can only get you so far, if you want to be the best you have to have intelligence.

But if you get into med school, you will rarely see anybody that does not work hard and is stupid - it doesn't exist very often here. The people at the top of the class are not only the smartest ppl you will ever meet in your life, they are also the hardest working.
 
easilydoctor said:
This question really hinges on what type of person you are.
  • If you picked intelligence, you prefer simplicity and convenience. You are also easily seduced by material things.
  • If you picked hard work, you are more into values and morals. You also don't see life as a race but as a means to self-fulfillment.
Click to expand...

haha, a psych major pre-med is among us
 
AlXguy said:
Can't hard work make a person intelligent ?

My theory is that there's NOTHING that can't be accomplished with hard-work...you just need dedication and good work ethic.
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add above average intelligence. I agree with you though
 
Monarch Kong said:
Work ethic is definitely good given a certain level of intelligence. You always hear about someone who wasn't the brightest kid in class but worked hard and achieved greatness (Einstein). However I would agree with the unforgiving nature of medicine fostering the fact that it's easier to develop a work ethic given a high level of intelligence than to power through it with a lower level.

On another note, this reminds me of a discussion I had with a friend. What would you rather your children have: good looks or great personality?
Click to expand...

einstein not a bright kid? Rethink that one
 
veaselhaufen said:
add above average intelligence. I agree with you though
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What is average intelligence? I believe anybody with average intelligence combined with hard work can achieve great things. Below average I think there is a glass ceiling.


Hard-Work is the great equalizer, those with natural intelligence rarely have advanced work ethics because simply do not need to. But there always comes a time where intelligence is simply not enough.

I have yet to see the day where somebody who works both intelligently (effiencetly) and hard hasnt achieved great things.


I have many instances where the intelligent/gifted have been on the bottom of the curve.

intelligence + hardwork..... I find those people who truely have both, would be the last to tell you they vaule intelligence over hard work. Just an observation.
 
easilydoctor said:
This question really hinges on what type of person you are.
  • If you picked intelligence, you prefer simplicity and convenience. You are also easily seduced by material things.
  • If you picked hard work, you are more into values and morals. You also don't see life as a race but as a means to self-fulfillment.
Click to expand...
That's ridiculous. Sounds like some tarrot card or palm reading BS. Surely there are people who are hard workers that still picked intelligence, and intelligent people who picked hard work. And the motivations behind choosing one or the other are surely quite varied. Your simplistic assumptions betray that fact.
 
Monarch Kong said:
Work ethic is definitely good given a certain level of intelligence. You always hear about someone who wasn't the brightest kid in class but worked hard and achieved greatness (Einstein).
Click to expand...
Erm, you should probably choose another example to make your point. Einstein was always a true genius, and didn't do well in some subjects (he was always a prodigy in math) due to a lack of effort.

The idea that he was of reasonable intelligence and "worked his way to general relativity" is preposterous. :laugh:
 
smq123 said:
This may be very true in MS1 and MS2.

But, at least at the school that we both attend, hard work will almost ALWAYS trump intelligence in MS3 and MS4. The key to doing well on rotations is, basically, being able to say "Yes, Dr. XYZ, I would be very happy to pre-round on your patients at 4:45 AM" or "Sure, Dr. GHI, I would love to scrub into your 6 hour long surgery with you tonight" without a hint of sarcasm in your voice. This is especially true because Jefferson separates your shelf exam score from your clinical evaluations grade. Your evals are worth twice what your shelf exam score is - basically, even if you honor the shelf, it won't make up for the "Good" or "Marginal Pass" that you got on the rotation.

Hard work (and the ability to look interested and enthusiastic without looking phony) will trump sheer intelligence during the last couple years of med school.
Click to expand...

of course I've always seen that as a given... You can chalk up interpersonal skills as just as important in what you describe (which I'd classify in the intelligence category...if not simply just life experience).
 
maestro1625 said:
of course I've always seen that as a given... You can chalk up interpersonal skills as just as important in what you describe (which I'd classify in the intelligence category...if not simply just life experience).
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Yeah, interpersonal skills play into it. And yes - it's a type of intelligence (i.e. knowing how to get along with all types of people.) But if you have good interpersonal skills, and still don't work very hard, you'll get the "Nice kid, means well, hope he doesn't enter this field though" types of comments. Plus, if you don't work hard and inadvertantly screw over the other med students on the team, your interpersonal skills won't carry you very far.
 
I vote for sheer bloody-mindedness.
 
osli said:
Erm, you should probably choose another example to make your point. Einstein was always a true genius, and didn't do well in some subjects (he was always a prodigy in math) due to a lack of effort.

The idea that he was of reasonable intelligence and "worked his way to general relativity" is preposterous. :laugh:
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I believe he did well in all of his subjects. It is a common misconception that he failed some subjects. At least that is what I remember reading from his latest biography.
 
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