Interested in a competitive specialty but there seems to be so many people interested as well. I sometimes wonder if I should give up for a safer one

[CuriousMDStudent]

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Title sums it up but more details below.

Background on my situation: I'm an MS1 attending a T20 who has identified a research mentor in this field. However, I noticed that there seem to be many other students interested in this competitive specialty (based on interest group talks we have had so far, I estimate at least 20 so far as that was the # of people attending) but we only match 10 people each year in that specialty. Also, my home program has only 8 spots and they take up to 4-6 students from our school.

Question, in more detail: With STEP 1 being P/F, I feel there is so much uncertainty in the future process. My fear is that I apply for this competitive specialty and I end up unmatched because of all the competition. I feel I'm well situated as I'm attending a good school that actually has a great reputation for the specialty I'm interested in but there are like a good amount of other people going for this specialty as well. However, it just seems there's so much competition and I feel a little intimidated right now. I'm very confident in my abilities as a student but I'm just worried that there's so much competition that even if I do well and make a great app that I won't succeed as there seems to be way more people applying for it than there are residency spots.

Sorry if I sound naive but I'm looking for some wisdom/advice/input on how to deal with this fear/intimidation.

 

[Kracin]

I'm an MS1 attending a T20

Alright ima stop you right there. You're fine if you want to match competitively. It's largely self-selection for whether people apply to that competitive field.

 

[popopopop]

I'm a firm believer of doing what you love and I think you should go for your specialty! However, you should start off blocking thoughts about comparing yourself as it won't do you much good, especially in medicine. Some of your classmates might want to do that specialty, but they might change their mind later and so might you.

Just to note, you're in a better position d/t your t20 school and home program than thousands of DO students and a good chunk of MD programs without home programs. I would set your specialty as a goal, then analyze previous match data and aim for being an average or above average applicant. If you are flexible to locate geographically, you're more than likely match.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Ignore everyone else. You chase what you want.

 

[DoctwoB]

Title sums it up but more details below.

Background on my situation: I'm an MS1 attending a T20 who has identified a research mentor in this field. However, I noticed that there seem to be many other students interested in this competitive specialty (based on interest group talks we have had so far, I estimate at least 20 so far as that was the # of people attending) but we only match 10 people each year in that specialty. Also, my home program has only 8 spots and they take up to 4-6 students from our school.

Question, in more detail: With STEP 1 being P/F, I feel there is so much uncertainty in the future process. My fear is that I apply for this competitive specialty and I end up unmatched because of all the competition. I feel I'm well situated as I'm attending a good school that actually has a great reputation for the specialty I'm interested in but there are like a good amount of other people going for this specialty as well. However, it just seems there's so much competition and I feel a little intimidated right now. I'm very confident in my abilities as a student but I'm just worried that there's so much competition that even if I do well and make a great app that I won't succeed as there seems to be way more people applying for it than there are residency spots.

Sorry if I sound naive but I'm looking for some wisdom/advice/input on how to deal with this fear/intimidation.

As the above mentioned, coming from a good school you'll be just fine. Keep in mind it's MS1. Students are (appropriately) keeping an open mind and casting a wide net in looking at specialties. Many of those 20 students probably are going to multiple interest group meetings, as they should. Some will match in your desired specialty (which will probably change anyways). Some will not. Some other kids who weren't at the meeting will get interested in your specialty.

TLDR. Focus on school. Get your feet wet first, don't over commit to research and stuff before you have a handle on med school. Departments won't care that you didn't get involved until MS2/3. They will care if you start research projects and don't follow through. Once you have a handle on med school if you are pretty set on that specialty start making connections with faculty to get involved with research. You'll be fine.

 

[sloh]

Title sums it up but more details below.

Background on my situation: I'm an MS1 attending a T20 who has identified a research mentor in this field. However, I noticed that there seem to be many other students interested in this competitive specialty (based on interest group talks we have had so far, I estimate at least 20 so far as that was the # of people attending) but we only match 10 people each year in that specialty. Also, my home program has only 8 spots and they take up to 4-6 students from our school.

Question, in more detail: With STEP 1 being P/F, I feel there is so much uncertainty in the future process. My fear is that I apply for this competitive specialty and I end up unmatched because of all the competition. I feel I'm well situated as I'm attending a good school that actually has a great reputation for the specialty I'm interested in but there are like a good amount of other people going for this specialty as well. However, it just seems there's so much competition and I feel a little intimidated right now. I'm very confident in my abilities as a student but I'm just worried that there's so much competition that even if I do well and make a great app that I won't succeed as there seems to be way more people applying for it than there are residency spots.

Sorry if I sound naive but I'm looking for some wisdom/advice/input on how to deal with this fear/intimidation.

Program directors will place more importance on step 2

 

[redsox93]

During M1 there were probably 10 people from my class that went to the plastic surgery interest group meetings. As an M4 there are a total of 0 people in my class applying. These meetings mean nothing. Even if they did, it shouldn't matter if its what you really want to do.

 

[slowthai]

Yeah, most med students change their mind anyway, due to step or other factors. Regardless, what other people want should have zero effect on what you want to do. Keep gunning.

 

[collegestud2013]

Title sums it up but more details below.

Background on my situation: I'm an MS1 attending a T20 who has identified a research mentor in this field. However, I noticed that there seem to be many other students interested in this competitive specialty (based on interest group talks we have had so far, I estimate at least 20 so far as that was the # of people attending) but we only match 10 people each year in that specialty. Also, my home program has only 8 spots and they take up to 4-6 students from our school.

Question, in more detail: With STEP 1 being P/F, I feel there is so much uncertainty in the future process. My fear is that I apply for this competitive specialty and I end up unmatched because of all the competition. I feel I'm well situated as I'm attending a good school that actually has a great reputation for the specialty I'm interested in but there are like a good amount of other people going for this specialty as well. However, it just seems there's so much competition and I feel a little intimidated right now. I'm very confident in my abilities as a student but I'm just worried that there's so much competition that even if I do well and make a great app that I won't succeed as there seems to be way more people applying for it than there are residency spots.

Sorry if I sound naive but I'm looking for some wisdom/advice/input on how to deal with this fear/intimidation.

You're right that matching into the most competitive specialties is often uncertain, even for the strongest applicants. With Step 1 becoming P/F school reputation will matter more and you're at T20 school which will help. I would do as much research in this specialty as possible and start early to keep your doors open to this specialty, but at the same time find a less competitive backup specialty over the next 2-3 years that you also enjoy given the uncertainty of matching. Incoming M1s generally lean strongly toward interest in the most competitive specialties because they get the most attention among premeds. However, statistically speaking more than half of med students will end up matching into a different specialty that the one they planned on doing at the start of M1 year, and the switch is more often from a more competitive specialty to a less competitive one (and less often the other way around). Some switch because of true interest in a new specialty, others switch out once they realize their USMLE scores and grades are not competitive for their specialty. Another downside of a P/F Step 1 is that med students now won't know if their USMLE scores are competitive until getting their Step 2 CK score at the end of M3 or beginning of M4. And it's possible for anyone to have a bad test day (eg getting sick the night before) and score a lot lower than their practice scores, so in case they happens 3 years from now having a backup specialty will make the switch easier than going unmatched.

 

[longhaul3]

If there are 10 people from your school who match in this specialty every year, it's either not that competitive or your school is such a powerhouse that it won't matter. The only specialty I can think of that is both extremely competitive and big enough for one school consistently to match 10 people every year is ortho. Maybe ophtho at the ultra-elite schools.

 

[Smurfette]

1. You're an MS1. A lot will happen over the next few years and you may find something else interests you more. Do not worry about others, just worry about yourself and doing the best you can to keep your options open.
2. Interest groups mean nothing. Some people will go to all the various interest groups just to participate and learn more. Some go for free food at meetings (when allowed to meet in person). Other people seem like they are hard core, only to decide on something completely different later on. They are just for exploring an interest. No one cares down the road if you were or weren't in the interest group when you submit your residency apps. Do not assume everyone in an interest group is *really* going to apply to the field, because they aren't.
3. There is no "limit" as to how many people can go into a field from each school. You can apply all across the country and as long as someone ranks you high enough, you match. Your classmates don't affect your own application. Within a school, sometimes one field has a big year, sometimes they don't. Others are more steady. Pick a field based on your interests.
4. If you have proper advising as a MS4, if you are trying for something really competitive, they will discuss a back up plan with you based on how strong a candidate you are. It is way too early to worry about not matching when there is no relevant info to base your chances on.

 

[FMDoge2020]

Just go for it and have a back up plan in mind.

Also attendance doesn't mean interest. I went to almost every surgical interest group meeting because they had the best food. Never wanted to do surgery. Got good at suturing pig skin though.

 

[efle]

Crowded field disadvantage is a very real thing. We have ~10 people in one class planning to apply ENT and the advisors are nervous about that. It's not just about filling up all the home slots - it's also that PDs will make comparisons within the group applying from your school and so the stronger apps will tend to hog the interviews. I can think of one example last year where one applicant got 40+ interviews and another SOAPed. Both had good apps.

But, you're in MS1, there is no real way to tell which exact fields will end up being popular among your class in 3 years. You yourself might end up changing your mind - even if you've had some shadowing experience to confirm you like this specialty, something else might surprise you as being even more enjoyable that you haven't tried yet.

So there's really nothing to be done right now. Letting yourself feel anxious over something you can't address is not productive. Squash it. " You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength. " - Marcus Aurelius. Learning to live with that mindset will make your med school journey much less painful, because you have to weather a long barrage of stressors that you can't control. How many classmates are interested in the same area as you is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[7331poas]

Crowded field disadvantage is a very real thing. We have ~10 people in one class planning to apply ENT and the advisors are nervous about that. It's not just about filling up all the home slots - it's also that PDs will make comparisons within the group applying from your school and so the stronger apps will tend to hog the interviews. I can think of one example last year where one applicant got 40+ interviews and another SOAPed. Both had good apps.

But, you're in MS1, there is no real way to tell which exact fields will end up being popular among your class in 3 years. You yourself might end up changing your mind - even if you've had some shadowing experience to confirm you like this specialty, something else might surprise you as being even more enjoyable that you haven't tried yet.

So there's really nothing to be done right now. Letting yourself feel anxious over something you can't address is not productive. Squash it. " You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength. " - Marcus Aurelius. Learning to live with that mindset will make your med school journey much less painful, because you have to weather a long barrage of stressors that you can't control. How many classmates are interested in the same area as you is just the tip of the iceberg.

Definitely. Same thing happens in neurosurg. If you are small program without a home nsg department, dont count on having more than 2 matches.

 

[CougarMD]

Also, don’t discount the year-long interview of MS3 year. I basically started campaigning for residency and my current academic job in MS3 year. I was approachable, took feedback well, communicated well, was friendly with all members of the healthcare team, and was memorable without being annoying. 7 years later, people remembered all of these encounters, and they were essential for getting the residency and the job offers that I got.
When people enjoy working with you, they want to keep you around. I’m not telling you to give yourself a personality disorder to accomplish it, but not being a jerk and *consistently* working hard goes a very very long way.

 

[deleted688779]

Any advice for someone not at a T20 who wants to match at a competitive specialty, to which historically my school only matches 3-5 and currently it seems like 20 students my class alone are gunning for it? Also, research is somewhat limited and I have yet to identify a mentor, meanwhile the large amount of students who went there for undergrad already have projects.

 

[Ho0v-man]

The reason competitive specialties are competitive is because lots of people want them.

 

[efle]

The reason competitive specialties are competitive is because lots of people want them.

One could argue it's because they keep the number of training slots very restricted. In terms of interested candidates with all doors open, the notoriously competitive fields (like derm, plastics, ENT) aren't really leading the pack in popularity. They're just tiny fields. RadOnc doubling their training slots, crashing their own job market, and now failing to fill many of their slots is a great example of the supply side being the real determinant of competitiveness and desirability!

 

[slowthai]

One could argue it's because they keep the number of training slots very restricted. In terms of interested candidates with all doors open, the notoriously competitive fields (like derm, plastics, ENT) aren't really leading the pack in popularity. They're just tiny fields. RadOnc doubling their training slots, crashing their own job market, and now failing to fill many of their slots is a great example of the supply side being the real determinant of competitiveness and desirability!

Yeah, a textbook example of this artificially created competitiveness is pediatric surgery; 24 spots with 100 applicants if I recall correctly. I'm pretty sure most GS residents aren't gunning for pedi surg, but it's the most competitive match by far. The only other comparable match on the residency side is I6.

 

[Ho0v-man]

One could argue it's because they keep the number of training slots very restricted. In terms of interested candidates with all doors open, the notoriously competitive fields (like derm, plastics, ENT) aren't really leading the pack in popularity. They're just tiny fields. RadOnc doubling their training slots, crashing their own job market, and now failing to fill many of their slots is a great example of the supply side being the real determinant of competitiveness and desirability!

excellent point. I guess “lots of people relative to available spots” should’ve been the way I worded it.

 

[Davidfromcali]

One could argue it's because they keep the number of training slots very restricted. In terms of interested candidates with all doors open, the notoriously competitive fields (like derm, plastics, ENT) aren't really leading the pack in popularity. They're just tiny fields. RadOnc doubling their training slots, crashing their own job market, and now failing to fill many of their slots is a great example of the supply side being the real determinant of competitiveness and desirability!

Very true; in a small field like ENT, an extra 50 applicants in the following cycle can dramatically change the competitiveness of that cycle. Pretty crazy stuff