Interesting article from pre-med forum...

[UltimateHombre]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Hey friends! Found this article while i was browsing through the premed forum... The article is written by a girl who claims that the competition of being premed, somehow weeds out the compassionate people. She further argues that the value of compassion outweighs being intelligent.

Although this is premed, i think it also correlates well with being predent. I know what i think, but what are your thoughts? Should all compassionate people be able to become doctors? Which trait is more important? Is competition for school admittance a good thing or bad thing?

http://thedartmouth.com/2012/01/12/opinion/colaneri

 

[hifive]

I dont think competition weeds out compassionate people necessarily because competitive people can be compassionate too. But, I do think that gpa and professional exams are too heavily weighted as selection criteria and in combination with 1 interview to determine someones true characteristics this becomes a game of numbers and compassion cannot be measured as a number therefore is left out of the selections. Unfortunately (and fortunately) we dont have a way of measuring how kind hearted or "good" one is. The process is quite cruel and sometimes compassionate people that would make excellent doctors/dentist do not have the numbers are filtered out and we lose them too jobs that dont make use of their compassion and kindness. Definitely makes me wonder sometimes.

 

[iralex801]

You can have the best of intentions but in the end, you might cause more harm than good because you were inadequate to help.

Eh, this is hard though. I'm not really sure where I stand. In the end I just guess it comes to this. Do you want a really intelligent, cold-hearted doctor or a semi-intelligent, compassionate doctor. House the show comes to mind lol.

I mean there are some people who are highly intelligent and compassionate also. And like the previous poster said, you can't measure compassion. So you just gotta take your chances with stats and hopefully these people are compassionate as well.

Well, if you think from it as an economic standpoint, it doesn't really matter if your intention for being a doctor is. At the end, the patient gets what he wants and the doctor gets what he wants.

Lol these are just a bunch of random ideas that came to my head when I read the OP.

 

[mike ashley]

Sometimes I wonder if this country is secretly being run by soccer moms. Oh well, it's only a matter of time before they do away with grades, test scores, and anything else that requires hard work.

Participation ribbons and orange slices for everyone as our society continues to advance towards nirvana!!!!

*GROUP HUG*

 

[Ullr]

You can have the best of intentions but in the end, you might cause more harm than good because you were inadequate to help.

I mean there are some people who are highly intelligent and compassionate also. And like the previous poster said, you can't measure compassion. So you just gotta take your chances with stats and hopefully these people are compassionate as well.

Well said.

I have seen this a lot though. As for me, its one of the things that inspired me. I always offer whatever help I can to my fellow students.... and I made it into d school anyway 👍

 

[doc toothache]

It might be believable if it were easy to distinguish between those that are truly compassionate and those that are lip singing the tune.

 

[Regmata]

Should compassion be so highly valued? I would take a doctor who is knows his medicine and makes his decisions primarily based off of science and sound clinical experience. Mix in a touch of empathy and give the news to me straight, with a well polished bedside manner and we are golden.

If your knowledge, medical/dental skills, communication skills and ethics are top notch, you will be a good practitioner. Sure, compassion is great, but when push comes to shove, I want decisions about my care made based off of sound medical knowleldge and on my personal wishes/goals for my care. Unfortunately, sometimes feelings and good intentions can get in the way of good care.

 

[flapaTron]

compassion and skill are not mutually exclusive. sure it's unfortunate when a skilled practitioner is a douche, but as Reg said, ultimately having medical skill is the bottom line.

 

[dantemac]

I argue that universities can do just as much as the students in fostering compassion. There are many group exercises, case studies, etc. that can force people to work together and use their morality. Also, undergrads and even dental schools who use rotations into the community and community outreach can forge good ethical conduct into their dentists.

 

[Sunspear]

I think that we should be careful to not just limit our discussion around the word "compassion", but also **communication skills**. Too often, doctors and dentists are not able to effectively communicate - which, yes, tends to incorporate the ability to be compassionate. You can be the smartest, most intelligent, best-able-to-memorize-the-krebs-cycle person out there, but if you can't listen well or deliver information properly, then it doesn't amount to much, does it?

 

[yappy]

If you're my surgeon, radiation oncologist, or anesthesiologist etc. etc. the only thing that matters to me in the long haul is outcomes. If you're that gifted just work your magic and let the nurse break it down for me.

I think that we should be careful to not just limit our discussion around the word "compassion", but also **communication skills**. Too often, doctors and dentists are not able to effectively communicate - which, yes, tends to incorporate the ability to be compassionate. You can be the smartest, most intelligent, best-able-to-memorize-the-krebs-cycle person out there, but if you can't listen well or deliver information properly, then it doesn't amount to much, does it?

 

[Sunspear]

If you're my surgeon, radiation oncologist, or anesthesiologist etc. etc. the only thing that matters to me in the long haul is outcomes. If you're that gifted just work your magic and let the nurse break it down for me.

This robot mentality does nothing if the correct outcome requires any sort of conversation to take place between doctor and patient.

 

[AwesomeTeeth]

This robot mentality does nothing if the correct outcome requires any sort of conversation to take place between doctor and patient.

Except that a radiologist or pathologist doesn't ever have to talk to patients. You don't need compassion in all forms of medicine.

 

[Sunspear]

Except that a radiologist or pathologist doesn't ever have to talk to patients. You don't need compassion in all forms of medicine.

My argument was: good communications skills are necessary. You're addressing a point I didn't make.

 

[AwesomeTeeth]

My argument was: good communications skills are necessary. You're addressing a point I didn't make.

Good communications skills are unnecessary. A good brain is a much better requirement.

 

[hifive]

I think good communication skills are great to have but over the years I have noticed they are highly overrated and have no correlation to intelligence. Sorry I think I am just bitter... lost to journalism student on science topic at a debate comp.

 

[AlbinoPolarBear]

My argument was: good communications skills are necessary. You're addressing a point I didn't make.

Good communication skills can be assessed over the interview.

 

[AlbinoPolarBear]

I think good communication skills are great to have but over the years I have noticed they are highly overrated and have no correlation to intelligence. Sorry I think I am just bitter... lost to journalism student on science topic at a debate comp.

Exactly. The article OP posted was ridiculous.

The premed courses weed out those who cannot handle the med school curriculum. Even if they won a prize for being the nicest person in the world, there's no point of admitting a person who will likely fail out due to the harsh demands of med school.

Also, if the students cannot handle the "pressure cooker" environment of premed, how are they supposed to handle the "building on fire" world of medicine?

 

[UltimateHombre]

Exactly. The article OP posted was ridiculous.

The premed courses weed out those who cannot handle the med school curriculum. Even if they won a prize for being the nicest person in the world, there's no point of admitting a person who will likely fail out due to the harsh demands of med school.

Also, if the students cannot handle the "pressure cooker" environment of premed, how are they supposed to handle the "building on fire" world of medicine?

APB i couldn't agree more!! I think that the author of the article, was just pissed they couldn't pass the weed out courses. She makes it seem as if a person can only have one trait... either intelligence or compassion, like both isn't possible?! Fact is not everyone can be doctors and just being compassionate will not make you a good doctor. First and foremost a doctor (of any sorts) needs to be competent and skilled at what they do. Compassion is a secondary role IMO.

Sure i can be as compassionate/helpful as i want, but if i do not have the skills and ability to do so, all that that compassion will go toward nothing.

Furthermore, i don't think that compassion is the same thing as communication skills. Although i do think they are important... it is again secondary... the actual ability is what is important.

Overall, the ideal doctor would have awesome communication skills, compassion, and intelligence. Or basically have the desire to help people, be able to convey that in a kind, simple and confident way, and actually have the ability to do it.

I think good communication skills are great to have but over the years I have noticed they are highly overrated and have no correlation to intelligence. Sorry I think I am just bitter... lost to journalism student on science topic at a debate comp.

And sorry as someone that has been in sales the past 4 years, on the speech and debate team, and a communication major.... i have to respectfully disagree. Maybe they are "overrated", but the results communication skills yield are not (as evidenced by your loss on the science topic). For better or worst the ability to communicate better often leads to people thinking you are more confident, credible, and personable.

 

[iralex801]

And sorry as someone that has been in sales the past 4 years, on the speech and debate team, and a communication major.... i have to respectfully disagree. Maybe they are "overrated", but the results communication skills yield are not (as evidenced by your loss on the science topic). For better or worst the ability to communicate better often leads to people thinking you are more confident, credible, and personable.

First thought that came into my mind when reading this was Barack Obama lol. I think he meant communication in terms of being a medical professional.

 

[Ullr]

Good communications skills are unnecessary.

Only if you NEVER make a mistake. 🙄

 

[UltimateHombre]

First thought that came into my mind when reading this was Barack Obama lol. I think he meant communication in terms of being a medical professional.

Even in terms of being a medical professional, the same rule applies. Especially when considering your chair side manner and you are explaining your Tx for your patient. Your want your patient to trust you that a RCT and crown is a better option, than a simple extraction, even though it is a $1500 difference. Any medical professional in most (if not all) situations wants to come off confident, credentialed, trustworthy, and personable.

 

[AwesomeTeeth]

I'm not arguing with you guys when you say that a family doctor or internist or any dentist needs to be personable and have good communication skills.

But for someone who's a pathologist or a radiologist and sits in a room all day with case studies/x-rays or microscopes, no one cares how personable they are as long as they can make the right diagnosis. Medical has a lot more options if you're not the compassionate extrovert. It's not necessary that everyone has to fit the mold of kind, caring Dr. Lollipops.

As for good communication skills, as long as you do well on the MCAT verbal and can speak at the interviews, you have decent enough communication skills to be a doctor.

 

[destinedsirius]

I dont care if House will be verbally abusive or be a jerk to me. If he can save my life, that's the doctor I want.

 

[iralex801]

I dont care if House will be verbally abusive or be a jerk to me. If he can save my life, that's the doctor I want.

I agree. However, in real life, most of the stunts he pulls off would kill the patient .