Interesting article: medicine is just a job

[Chromium Surfer]

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work...u/news-story/4ab0a8c59dbcf3aba5efe2037a920cfd

A friend shared this article with me. An EM physician wrote about his experiences and how he views his role as physician as well as his interactions with others about whether medicine is more than just a job. It is an interesting read and I am curious to hear the thoughts of others.

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[wizzed101]

I am so sorry.

 

[Chromium Surfer]

I am so sorry.

Why? I actually agreed with the Crux of this article before reading it. For me the thing that will be the most important to me is my family and faith and I will fit medicine around these things.

Or if there is another reason you are saying sorry please expound haha

 

[md-2020]

I mean this is SDN so what type of reactions are you gonna get really?

Inb4 the "medicine is a calling" flood comes in I'll venture that I agree with the vast majority of his article completely and found it a fantastic (albeit quick, as I must return to studying the calling of medicine) read.

 

[wizzed101]

Meanings are personal. I just feel sorry because the author felt that way.

Listen, no matter how we like to hold up ourselves as the pillars of compassion, the keepers of the public wellbeing, we are just one profession out of countless others that keep our world moving. We are no more heroes than the social worker visiting homes in the projects, the farmer up at 4am to feed the cattle, the ironworker strapped to a beam on the 50th floor. We are no more a hero than the single mom working overnight as a custodian, trying to feed her kids. We are no more heroic than countless others who work in jobs they perhaps hate in order to care for and support the people they love.

Then we are heroic in our own's ways. Isn't that wonderful?

 

[Chromium Surfer]

I mean this is SDN so what type of reactions are you gonna get really?

Inb4 the "medicine is a calling" flood comes in I'll venture that I agree with the vast majority of his article completely and found it a fantastic (albeit quick, as I must return to studying the calling of medicine) read.

True I guess I just wanted to inject some fresh perspective! But I was also interested in hearing the arguments people made for why they thing medicine is more than just a job.

 

[aalamruad]

The only doc I've personally heard this kind of message from is an ER doc too. I wonder if there's something about the shift work of EM that makes it feel less like a lifestyle and more like "just a job."

 

[skrolls]

A career in medicine will be whatever you make it, just like any other field. If you want it to just be your job, that's okay. If you want it to be more than that, that's fine too.

 

[ChrisMack390]

Medicine is just a job. However, if you aren't very passionate about doing the job, it is a pretty stupid one to pick. Why sign up for 10+ years of training and 200k+ in debt if you aren't very committed to it?

 

[pulmoblast]

It's a just another job if you work shifts (like ED). It becomes your life when you carry a pager around to weddings. At that point, it better mean something more than just a job, else you are a schmuck


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[libertyyne]

This just in. Rain is wet.

 

[libertyyne]

Medicine is just a job. However, if you aren't very passionate about doing the job, it is a pretty stupid one to pick. Why sign up for 10+ years of training and 200k+ in debt if you aren't very committed to it?

Every job is like that. Eventually tastes change and it becomes the same. Learning to enjoy the now and living in the now is how this is overcome.

 

[ChrisMack390]

Every job is like that. Eventually tastes change and it becomes the same. Learning to enjoy the now and living in the now is how this is overcome.

Every job requires 4 years of graduate school plus an additional 3-7 years of training?

 

[libertyyne]

Every job requires 4 years of graduate school plus an additional 3-7 years of training?

You are focusing on the wrong part. If you are a doctor or training to be one the schooling and residency is your job. Heck. You get paid for residency.
Every job becomes monotonous, boring, just a job regardless of how much passion you have for it. It is the human condition.

 

[kb1900]

You are focusing on the wrong part. If you are a doctor or training to be one the schooling and residency is your job. Heck. You get paid for residency.
Every job becomes monotonous, boring, just a job regardless of how much passion you have for it. It is the human condition.

Thats a questionable statement - especially in medicine.

 

[libertyyne]

Thats a questionable statement - especially in medicine.

Well only one way to find out. Make an effort to reach me on here if you feel that way many years from now.

 

[wizzed101]

Every job becomes monotonous, boring, just a job regardless of how much passion you have for it. It is the human condition.

What is the difference between performing a task (job) and say, eating? Surely, you do not consider eating a job. If being a doctor becomes part of your identity and you are no more without it, it should transcend "just jobs," correct?

 

[ChrisMack390]

You are focusing on the wrong part. If you are a doctor or training to be one the schooling and residency is your job. Heck. You get paid for residency.
Every job becomes monotonous, boring, just a job regardless of how much passion you have for it. It is the human condition.

If you perceive medicine as just another job, why not get an undergrad degree in engineering or computer science instead? You'll be making more than a resident or a fellow makes with fewer hours per week before your 24th birthday.

 

[IgEdoc]

Interesting article...early in my career, I would have disagreed with the article, but now, many years later, my wife remarks to me that "your job sure gets in the way of your life"; how very true.

 

[wizzed101]

Interesting article...early in my career, I would have disagreed with the article, but now, many years later, my wife remarks to me that "your job sure gets in the way of your life"; how very true.

Then you have to either change your job or life. If you change your job, however, you cannot post on SDN as an attending anymore. I think the choice is pretty clear.

 

[libertyyne]

If you perceive medicine as just another job, why not get an undergrad degree in engineering or computer science instead? You'll be making more than a resident or a fellow makes with fewer hours per week before your 24th birthday.

There is no need to dissuade me at this point or attack my desire for medicine. My motivations for medicine are different I have had a different career already at this point. maybe you should listen to the countless doctors who see it as a job as well.

 

[kb1900]

Well only one way to find out. Make an effort to reach me on here if you feel that way many years from now.

nothing is monotonous if you care about it enough. I eat 2-3 meals per day, but as a foodie I'd hardly say that eating, even after 22 years of doing it, is monotonous considering the diversity of food I seek out/cook.

While not all fields are the same, the landscape of how medicine is practiced definitely changes with time and context. Monotonous is probably the last term I would use to describe medicine. (/day dreams about robots)

on a everyday basis there is variation from one patient relationship to another patient relationship, one case to another case, team to team etc. on a larger timescale there is variation (i.e. research) that changes how to best help your patients, asses & treat diseases etc.

its only when you treat your patients in a "monotonous way" that you can achieve that feeling. - and i'd say that feeling coincides with complacent sh*tty doctors who can't be bothered to keep up with the newest advances in the field or always treat their patients algorithmically. You might as well become a NP if thats the case and you don't want to engage in critical thinking for each and every patient.

I had this converstaion about monotony with my PI who has been in the same field for 3+ decades. Paraphrasing her, the entire point of entering a field with a scientific basis/foundation is that you get to be objective about your own successes/failures, those of others, and continually refine the lens that you view your work through.

but you're right when you say the only way to find out is to wait and see. im confident I'll never want to be part of the cohort of doctors who see their job as monotonous

 

[libertyyne]

What is the difference between performing a task (job) and say, eating? Surely, you do not consider eating a job. If being a doctor becomes part of your identity and you are no more without it, it should transcend "just jobs," correct?

That approach works for a little bit. You wouldn't eat the same meal every day would you ? Can you think of how it might feel eating the same meal every day for 20 years?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

This just in. Rain is wet.

This might be your best post yet.

If being a doctor becomes part of your identity and you are no more without it

Then your life really sucks. My job will not be any part of my identity, whether I am a garbage man or POTUS it won't matter.

 

[JPSmyth]

If you perceive medicine as just another job, why not get an undergrad degree in engineering or computer science instead? You'll be making more than a resident or a fellow makes with fewer hours per week before your 24th birthday.

Just to play devils advocate...

If you go into these fields out of college, and work for 10-15 years, what are the chances you make 400-500k a year? Next to none.

If you go to medical school and complete a radiology residency, your chances are almost 100%.

That's like saying "if you want a job that's high paying just play football and go to the NFL. you make 10mil a year and get a ton of time off!" Meanwhile your chances of reaching that elite level next to zero.

 

[kpop]

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work...u/news-story/4ab0a8c59dbcf3aba5efe2037a920cfd

A friend shared this article with me. An EM physician wrote about his experiences and how he views his role as physician as well as his interactions with others about whether medicine is more than just a job. It is an interesting read and I am curious to hear the thoughts of others.

Thanks for sharing this article! Interesting lunch break read

 

[wizzed101]

Then your life really sucks. My job will not be any part of my identity, whether I am a garbage man or POTUS it won't matter.

But that is not for you to decide. The second part of my argument refers to acceptance, hence, happiness. And you can choose to be unhappy; being a doctor, garbage man or POTUS doesn't matter.

 

[wizzed101]

That approach works for a little bit. You wouldn't eat the same meal every day would you ? Can you think of how it might feel eating the same meal every day for 20 years?

If the alternative is starving to death, I feel grateful to have food at all. I am breathing with the same rhythm for years now. It sucks.... not.

But that is a straw man. How about seeing the same patient for 20 years? Seeing your parents/spouses/children/friends in the same moment, with the same conversations, the same interactions for 20 years? You name one activity that you enjoy, then rewind the same thing to the smallest detail for 20 years, and it suddenly becomes a job. You walk. It's a job. You kiss your partner. It's a job. You pet your dog. It's a job. Your heart skips a beat seeing your dream person. It's a job.

What is not a job?

 

[ChrisMack390]

There is no need to dissuade me at this point or attack my desire for medicine. My motivations for medicine are different I have had a different career already at this point. maybe you should listen to the countless doctors who see it as a job as well.

Sorry - wasn't trying to dissuade/attack you. I meant "you" in a more general sense. I can't see why someone would go through with all of the years of training and debt if they were pretty passionate about this field. In fact many doctors/med students have told me something like "if you can picture yourself doing anything else, do that".

 

[ChymeofPassion]

People should keep in mind the amount of premeds who have never even held a job and can't draw parallels due to lack of experience.

 

[mistafab]

I enjoyed the read.

The vast majority of passionate people are just fine people. However the 'holier than thou' self-righteous crowd who says medicine is a passion and say "you are wrong for doing it for XYZ" are a bunch of egg-heads who can't see past their own up-turned nose.

Unfortunately for the rest of the world, the self-righteous crowd don't have to be doctors to be self-righteous.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

But that is not for you to decide. The second part of my argument refers to acceptance, hence, happiness. And you can choose to be unhappy; being a doctor, garbage man or POTUS doesn't matter.

What? My identity as a person is solely defined by who I am, not what I am, and it is 100% up to me. And acceptance by what or whom?

 

[Pusheen]

People should keep in mind the amount of premeds who have never even held a job and can't draw parallels due to lack of experience.

this should be a requirement for applying

 

[wizzed101]

What? My identity as a person is solely defined by who I am, not what I am, and it is 100% up to me. And acceptance by what or whom?

What you do is part of who you are. Yes it is up to you to choose what you do but its meaning- the label- is out of your control. Of course, you can choose to be an invisible man... without actually being invisible. You can accept that and be happy or spend your life lamenting "this is not who I am." If you spend >50% of your waking time doing a certain activity, it's hard to make a case against it.
Choose wisely.

People should keep in mind the amount of premeds who have never even held a job and can't draw parallels due to lack of experience.

And the ad hominem is here!

 

[ChymeofPassion]

What you do is part of who you are. Yes it is up to you to choose what you do but its meaning- the label- is out of your control. Of course, you can choose to be an invisible man... without actually being invisible. You can accept that and be happy or spend your life lamenting "this is not who I am." If you spend >50% of your waking time doing a certain activity, it's hard to make a case against it.
Choose wisely.


And the ad hominem is here!

"An ad hominem argument is one that is used to counter another argument; but, it is based on feelings or prejudice, rather than facts, reason or logic. It is often a personal attack on one's character rather than an attempt to address the issue at hand." Am I arguing based on my prejudice towards those that have never had a job? Am I attacking their character? No? Did I literally say in my sentence that people without having held a job may not be able to relate to what it means to have a job due to lack of experience? And that people who have had a job before can see similar aspects of "work" in medicine? Yes? Back to your freshman intro to rhetoric class you go.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

What you do is part of who you are.

It's really not. Not in the slightest.

If you spend >50% of your waking time doing a certain activity, it's hard to make a case against it.

No its not. What someone does as a career has nothing to do with the kind of person they are or WHO they are. Their identity and career are completely separate. If you think this way you need to get out and meet more people, some of the best people I have ever met had some of the lowest jobs society can offer. Never for one second have I ever thought about them in connection to what they did for work.

You have an extremely sheltered philosophical view that is nice in a classroom, but falls apart outside it. Those who tie people's identity to what they do for a living should rethink about what is actually important in life.

 

[wizzed101]

"An ad hominem argument is one that is used to counter another argument; but, it is based on feelings or prejudice, rather than facts, reason or logic. It is often a personal attack on one's character rather than an attempt to address the issue at hand." Am I arguing based on my prejudice towards those that have never had a job? Am I attacking their character? No? Did I literally say in my sentence that people without having held a job may not be able to relate to what it means to have a job due to lack of experience? And that people who have had a job before can see similar aspects of "work" in medicine? Yes? Back to your freshman intro to rhetoric class you go.

Did I literally say that your post was an ad hominem?

Spoiler

Did you think people are stupid or was just projecting?

Spoiler

If the latter was the case, it would be still not an ad hominem since there was no argument

It's really not. Not in the slightest.




No its not. What someone does as a career has nothing to do with the kind of person they are or WHO they are. Their identity and career are completely separate. If you think this way you need to get out and meet more people, some of the best people I have ever met had some of the lowest jobs society can offer. Never for one second have I ever thought about them in connection to what they did for work.

You have an extremely sheltered philosophical view that is nice in a classroom, but falls apart outside it. Those who tie people's identity to what they do for a living should rethink about what is actually important in life.

I mean you seem to take it as an offense if I refer to some of your best people as say garbage men. What's wrong with that?
And I've met people who are extremely proud of what they do and they cannot live without it, even their families take a backseat. Why should they rethink their life? They are happy.
Your beef with my argument was simply the fact that some people may be tied to what you deem lesser professions. Why are you so judgmental?

 

[tessellations]

Thanks for sharing this article! Interesting read. I really liked this part:

"Even though I prefaced it during my talk by elaborating and saying that medicine is a deeply rewarding career choice, I insisted that it’s not our life. I tried to express that it’s simply a wonderful, marvellous and mystical avenue to allow us the opportunity to pursue meaningful work, make a good living, support our families and to do a job that allows us to see and do many magical things."

Medicine is a rewarding career choice for many and can definitely be a calling but to ignore the "work" part of it to me feels shortsighted and naive. It's a job. That's a fact.

I don't totally agree with the author on other parts, particularly in terms of compassion. I think you can be compassionate without being too attached and he seems to downplay its importance. Nobody is perfect, including doctors, but I'd argue that compassion is a pretty damn important part of the job.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

even their families take a backseat. Why should they rethink their life?

If you don't see why they should rethink things then you are young, naive and have absolutely zero life experience. Anyone who lives this way and says they are truly happy is a liar. It's that simple.

Why are you so judgmental?

How you got this from my comments is beyond me.

 

[wizzed101]

If you don't see why they should rethink things then you are young, naive and have absolutely zero life experience. Anyone who lives this way and says they are truly happy is a liar. It's that simple.



How you got this from my comments is beyond me.

Surely you must've recoginzed the irony in that post. Or am I being trolled?

 

[medic0114]

Like others have voiced: medicine is absolutely a job. It is a job that usually requires an enormous time commitment, student loans and sacrifice. When people lose sight of that and solely identify as a [insert healthcare professional] and sacrifice every other aspect of their life, they typically become burned-out and miserable. Life is a balance, and that balance is the key to happiness and longevity in medicine.

 

[Holmwood]

From what I can see, it's got elements of a job and a passionate calling. It's not this or that.

Why does everything have to be so divisive all the time. . .

 

[deleted648172]

Because this is America?