Interesting video

[Podfather]

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So given the choice, why would people pay to be ACFAS members, which really doesn't have any political advantages, rather than being an APMA member? THAT makes absolutely NO sense to me. QUOTE]

Because many, including myself, join organizations for more reasons that political. ACFAS truly leads the profession and country in surgical education. Being part of ACFAS I feel I benefit in a different way than I do from APMA. They IMO are at the forefront of issues facing podiatric surgeon, provide top quality educational programs, and are involved in research and residency training. The Journal is top notch but going to a medical school to get it and not paying dues is wrong for the obvious reasons. It would be like if I benefited from legislation that APMA pushed through but wasn't a member. And you said no one has to join these affiliates. Well if they want to and do not want to be an APMA member how is that different? Choice is choice.

 

[347932]

There is a huge difference between not being an ACFAS member and not being an APMA member.

The APMA is the voice of our profession. The ACFAS is an educational body. You can get this education anywhere in the country imho. If you go to various conferences, you will likely see the same people who lecture at ACFAS and lecturing on the same topics as they do there.

Did you mean going to the Medical School to read JAPMA or to read the ACFAS journal? I read a lot of journals every month that I have no membership in their societies. JBJS Britain and American. Foot and Ankle Int. Clinics for Podaitry and other medical specialties. I don't follow what you were saying in that regard. That being said, I'm not sure almost anyone feels that JAPMA is a good enough reason to maintain membership within the APMA, BUT I do hear that people feel the ACFAS Journal IS a good enough reason to maintain their membership within ACFAS. No offense intended here, but I humbly disagree with that sentiment.

I have to be very honest that I struggle with the ACFAS membership issue every year. When I came out of residency everyone wanted to have that "FACFAS" after their name, so I was gung ho about it too. When I got Board Certified, I ran to get that "FACFAS", and now I just really scratch my head about it. I'm not really sure why exactly I keep paying my dues to the ACFAS. I really don't. No one I've ever met in the laymen community really cares or even knows what "FACFAS" is. All they care about is if I'm Board Certified or not.

How is ACFAS involved in residencies? Do they provide funding? Or once again, is it a matter of providing educational opportunities available anyway elsewhere?

 

[Podfather]

There is a huge difference between not being an ACFAS member and not being an APMA member.

The APMA is the voice of our profession. The ACFAS is an educational body. You can get this education anywhere in the country imho. If you go to various conferences, you will likely see the same people who lecture at ACFAS and lecturing on the same topics as they do there.

I would argue that whether you see them at a state meeting or the annual meeting these people do a lot to promote podiatric surgery and many DPMs (proven through 1,000s of evaluations) feel they benefit by seeing them. They are active in all facets of lower extemity surgery, write peer review articles, do research, produce clinical guidelines, create podcasts/videos help with surgical/H&P/hospital privileges and are surgical ambassadors.

I would agree that APMA is the political voice of our profession. I support them even though they have also been accused of being a good old boys club ( particularly in leadership roles) and many times I disagree with their opinions ( the leadership).

Have you attended an ACFAS surgical skills course? Are you active in your local division? Have you submitted an article to their journal? If so great. Many who say they feel left out want to enter at the lecturing, annual meetings, or skills courses but never have attended any ACFAS activites or worked at entry level positions (like most of the good old boys you describe). I laugh when someone wants to be a speaker right out of the box and when a better entry position is suggested they balk. Then the same organization that they wanted to lecture for now sucks. There are numerous committes ( not glamorous) that do incredible work. Like ABPS where many of the exam committee members and examiners entered on a committee or as a field tester. Most ( if not all) exam committee members are selected from our examiner pool. People who have put in the time and have a track record of doing their work.

Did you mean going to the Medical School to read JAPMA or to read the ACFAS journal? I read a lot of journals every month that I have no membership in their societies.

Yes but you can not be in those societies. But if you could and only use them for work that was paid for by their membership then I would say that is wrong too. BTW going to the library is so old school. LOL


JBJS Britain and American. Foot and Ankle Int. Clinics for Podaitry and other medical specialties. I don't follow what you were saying in that regard. That being said,

I'm not sure almost anyone feels that JAPMA is a good enough reason to maintain membership within the APMA,

I hope not because it sucks (just kidding calm down). But seriuosly the journal is just another benefit for the APMA membership




BUT I do hear that people feel the ACFAS Journal IS a good enough reason to maintain their membership within ACFAS. No offense intended here, but I humbly disagree with that sentiment.

Your opinion but I will say for me and many other podiatric surgeons (who also review many other journals) that it is the best available for lower extremity surgery and definitely the best for our profession. ASPS has some big shoe to fill there.

I have to be very honest that I struggle with the ACFAS membership issue every year. When I came out of residency everyone wanted to have that "FACFAS" after their name, so I was gung ho about it too. When I got Board Certified, I ran to get that "FACFAS", and now I just really scratch my head about it. I'm not really sure why exactly I keep paying my dues to the ACFAS. I really don't. No one I've ever met in the laymen community really cares or even knows what "FACFAS" is. All they care about is if I'm Board Certified or not.

I never joined ACFAS to say I was FACFAS. I joined and stay because I feel they provide an invaluable service to me and I guess so do 6,000 members. You look at this as some kind of status thing, Care what the layperson thinks, or what ACFAS can do to help you politically. Some us look at it as a collegial group of people with like interests. People who share ideas, spur research, and to share ideas with. The ultimate purpose is to become a better surgeon and this organization meets that goal. If you are not utlizing the membership or if you do not have the same goals then by all means do not renew your membership.. It's a choice. Why waste your money and besides ASPS will be happy to meet your needs.

How is ACFAS involved in residencies? Do they provide funding? Or once again, is it a matter of providing educational opportunities available anyway elsewhere?

They often lecture at residency functions. Have venues for residents to present papers, posters, and research. They provide peer reviewed articles that directors may use to teach. Train many residents a year at their skills courses (especially arthroscopy). Sponsor student chapters. Many active members are residency directors. Look I have repeatly stated I support APMA and have been in leadership roles. I respect what they do and remain a member. I am equally supportive of ACFAS. The day either no longer meets my expectations (after attempting change from within) I will walk. Seriously though, doubt that will ever happen.

 

[347932]

Years ago I sent in a manuscript for a review of metatarsal fractures, evalaution and management and was told that the Journal only solicites review articles from "experts". I am not an expert in the field of metatarsal fractures I guess.

The ONLY criteria that ACFAS uses to even consider you as a lecturer at one of their meetings is if you have attended one of their multiple meetings a year. If you have not been to one of their meetings within the last five years, you can't even hope to be selected as a potential speaker. I was also told by the Education Secretary(?) at ACFAS that even if I did come to the meeting, I have a slim chance of being selected as a speaker as they have such a full roster and they don't want to "step on anyone's toes". I lecture at 3-4 conferences a year and don't feel that after 6-7 years of being on the circuit, I need to spend more time away from my family and more money to go to a conference which even with all the BS, I would consider a privilege to lecture at. I gave up on it frankly, because I just don't get that mentality. Oh sorry, there is another way to get a lecture spot. To have a sponsor pay for it. But then it wouldn't be CME.

I support all of these institutions just like you do Podfather. What seems to be a little bit of difference in our experiences, is that I seem to find that they aren't perfect and also don't mind pointing it out. Just like you ask for change within the APMA with affiliates and loosening up their guidelines and bylaws, maybe other organziations should lead the way in that regard.

I think eventually when the ASPS increases its membership and "clout", it will strive to excel as well.

 

[Podfather]

Years ago I sent in a manuscript for a review of metatarsal fractures, evalaution and management and was told that the Journal only solicites review articles from "experts". I am not an expert in the field of metatarsal fractures I guess.

Please PM me with a copy of the letter saying that. I have reviewed submitted papers and what you say is completely untrue. If you can prove this to me I will question it. But there are no such criteria. It's all about science, quality of the study, and format.

The ONLY criteria that ACFAS uses to even consider you as a lecturer at one of their meetings is if you have attended one of their multiple meetings a year. If you have not been to one of their meetings within the last five years, you can't even hope to be selected as a potential speaker.

Why doesn't that make sense to you? You haven't been to any function in 5 years, they may suspect that you do not know the current format. The tracks for example at the annual meeting are completely different in their format than 5 years ago.

I was also told by the Education Secretary(?) at ACFAS that even if I did come to the meeting, I have a slim chance of being selected as a speaker as they have such a full roster and they don't want to "step on anyone's toes".

There are many people who volunteer their time as speakers. But step on toes? Here is the funny part. Some still think this is an ego thing. Do you know what most seasoned speakers complain about when assigned topics for seminars. That they have too many. Most would be happy with a couple. We do not like to work extra anymore than you. Here's the twist it's the newbie who complains "I should/deserve to be giving more talks".


I lecture at 3-4 conferences a year and don't feel that after 6-7 years of being on the circuit, I need to spend more time away from my family and more money to go to a conference which even with all the BS, I would consider a privilege to lecture at. I gave up on it frankly, because I just don't get that mentality. Oh sorry, there is another way to get a lecture spot. To have a sponsor pay for it. But then it wouldn't be CME.

Sponsors never select speakers for the annual meeting. I have served on the annual committee and this would never be permitted. As far as your 3-4 conferences a year and being on the "circuit" that still doesn't mean you couldn't contribute on a committee. BTW after more than 20 years I consider it a privilege and honor anytime I am asked to lecture. I feel that there is emerging many differences in the way we look at things. Not better or worse but definitely different.

I support all of these institutions just like you do Podfather. What seems to be a little bit of difference in our experiences, is that I seem to find that they aren't perfect and also don't mind pointing it out. Just like you ask for change within the APMA with affiliates and loosening up their guidelines and bylaws, maybe other organziations should lead the way in that regard.

I agree with this. A funny thing is all of this exclusion talk, implied elitism, and good old boy conspiracies. I had no pull, knew no one. Yet with consistent hard work, demonstration of efficiency, willigness to start in the mailroom for experience, and passion I have been able to move up and give back. My involvement at leadership positions came without nepotism, pull, or butt kissing. I disprove everything that has been said relating to those issues.

I think eventually when the ASPS increases its membership and "clout", it will strive to excel as well.

The proof will be in the pudding.

 

[347932]

Podfather I respect you a great deal. I think what you do for the profession is exemplary and if we had more gems like you, our profession would certainly be in a better place.

However, I'm not sure where you're coming from some of the time. I've personally seen some seasoned speakers throw FITS in front of my eyes at not being invited to this conference or that conference. "Step on toes"?? You've never seen this??!! I've been to conferences where I've been openly challenged by some of these people who can't believe "some young kid I never heard of" is speaking on a particular topic. Then they see me lecture and at the next conference that we are both at, they act like they've known me for years and we're best buds. Come on, man. You've seriously not encounter this? I know the people you deal with. I'm SURE you've seen this behavior.

I don't get the ACFAS requirement because it seems like they elevate themselves for no reason whatsoever. Are you seriously trying to tell me that the format at the ACFAS conference for the speakers is THAT different than anywhere else, or at any other conference? It is certainly a privilege to be asked to speak at ANY conference and I treat it as such when I am invited. That is ALWAYS the first thing I say before I even start any didactics in the lecture. I ALWAYS thank the organization that asked me to come and the audience for having the patience to listen to my shctick.

I'm currently involved with the APMA, help to run an affiliate organization, and am involved with the ASPS as well. I have to chose where to spend my time and I believe I spend it wisely. I also help train residents like you do and also have to run an office and make a living. I only have so much time.

 

[Podfather]

Podfather I respect you a great deal. I think what you do for the profession is exemplary and if we had more gems like you, our profession would certainly be in a better place.

However, I'm not sure where you're coming from some of the time. I've personally seen some seasoned speakers throw FITS in front of my eyes at not being invited to this conference or that conference. "Step on toes"?? You've never seen this??!! I've been to conferences where I've been openly challenged by some of these people who can't believe "some young kid I never heard of" is speaking on a particular topic. Then they see me lecture and at the next conference that we are both at, they act like they've known me for years and we're best buds. Come on, man. You've seriously not encounter this? I know the people you deal with. I'm SURE you've seen this behavior.


My point you have experienced some of the same hypocrisy on how people interpret things. I see it differently than you. I will leave it at that. And with all honesty the seasoned guys wish they had their toes stepped on more.

I don't get the ACFAS requirement because it seems like they elevate themselves for no reason whatsoever. Are you seriously trying to tell me that the format at the ACFAS conference for the speakers is THAT different than anywhere else, or at any other conference?

I can say without hesitation: YES Perhaps you should come back to our annual meeting with 5 minute presentations, panel discussions, point-counterpoint and significant audience participation.


It is certainly a privilege to be asked to speak at ANY conference and I treat it as such when I am invited. That is ALWAYS the first thing I say before I even start any didactics in the lecture. I ALWAYS thank the organization that asked me to come and the audience for having the patience to listen to my shctick.

I'm currently involved with the APMA, help to run an affiliate organization, and am involved with the ASPS as well. I have to chose where to spend my time and I believe I spend it wisely. I also help train residents like you do and also have to run an office and make a living. I only have so much time.

I am for all of those prospering. I want everyone/organization to be happy and successful. Win-win.

 

[Podfather]

Podfather I respect you a great deal. I think what you do for the profession is exemplary and if we had more gems like you, our profession would certainly be in a better place.

However, I'm not sure where you're coming from some of the time. I've personally seen some seasoned speakers throw FITS in front of my eyes at not being invited to this conference or that conference. "Step on toes"?? You've never seen this??!! I've been to conferences where I've been openly challenged by some of these people who can't believe "some young kid I never heard of" is speaking on a particular topic. Then they see me lecture and at the next conference that we are both at, they act like they've known me for years and we're best buds. Come on, man. You've seriously not encounter this? I know the people you deal with. I'm SURE you've seen this behavior.

BTW have to drop this, off to the Super Bowl! Psyched.

I don't get the ACFAS requirement because it seems like they elevate themselves for no reason whatsoever. Are you seriously trying to tell me that the format at the ACFAS conference for the speakers is THAT different than anywhere else, or at any other conference? It is certainly a privilege to be asked to speak at ANY conference and I treat it as such when I am invited. That is ALWAYS the first thing I say before I even start any didactics in the lecture. I ALWAYS thank the organization that asked me to come and the audience for having the patience to listen to my shctick.

I'm currently involved with the APMA, help to run an affiliate organization, and am involved with the ASPS as well. I have to chose where to spend my time and I believe I spend it wisely. I also help train residents like you do and also have to run an office and make a living. I only have so much time.

🙂