Internal Medicine Program Rankings

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Boston U: One fellow that I talked with loved it there. She said that Boston U had an international and diverse patient population, lots of intern autonomy, a nice hospital, and heavy emphasis on teaching. She also said that it was emphasized to interns that they were to teach the med students too. She said that they do fairly well when it comes to fellowships. She did her residency and med school there, she's a pulmonary fellow now.
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I concur-- BU from what I hear is great. A friend of mine went to Harvard Med and then, as she says, "decided to take the road less travelled" and went to BU for residency. She loved it, got excellent training in primary care medicine and is now a general medicine fellow at Hopkins.

Some of her colleagues have told me that they love having clinic at the same time as her because she just so durn knowledgable.

If I had been headed for primary care, I would have considered BU strongly. I don't know much about their categorical IM track.
 
Where is Minnesota in this list??? Its at least on par with Cinci if not better!!
 
I just read through this thread only to notice that it's from 2003.
 
Oh okay .... 😵

Did the ranking differ now from that time?
 
Anyone have any input of how Osler is doing after losing their great PD? What is the status of the program? Have they found someone new? Is the program sufferning?
 
KeepOnTruckin31 said:
Anyone have any input of how Osler is doing after losing their great PD? What is the status of the program? Have they found someone new? Is the program sufferning?
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Nope. The new PD is awesome. Hopkins is still #1.
 
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Aequanimitas ... Thou must be like a promontory of the sea, against which, though the waves beat continually, yet it both itself stands, and about it are those swelling waves stilled and quieted. - Marcus Aurelius
 
Instatewaiter said:
Nope. The new PD is awesome. Hopkins is still #1.

I just wish they would give the official fuck you to the ACGME and tell them to stuff their stupid hour regulations right up their ass... but they wont do that. They decided to play the game and do the stupid work hour regulations. You don't train the navy seals like the other grunts. You shouldn't train the osler marines in the same way as other programs. /end rant
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Navy seals?

:lame:
 
The Gunslinger eats 10 Navy Seals on Breakfast!! 😀
 
Please, O, Please make that 20,000 post addressed to me 😛
 
Slightly off topic but was wondering about the reputation of Hopkins being malignant. Is it simply due to the fact that the residents worked long hours, or do the attendings instill fear in the housestaff? From what I've read it appears that the housestaff are pretty collegial among one another, and didn't get the impression that its the type of place where people are throwing each other under a bus. In hindsight I'm trying to figure what the advantage of that would be, good evals/letters for fellowship??? Not trying to start anything, just confused and seeking clarification. 😕

PS I did a search and was unable to find any previous threads directly answering this question. One last question would Hopkins IM program be considered "resident-run" since rounds are headed by the chief resident of each appointed firm?

Looking forward to the responses, thanks in advance everyone!
 
Ivy2012 said:
Slightly off topic but was wondering about the reputation of Hopkins being malignant. Is it simply due to the fact that the residents worked long hours, or do the attendings instill fear in the housestaff? From what I've read it appears that the housestaff are pretty collegial among one another, and didn't get the impression that its the type of place where people are throwing each other under a bus. In hindsight I'm trying to figure what the advantage of that would be, good evals/letters for fellowship??? Not trying to start anything, just confused and seeking clarification. 😕

PS I did a search and was unable to find any previous threads directly answering this question. One last question would Hopkins IM program be considered "resident-run" since rounds are headed by the chief resident of each appointed firm?

Looking forward to the responses, thanks in advance everyone!
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I have heard Hopkins was malignant back in 2003. It definitely isn't anymore. The attendings are all really nice and welcoming. Maybe this is a big change in the last 8 years but most of the attendings are still the same attendings from before.

The draw to hopkins for many is multifaceted: very strong clinical training, a lot of access to research and basically your pick for fellowship. Some like the atmosphere while others hate it.

Hopkins is very resident run. The ACS (chief resident) is not like a chief resident at other programs. They ARE the attending. They go away for fellowship for a year and then come back to be ACS. Most consider hopkins resident run
 
jashanley said:
From what I see the link only shows program rankings by NIH funding. How does NIH funding prove that a program is a quality residency program? What garbage! Good research doesn't necessarily result in a quality education. We are learning to be doctors not lab rats. The attending for the most part that bring in the most NIH money seem to be the least comfortable with patient care. I have worked in many hospitals and this seems to be the predominant trend.
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Yes x 1000%. I've been around the med school block, was a lab tech before med school, did research other times along the way, now at my 3rd training hospital (counting med school/residency/fellowship). If you are looking at IM residencies, then looking at rankings based on US News research money won't tell you who has the best IM training. However, "name" recognition will impress some patients. Academic types who are in the know are less likely to give you a fellowship based just on the name of your residency program (i.e. Yale = more famous to a layperson than UT Southwestern or Duke but most fellowship program directors would like a Duke or UTSW resident in their fellowship program). Also keep in mind there are regional biases in fellowship selection and selection of people for jobs. If someone wants to hire a hospitalist in Connecticut they'd rather have someone already in Connecticut with a Connecticut medical license, etc.
 
So...program directors wouldn't want a Yale resident, eh? Commence eye rolling.
 
dragonfly99 said:
Yes x 1000%. I've been around the med school block, was a lab tech before med school, did research other times along the way, now at my 3rd training hospital (counting med school/residency/fellowship). If you are looking at IM residencies, then looking at rankings based on US News research money won't tell you who has the best IM training. However, "name" recognition will impress some patients. Academic types who are in the know are less likely to give you a fellowship based just on the name of your residency program (i.e. Yale = more famous to a layperson than UT Southwestern or Duke but most fellowship program directors would like a Duke or UTSW resident in their fellowship program). Also keep in mind there are regional biases in fellowship selection and selection of people for jobs. If someone wants to hire a hospitalist in Connecticut they'd rather have someone already in Connecticut with a Connecticut medical license, etc.
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Yeah, sometimes I read this board and just kind of scratch my head.

Generally speaking, we don't worry too much about the fellowship match as we traditionally get our top choice -- despite what some on this board might have people believe.

Here was last year's match.

Pulm/CC - Penn
Pulm/CC - BU
Pulm/CC - Harvard
Pulm/CC - Yale
Pulm/CC - Yale
Pulm/CC - Yale
Cards - NW
Cards - Dartmouth
Cards - Yale
Cards - Yale (short track)
Cards - Yale (short track)
Cards - Wash U
Cards - Wash U
Cards - UCLA
Cards - Brown
GI - Columbia
GI - Penn
GI - Brown
GI - Rush
GI - Yale
GI - Tufts/Lahey
Endo - Columbia
Endo - Columbia
ID - Stanford
ID - Harvard
ID - Cornell
 
Left out one more GI. A guy who was offered an out of match position at both Hopkins and Yale, but chose to stay.
 
Sorry, I'm a Yale resident.
 
gutonc said:
Obviously. The only group of residents who gets their panties in more of a bunch than the Yalies are the CCFers.
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Don't you remember the Vandies last year?

It is kind of funny though because the rest of us are like, "Yeah, we know it's a great program, didn't say it wasn't, we just don't think you're MGH is all . . . oh . . . and New Haven might not be the most godforsaken place in the country, but it's on the top 10 list"

I think that sums up the position of most of us :laugh:
 
jdh71 said:
Don't you remember the Vandies last year?

It is kind of funny though because the rest of us are like, "Yeah, we know it's a great program, didn't say it wasn't, we just don't think you're MGH is all . . . oh . . . and New Haven might not be the most godforsaken place in the country, but it's on the top 10 list"

I think that sums up the position of most of us :laugh:
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But the Yalies keep it going year after year, they do in fact rep hard.

And your take is spot on.
 
nah, we don't get "our panties in a bunch." But there's no reason to let someone casually trash our program when it's pretty easy to refute.
 
Quoting Dragonfly99:
"looking at rankings based on US News research money won't tell you who has the best IM training. However, "name" recognition will impress some patients. Academic types who are in the know are less likely to give you a fellowship based just on the name of your residency program (i.e. Yale = more famous to a layperson than UT Southwestern or Duke but most fellowship program directors would like a Duke or UTSW resident in their fellowship program). "

Casual stuff like that is pretty easy to refute by showing a list of where Yale residents actually go for fellowship (and by no means am I knocking Duke or UTSW). I'm just pointing out that we do fine, and that "academic types who are in the know" are not avoiding us. In fact, I would say they are welcoming us.
 
RonBurgandy said:
Quoting Dragonfly99:
"looking at rankings based on US News research money won't tell you who has the best IM training. However, "name" recognition will impress some patients. Academic types who are in the know are less likely to give you a fellowship based just on the name of your residency program (i.e. Yale = more famous to a layperson than UT Southwestern or Duke but most fellowship program directors would like a Duke or UTSW resident in their fellowship program). "

Casual stuff like that is pretty easy to refute by showing a list of where Yale residents actually go for fellowship (and by no means am I knocking Duke or UTSW). I'm just pointing out that we do fine, and that "academic types who are in the know" are not avoiding us. In fact, I would say they are welcoming us.
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Which is impressive, given you like to smell your own farts
 
Whats up with all the Methane emissions!! : ))
 
Cleveland Clinic is not that great for IM training in terms of reputation and prestige (which is what matters when looking for fellowship and most jobs). Many of the housestaff are DOs and FMGs.

I would rank Hopkins in the top group and move UCSD and UCLA down to A- .

Yale is a great program true but not as great as some have made it out to be. NYU is also a great program and better than some people have made it out to be.

Mayo? Really? I'm not sure I felt that way when doing residency interviews.

In all, if you can train at any of the the top 25 programs in the nation, you'll be good to go.

I personally wouldn't go to any of the B list programs.
 
What this thread really needs is an ***OFFICIAL winter 2011IM program rank list***...we need to stratify these programs to the 3rd decimal point. And quickly. Because spring is coming and the queue could change dramatically.👍
 
BlackNDecker said:
What this thread really needs is an ***OFFICIAL winter 2011IM program rank list***...we need to stratify these programs to the 3rd decimal point. And quickly. Because spring is coming and the queue could change dramatically.👍
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What I can tell you is that the MAYO clinic is highly OVER-rated.

Second tier at BEST these days.
 
NDESTRUKT said:
Cleveland Clinic is not that great for IM training in terms of reputation and prestige (which is what matters when looking for fellowship and most jobs). Many of the housestaff are DOs and FMGs.

I would rank Hopkins in the top group and move UCSD and UCLA down to A- .

Yale is a great program true but not as great as some have made it out to be. NYU is also a great program and better than some people have made it out to be.

Mayo? Really? I'm not sure I felt that way when doing residency interviews.

In all, if you can train at any of the the top 25 programs in the nation, you'll be good to go.

I personally wouldn't go to any of the B list programs.
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You said it, you list it! :meanie: JDH dish it out!
 
DrVanNostran said:
You said it, you list it! :meanie: JDH dish it out!
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Do rankings really matter? Is someone going to be less of a doctor because they did their residency/fellowship at any generic state institution instead of at Harvard/UCSF??
 
Newbie212 said:
Do rankings really matter? Is someone going to be less of a doctor because they did their residency/fellowship at any generic state institution instead of at Harvard/UCSF??
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Less of a doctor, no. Less of a chance at a competitive fellowship, yes.
 
Newbie212 said:
Do rankings really matter? Is someone going to be less of a doctor because they did their residency/fellowship at any generic state institution instead of at Harvard/UCSF??
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It all depends on what you mean by "less of a doctor". I always tell my friends/family that there's a huge difference between the top 10% of my class and the bottom 10% even though everyone will have an MD next to their name. In the same way, while SDN has a lot of ridiculous posts trying to split hairs between the top 10/25 schools, if you take the top 4 schools and compare the caliber of students with the bottom 10, there are definite differences.
 
I think its more of a personal effort in (most) cases:

Programs are ACGME accredited, they provide education, teaching, and patient care that satisfied national standards, and american standards are the gold standard for health care (AFAIK).

Any decent programs (top 50 for instance) gives us the resources, and its up to us to excel.

If you are a real soldier, a mid-tier program could make you a general, and if you went to medicine to buy the newest Maybach without real care or interest to what you are doing, no Hopkins on earth could redeem your soul.
 
jdh71 said:
What I can tell you is that the MAYO clinic is highly OVER-rated.

Second tier at BEST these days.
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I heard they had to strip all the granite and marble off the buildings and sell it along with the prize winning art collection so they could afford to pay resident salaries. The buzzards are circling this program if you ask me:meanie:
 
Newbie212 said:
Do rankings really matter? Is someone going to be less of a doctor because they did their residency/fellowship at any generic state institution instead of at Harvard/UCSF??
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The ranking matter to a point. No, you're not going to get "better training" in bread and butter IM at a top place (ie. chest pain rule out is the same everywhere). What you get as you move up the academic food chain is more of a committment to excellence, teaching, research, and academics. You get exposure to experts in niche fields, as well as the patients that come in because of those people. And since so much of medicine is learned by experience and what you've seen to add to your arsenal, you could argue that generally you'll come out of these programs with a better differential for any given problem.

With all of that said the big name places are big name mostly for their research. Do you really get that much extra by going to a Brigham vs UCLA or even vs UVa? Probably not, not really, nothing that really matters.
 
jdh71 said:
And since so much of medicine is learned by experience and what you've seen to add to your arsenal, you could argue that generally you'll come out of these programs with a better differential for any given problem.
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Quoted for truth. But this has more to do with developing clinical skills than research skills...and personally I didn't choose a career in medicine because I wanted to be an independently funded researcher.
 
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