International students can't be accepted?

[FishyTheFish]

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I've lived in the United States for 14 years (and am going to a US Undergraduate College), but am still considered an international student... I've heard some people say that internationals are just flat out not accepted into U.S Medical Schools, but I've also heard people say that they are and that it's a lot more difficult for them to get in.

So can someone clear this up?

Are international students, who are getting degrees from an undergraduate in the United States, not accepted my medical schools? And if they are, is it much harder for them to get accepted?

For example, I've heard that Harvard only accepts 6 international students, and that Johns Hopkins doesn't accept any.

 

[GS Mikami]

You can get accepted. It is more difficult, though.

I'm an int' student and so far I'm doing alright. If you put your heart and mind into your application, it can be done.

 

[TunaSub]

I've lived in the United States for 14 years (and am going to a US Undergraduate College), but am still considered an international student... I've heard some people say that internationals are just flat out not accepted into U.S Medical Schools, but I've also heard people say that they are and that it's a lot more difficult for them to get in.

So can someone clear this up?

Are international students, who are getting degrees from an undergraduate in the United States, not accepted my medical schools? And if they are, is it much harder for them to get accepted?

For example, I've heard that Harvard only accepts 6 international students, and that Johns Hopkins doesn't accept any.

If you have access to the MSAR book, you can see how many international students applied, interviewed, and were accepted at each school.

 

[kpcrew]

Depends on where you're from.

 

[gettheleadout]

It depends on the school as well; I believe UMich does not accept international students.

 

[zwitterion34]

You have to demonstrate your ability to pay for your medical education. 😎

 

[1TB4RKSB4CK]

You can get accepted. It is more difficult, though.

I'm an int' student and so far I'm doing alright. If you put your heart and mind into your application, it can be done.

Wow you have great stats and congrats on all those interviews and acceptances!
If I was in your shoes, I would go to Tulane haha 15k/yr is hard to pass up. If you get into Mayo however... !!
Goodluck on the rest of your app process!

 

[phltz]

It depends on the school as well; I believe UMich does not accept international students.

I'm a student at UMich. Several of my classmates are international students.

 

[gettheleadout]

I'm a student at UMich. Several of my classmates are international students.

Thanks for the heads-up then, I may have misinterpreted the person who told me this. For clarification, international student = not a US citizen/permanent resident, right?

 

[blizzah]

I'm a student at UMich. Several of my classmates are international students.

Maybe in the past this was possible. Not now.

http://med.umich.edu/medschool/admissions/apply/requirements.html

Applicants must be U.S. citizens or permanent residents of the United States. Permanent residents and U.S. citizens who did not attend U.S. or Canadian schools should complete at least one year, preferably two, in residence at an accredited college in North America. All previous academic credits must be validated by the accredited college.

 

[phltz]

Thanks for the heads-up then, I may have misinterpreted the person who told me this. For clarification, international student = not a US citizen/permanent resident, right?

I'm not sure about their permanent residence statuses. For some of them, I'd be surprised if they were.

 

[kpcrew]

Be sure to check the schools to see if they take internationals using the msar. I know that downstate, stony brook and buffalo don't take any but they had like 80 each apply to their schools. Applying to medical school is expensive, don't throw your money away.

 

[blizzah]

Don't just look to see if they accept international but if they actually interview and accept.

Ie. USC says they accept but only interview 2 a year, same goes for other schools like tufts etc

 

[MedicalBeast]

get the MSAR book, it will really help you rule out school that flat out don't accept int'l students. there are at least 20+ school that do accept international students so thats still a lot of options.

good luck!

 

[235788]

US med schools want to train US medical doctors who will practice in the US 🙂. I think you have a much better shot then my traditional international students who try to come here solely for med school.

 

[Quaero]

get the MSAR book, it will really help you rule out school that flat out don't accept int'l students. there are at least 20+ school that do accept international students so thats still a lot of options.

good luck!

Agreed! The MSAR is your best bet. It's also useful to look at the acceptance ratio.

Best of luck to you!

 

[blue0rchid]

SUNY Upstate accepts international students who completed 90 units at a US college.
http://www.upstate.edu/com/admissions/international.php

OP, have you been international student for 14 years? That's a long time to be a full time student. Must have cost a lot $$

 

[maria281996]

Hi! the last week I'm very confused, because someone told me that if you are not from U.S you will not be able to be a doctor in an american hospital... You can only study 4 years to an American University, but you can't be an intern to a hospital so you have to go back to your country... Is that true? I'll go crazy if that's true...🙁🙁🙁

 

[tiedyeddog]

Hi! the last week I'm very confused, because someone told me that if you are not from U.S you will not be able to be a doctor in an american hospital... You can only study 4 years to an American University, but you can't be an intern to a hospital so you have to go back to your country... Is that true? I'll go crazy if that's true...🙁🙁🙁

Not sure what you're asking. Its easy to get into undergrad as an international student. Its pretty hard but not impossible to get into a U.S. medical school as an international, but much easier if you did undergrad or a postbacc in the united states. Its very, very difficult for an international medical school graduate to land in a residency program in the united states. Even then, most positions filled by IMGs are very undesirable. Help you at all?

 

[Verum]

Not sure what you're asking. Its easy to get into undergrad as an international student. Its pretty hard but not impossible to get into a U.S. medical school as an international, but much easier if you did undergrad or a postbacc in the united states. Its very, very difficult for an international medical school graduate to land in a residency program in the united states. Even then, most positions filled by IMGs are very undesirable. Help you at all?

What about an international student that went to a US med school? Are they equal to citizens/permaresidents in residency matching?

 

[tiedyeddog]

What about an international student that went to a US med school? Are they equal to citizens/permaresidents in residency matching?

To be honest, I have no idea.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

I'm not sure about their permanent residence statuses. For some of them, I'd be surprised if they were.

So it sounds like you just looked at them and branded them as international. Great diagnosis.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

Hi! the last week I'm very confused, because someone told me that if you are not from U.S you will not be able to be a doctorm in an american hospital... You can only study 4 years to an American University, but you can't be an intern to a hospital so you have to go back to your country... Is that true? I'll go crazy if that's true...🙁🙁🙁

I believe that if you are accepted to a US medical school, you will NOT be considered an IMG (International Medical Graduate) and will be on equal footing with all US citizens and permanent residents (who graduated from US medical schools) applying for the residency match. The hard part is getting accepted to a US medical school as an international applicant. Check MSAR to find out which schools are friendly towards international applicants. For the most part, you will need an undergraduate degree from a US college or university in order to be considered for US med schools. You also need to have excellent grades, a high MCAT, and very strong extracurriculars. If you cannot get into a US medical school, and you end up going to med school in your home country, it will be much more difficult to get a US residency. Does that clear things up?

 

[SnowyRox]

I've lived in the United States for 14 years (and am going to a US Undergraduate College), but am still considered an international student... I've heard some people say that internationals are just flat out not accepted into U.S Medical Schools, but I've also heard people say that they are and that it's a lot more difficult for them to get in.

So can someone clear this up?

Are international students, who are getting degrees from an undergraduate in the United States, not accepted my medical schools? And if they are, is it much harder for them to get accepted?

For example, I've heard that Harvard only accepts 6 international students, and that Johns Hopkins doesn't accept any.

That is incorrect. I know several international students at Jeff (which is probably all of them, LOL).

I have heard that admissions is more difficult because there are fewer spots. Which makes sense. We want to train our citizens to be doctors because they are most likely to stay and contribute back to society.

Anyway, make a great application and apply broadly. Yes it will be harder to get in. Yes you can do it. End of story!

ETA: Read the thread updates... I would contact some residency directors about their policies on accepting international students who had their medical training in the USA. Doubt you're going to find accurate answers on SDN for this question. My guess would be that you would be on approximately equal footing with US citizens if you are eligible for all the proper work visas upon graduation.

A lady I volunteer with is an international student who was accepted (and graduated from) PCOM and now is a family med resident. I don't know if that was her first choice, but I think so. So, it's at least possible to get a residency.

 

[Praefectus]

If you are a US undergrad, it's easier to get into a US med school and subsequently a US residency program. From what I reckon, it's harder to jump in the water as you get farther downstream.

 

[lxz]

Yes, you can get into medical schools as an international student if you earn a US/Canadian bachelor degree. Most schools which accept intl students are private schools. A fairly large proportion of these schools require proof of funding for your education.

 

[notbobtrustme]

The "international" designator comes down to immigration status and where you did your pre-reqs. International degrees are not recognized by most medical schools. Most medical schools require at least 90 hours of US accredited undergraduate studies. Many of these same schools also require a BS/BA from a US accredited school. A BSc or equivalent from overseas cannot be substituted

Secondly, in the vast majority of cases, you need to be a permanent resident of the United States (aka green card). An F-1 visa is not sufficient to attend most medical schools. Secondly, you need a green card to obtain a residency, an H1B is not acceptable. This is applies to the vast majority of cases. Foreign medical training, aka a residency from a foreign country, can waive a couple years off residency training in the US, but it won't waive the requirement in full. Finally, you can try to apply for a "physician waiver" but they have extremely stringent requirements and are all but impossible to obtain in the new post-911 era.



The fact that you have been in the US for 14 years means that you either have a green card or you've been here undocumented.

 

[semicharmed]

Canadians=difficult, but do-able, many Canadians in my class

Other countries=did not encounter more than 1-2 at any interviews/second looks...assumed this was because the admissions was too difficult but could be a selection thing

Just my experience on the interview trail. Met one guy from Zimbabwe and one girl from Spain interviewing who had both done undergrad in the US, but I think they had some kind of special permanent resident status or maybe one parent was a US citizen or something.

 

[StuartManor]

I'm also currently an international student at US UG. I've spoken with the admissions director at the medical school in my state and also did a little research. Basically, the majority of state funded schools will not accept internationals. Obviously the state's money should be used to train US doctors. Most if not all private medical schools accept internations however, some say that it is still slightly more difficult. Your application should outshine them majority of the US citizen applicants.

(I apologize for any typos, did this sort of in a rush)

 

[altitude]

I'm also currently an international student at US UG. I've spoken with the admissions director at the medical school in my state and also did a little research. Basically, the majority of state funded schools will not accept internationals. Obviously the state's money should be used to train US doctors. Most if not all private medical schools accept internations however, some say that it is still slightly more difficult.Your application should outshine them majority of the US citizen applicants.

(I apologize for any typos, did this sort of in a rush)

Well that sounds easy...

 

[Quaero]

The fact that you have been in the US for 14 years means that you either have a green card or you've been here undocumented.

Have you always been using an F-1?

 

[Ravizzle]

I've been in US legally for 11 years. No Green Card. Don't say there is no way u can be here that long etc etc unless undocumented. There are many other visas with which one can reside in US for long periods of time, which do not give you permanent residency.

Sent from my Galaxy S2 via tapatalk

 

[candav]

Canadian citizen here attending a US medical school in the fall. I know of many other internationals who were also accepted to American medical schools this application cycle. It is certainly not impossible and many schools (mainly private ones) treat domestic and international applicants on relatively even ground.

I have seen a lot of misinformation (including in this thread) about residency options for international students who are US medical graduates. Here is what I know: some residency programs will not accept anyone without American citizenship or permanent resident status. Many others will. Those residency programs that do will offer either J or H1 visas to non-US citizens in their programs. The H1 is the better visa, as it is a non-immigrant visa that puts you on track to permanent resident status, but it is harder to come by as the H1 application process is a headache for both the applicant and the sponsoring institution (the hospital). The J visa allows you to complete your residency in the US but (at least for Canadian citizens) requires that you return to your home country for a number of years following completion of your program; obviously, not the ideal situation for anyone wishing to practice in the US.

Hope this helps -- but please, if you are looking into something as important as this issue, don't rely on what any of us say on these forums. Use more reputable sources.

 

[semicharmed]

Canadian citizen here attending a US medical school in the fall. I know of many other internationals who were also accepted to American medical schools this application cycle. It is certainly not impossible and many schools (mainly private ones) treat domestic and international applicants on relatively even ground.

I have seen a lot of misinformation (including in this thread) about residency options for international students who are US medical graduates. Here is what I know: some residency programs will not accept anyone without American citizenship or permanent resident status. Many others will. Those residency programs that do will offer either J or H1 visas to non-US citizens in their programs. The H1 is the better visa, as it is a non-immigrant visa that puts you on track to permanent resident status, but it is harder to come by as the H1 application process is a headache for both the applicant and the sponsoring institution (the hospital). The J visa allows you to complete your residency in the US but (at least for Canadian citizens) requires that you return to your home country for a number of years following completion of your program; obviously, not the ideal situation for anyone wishing to practice in the US.

Hope this helps -- but please, if you are looking into something as important as this issue, don't rely on what any of us say on these forums. Use more reputable sources.

This is great information-but Canadians have a special status, right? I completely agree-I've noticed a large number of Canadians, but I think that is due to a special relationship between the US and Canada. If the OP isn't Canadian, I think you'll agree it will be an upward battle...

Also, you would definitely be a greater source than me, but it has been pretty well documented that international students (even from Canada) are pretty marginalized if you look at the acceptance rates and you need to have a very solid application to compete.

PS: In response to the original post, Hopkins does accept Canadians as Candav would know 😉. They are also offering financial aid for international students

 

[GS Mikami]

So much misinformation in this thread.

Yes, its hard to get accepted into a US medschool if you're an international student but is FAR from impossible.

The main obstacles that an int' student will face are:

1) The number and tier of schools he/she can apply to. For the most part, state schools are out of the picture. Top tier schools are more friendly toward international students.

2) Financial Aid: There is no financial aid for int' students at most schools. If you get accepted, its up to you to find a way in which you can pay for the school. Some schools even require you to put all the money needed for the 4 years of medschool in a escrow account before your first year ($300k or more). Don't waste your time applying to these schools unless your family has this kind of money to spare.

As mentioned in point #1, top tier schools are your best friend. Some of them give financial aid and scholarships to int' students (Harvard, Yale, Duke, and Vanderbilt are the ones i know of). If it wasn't for this, I wouldn't be able do medschool in the States.

Don't waste your time asking your average SDNer about these topics. I will even say that the only people who actually know whats going on are the few int' students who have gone through an application cycle (ex: Candav and myself)

 

[StuartManor]

So much misinformation in this thread.

Yes, its hard to get accepted into a US medschool if you're an international student but is FAR from impossible.

The main obstacles that an int' student will face are:

1) The number and tier of schools he/she can apply to. For the most part, state schools are out of the picture. Top tier schools are more friendly toward international students.

2) Financial Aid: There is no financial aid for int' students at most schools. If you get accepted, its up to you to find a way in which you can pay for the school. Some schools even require you to put all the money needed for the 4 years of medschool in a escrow account before your first year ($300k or more). Don't waste your time applying to these schools unless your family has this kind of money to spare.

As mentioned in point #1, top tier schools are your best friend. Some of them give financial aid and scholarships to int' students (Harvard, Yale, Duke, and Vanderbilt are the ones i know of). If it wasn't for this, I wouldn't be able do medschool in the States.

Don't waste your time asking your average SDNer about these topics. I will even say that the only people who actually know whats going on are the few int' students who have gone through an application cycle (ex: Candav and myself)

I agree with you. Most people wouldn't fully understand all of the problems associated with it. Recently I had a conversation with a guy who did get into medical on international status. He was using loans however, for an international to recieve a loan to pay for med school you need a US citizen with good enough credit to cosign it every year. His uncle cosigned it for him the first year but I think credit went bad somehow and everything just went downhilll from there. He got kicked out of the school because he couldn't afford it.
A marriage, green card and I think about four application cycles later he finally got into another school. He told me that even after receiving his green card it was difficult because most schools won't look at an app from someone that dropped out of medical already.
Greatest advice, just do as much research as possible from people who actually went through. Although the guys advice to me was to get married in UG lol! Idk how likely that is to happen but I'm sure there are alternatives.

 

[semicharmed]

Just found this from the University of Georgia. Pretty comprehensive with data, etc.

http://premed.uga.edu/guide/four.htm#international

Another good link (see bottom of chart):

https://www.aamc.org/download/86034/data/table5facts09slmat3web.pdf

So 87% of international applicants don't matriculate compared to 56.5% of US citizens that do not matriculate. 12% of international applicants do matriculate compared to 44% of US applicants. Probably this is because of the high number of US public medical schools. If you compare the percentage matriculating "OOS" they are more similar. So probably what this means is that if you are applying out-of-state, you have similar chances of matriculating no matter the nationality. It's just more difficult to get in as an international because you don't have the in-state option (there are probably inconsistencies/other variables in this logic).

 

[GS Mikami]

Just found this from the University of Georgia. Pretty comprehensive with data, etc.

http://premed.uga.edu/guide/four.htm#international

Another good link (see bottom of chart):

https://www.aamc.org/download/86034/data/table5facts09slmat3web.pdf

So 87% of international applicants don't matriculate compared to 56.5% of US citizens that do not matriculate. 12% of international applicants do matriculate compared to 44% of US applicants. Probably this is because of the high number of US public medical schools. If you compare the percentage matriculating "OOS" they are more similar. So probably what this means is that if you are applying out-of-state, you have similar chances of matriculating no matter the nationality. It's just more difficult to get in as an international because you don't have the in-state option (there are probably inconsistencies/other variables in this logic).

Those are some pretty informative links for anyone interested. Scary and depressing, but nonetheless informative.

I remember reading some similar sources back in the Spring of '09. At that time, I was a sophomore at a community college and I just got interested in medicine. I remember thinking something along the lines of "God Dammit, I'm never going to make it with these odds".

Fast forward three years later and I'm actually surprised as to how far I made it. No doubt I got lucky along the way (the MCAT is no joke) but, ultimately, it was hard work and dedication what got me where I am right now.

The point of all this, is to make anyone who reads this understands that when you're an int' student, getting accepted into a US medschool is hard but not impossible. From the get go, you have to understand that nobody deserves anything; this is not a charity. We're all gambling when we got into this. I like to think about it not really like straight up gambling, but more like poker, where you can prepare and have some control over your actions.

So work hard, kill the MCAT, be unique, and put your chips on the table. Hopefully the dealer is going to show you some nice community cards.

 

[BunnyInTheBox]

I believe that if you are accepted to a US medical school, you will NOT be considered an IMG (International Medical Graduate) and will be on equal footing with all US citizens and permanent residents (who graduated from US medical schools) applying for the residency match. The hard part is getting accepted to a US medical school as an international applicant. Check MSAR to find out which schools are friendly towards international applicants. For the most part, you will need an undergraduate degree from a US college or university in order to be considered for US med schools. You also need to have excellent grades, a high MCAT, and very strong extracurriculars. If you cannot get into a US medical school, and you end up going to med school in your home country, it will be much more difficult to get a US residency. Does that clear things up?

Agreed!

 

[DoctoR not yet]

Oh thank god, i've got what I really wanted to know.

Thank you guys

And
Let's do it international ppl : )