Internist studying for MCAT

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kvh78

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ok, I know it sounds crazy but I am a board certified FMG internist who hates his job. I've decided to take MCAT and apply for med school,
do I have any chance of being accepted to a elite school?
Can I apply my foreign medical school credits toward premed requirements?

appreciate your comments,
 
No doovers with this process. You say that you are a "board-certified" internist, which implies that you have completed residency and have passed Internal Medicine Boards. You might look into other careers that you can do as a physician but trying to redo medical school isn't going to happen for you no matter what MCAT score you achieve.
 
nontradfogie said:
I'm sorry but your post makes absolutely no sense. If you're an FMG all you have to do is pass Step 1 and Step 2 and apply for residency.
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njbmd said:
No doovers with this process. You say that you are a "board-certified" internist, which implies that you have completed residency and have passed Internal Medicine Boards. You might look into other careers that you can do as a physician but trying to redo medical school isn't going to happen for you no matter what MCAT score you achieve.
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Yeah, am I missing something? Why would one want to go to med school as a "board certified" internist. What "board" are we talking about exactly? I dont understand the issue obviously. Anyone care to elaborate? If one wants to change specialties couldn't you apply for residency in another field rather than trying to go back to med school?

Ok, I'm obviously missing something.
 
Yes i am confused too..I thought if any of us do not like our field we just do another residency? In this country ot other countries do they have to start all over?
 
One gets 7 years of post graduate funding in this country. That can limit the number of residencies that can be done. The OP (if board certified in this country) did an Internal Medicine residency and used up their funding (likely doing prelims because they were an FMG). Many FMGs end up doing prelim years before getting a categorical slot because getting into categorical slots is difficult for them compared to AMGs.

Now, he/she wants to "start over" and pretend as if they didn't do post graduate training and appear to be an AMG. This doesn't happen in this country for FMGs. Once post graduate training is completed, they don't have many options for changing specialties unless they have funding left (highly unlikely for this FMG looking at previous posts that date back to 2003 when they were searching for a residency program).

If you "hate" your specialty, you have to find some aspect of it that you can live with if your funding is gone. Also note that the OP listed that they wanted to get into an "elite" medical school here in this country. Likely not going to get into any medical school in this country first because they are not a citizen and most state schools won't take non-citizens (or green card holders) and won't take FMGs because they already hold a medical degree. An "elite" private medical school wouldn't be interested at all.
 
Thank Yo, so I guess I need to be sure of the specialty I pick. I was even thinking about sub specialty if I did IM. Is that realistic? My goal is to work in a hospital civilian or army.
 
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njbmd said:
One gets 7 years of post graduate funding in this country. That can limit the number of residencies that can be done. The OP (if board certified in this country) did an Internal Medicine residency and used up their funding (likely doing prelims because they were an FMG). Many FMGs end up doing prelim years before getting a categorical slot because getting into categorical slots is difficult for them compared to AMGs.
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I'm not really planning to specialty hop or anything, but when your talking about "funding" are you referring to federal loans/student aid ? Couldn't one go back to a residency (accepting the huge pay cut and grunt work) without needing funding? Not really asking about FMG's just MD's in general?

Just curious. I have never heard of anything restricting you going back to residency before. Thanks for your input!!
 
It's my understanding that residency training spots are enormously subsidized. Your salary is a small part of that subsidy. So there is a limited amount of funding for post-graduate (i.e., residency) training. Occasionally, when there is a shortage in some area, there will be some extra funding for 10 spots in e.g. anaesthesia, but you may be more stuck than you like.
 
sindadel said:
It's my understanding that residency training spots are enormously subsidized. Your salary is a small part of that subsidy. So there is a limited amount of funding for post-graduate (i.e., residency) training. Occasionally, when there is a shortage in some area, there will be some extra funding for 10 spots in e.g. anaesthesia, but you may be more stuck than you like.
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So its not a limitation on the individual per se as much as it is the program. So your not limited as a person but you would be hard pressed to be accepted into another residency program? Is that correct?
 
sindadel said:
It's my understanding that residency training spots are enormously subsidized. Your salary is a small part of that subsidy. So there is a limited amount of funding for post-graduate (i.e., residency) training. Occasionally, when there is a shortage in some area, there will be some extra funding for 10 spots in e.g. anaesthesia, but you may be more stuck than you like.
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Medicare pays for residency: $100k per year per resident. Resident pay is $35k to $60k or so. Program directors who want to add/remove seats are in for a boatload of paperwork and a long lead time.

7starmantis said:
So its not a limitation on the individual per se as much as it is the program. So your not limited as a person but you would be hard pressed to be accepted into another residency program? Is that correct?
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It's a limitation on both.
 
Thanks for the details Dr. M - I knew Medicare was involved somehow. The system is a little different in Canada, but essentially the same.
 
DrMidlife said:
It's a limitation on both.
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How so? I know of a physician back home who was a surgeon (5 years of residency) and then after working for several years decided to go back and went through a radiology residency (4 years). Thats more than the 7 per earlier posts. So is it that residency directors wont accept you or are you somehow limited in the years you spend in residency?

I'm not trying to be a jerk but does anyone have any links I can read about all of this? It just blows my mind, thats all.
 
7starmantis said:
How so? I know of a physician back home who was a surgeon (5 years of residency) and then after working for several years decided to go back and went through a radiology residency (4 years). Thats more than the 7 per earlier posts. So is it that residency directors wont accept you or are you somehow limited in the years you spend in residency?

I'm not trying to be a jerk but does anyone have any links I can read about all of this? It just blows my mind, thats all.
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I don't think there's any global guideline, but I am also aware that such things happen. I expect it's a case-by-case story where the program director has responsibility to find funding for a funding-exceeded candidate.
 
kvh78 said:
ok, I know it sounds crazy but I am a board certified FMG internist who hates his job. I've decided to take MCAT and apply for med school,
do I have any chance of being accepted to a elite school?
Can I apply my foreign medical school credits toward premed requirements?

appreciate your comments,
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Man. What the hell is up with all these FMGs wanting to go back to medical school and then go into a "competitive specialty"?

You've already completed training and are working as an IM (making 150k+ per year). You're doing better than 60% of American medical school apllicants who didn't get accepted to medical school and 70% of IMGs who applied through the MATCH and didn't get a residency spot. Quit trying to jump ship - this is exactly why Program Directors are weary about filling a slot with an FMG. Speaking of which, try justifying your rationale to the thousands of FMG who couldn't get a residency and see how much resentment that'll get ya.

As for your question - no you will not be able to get into a medical school now that you've completed residency training. This would be like me trying to go back to middle school. You don't need to go back to medical school or take away someone else position. If you don't like what you are doing now, quit and move back to your country. You don't have $250,000 of medical school debt on your back.
 
What I gather from reading the post history is that the OP already did pass the boards and completed an IM residency. S/he tried to get a cards fellowship and apparently couldn't.

OP, I am sorry, but the previous posters are correct. Medical schools exist to train people to be physicians. You are already a physician, so you cannot go to medical school again. Quite frankly, I don't know why you would want to even if you could. Between the expense you would incur and the sheer boredom you would endure, I think the next 7+ years of your life would be be rather unpleasant!

If you are unhappy in your current career, the only realistic solution is to find a different job, either medical or nonmedical, that you think you will enjoy more. You spoke about doing research in your posts, so that is one option. You could also consider trying to switch specialties (i.e., do a second residency), teaching, practicing in a different environment, industry, government, public health, and probably lots of other things that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head. Other possible options would be getting a second degree like an MPH or PhD, which might be helpful if you want to do public health or research. But regardless, your med school days are definitely done.

Best of luck to you.
 
kvh78 said:
ok, I know it sounds crazy but I am a board certified FMG internist who hates his job. I've decided to take MCAT and apply for med school,
do I have any chance of being accepted to a elite school?
Can I apply my foreign medical school credits toward premed requirements?

appreciate your comments,
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Are you Indian by any chance?
 
kvh78 said:
ok, I know it sounds crazy but I am a board certified FMG internist who hates his job. I've decided to take MCAT and apply for med school,
do I have any chance of being accepted to a elite school?
Can I apply my foreign medical school credits toward premed requirements?

appreciate your comments,
Click to expand...
Not a good strategic move for a number of reasons. Firstly, you will do just as well studying for and passing the USMLE. IM is not that hard to get into. Secondly, do you have any idea the prejudice you are about to face by attempting to apply to a U.S. medical school with foreign credentials? I could talk all day about that (but won't). In addition, the U.S. generally does not consider a medical degree from overseas as an undergraduate degree (unless you also have one of those), and so you have two strikes against you.

NYCOM used to have the emigre program that allows foreign M.D.s to get the D.O. degree in 2-3 years. I worked with an IMG from Egypt that did this. I thought he was a total lunatic. He won a green card in the green card lottery and this made him eligible for federal loans. Someone told him it would be a good idea to go through medical school again (it's not). He is now a M.D., D.O. and he's 200K in the red.
 
njbmd said:
One gets 7 years of post graduate funding in this country. That can limit the number of residencies that can be done. The OP (if board certified in this country) did an Internal Medicine residency and used up their funding (likely doing prelims because they were an FMG). Many FMGs end up doing prelim years before getting a categorical slot because getting into categorical slots is difficult for them compared to AMGs.

Now, he/she wants to "start over" and pretend as if they didn't do post graduate training and appear to be an AMG. This doesn't happen in this country for FMGs. Once post graduate training is completed, they don't have many options for changing specialties unless they have funding left (highly unlikely for this FMG looking at previous posts that date back to 2003 when they were searching for a residency program).

If you "hate" your specialty, you have to find some aspect of it that you can live with if your funding is gone. Also note that the OP listed that they wanted to get into an "elite" medical school here in this country. Likely not going to get into any medical school in this country first because they are not a citizen and most state schools won't take non-citizens (or green card holders) and won't take FMGs because they already hold a medical degree. An "elite" private medical school wouldn't be interested at all.
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States schools usually don't care. I got into a state school with a green card. I know many others that did, too. It's not a problem. Having a green card doesn't disqualify you from being a state resident for the purpose of medical school admissions (or taxes for that matter).
 
Scottish Chap said:
Not a good strategic move for a number of reasons. Firstly, you will do just as well studying for and passing the USMLE. IM is not that hard to get into. Secondly, do you have any idea the prejudice you are about to face by attempting to apply to a U.S. medical school with foreign credentials? I could talk all day about that (but won't). In addition, the U.S. generally does not consider a medical degree from overseas as an undergraduate degree (unless you also have one of those), and so you have two strikes against you.

NYCOM used to have the emigre program that allows foreign M.D.s to get the D.O. degree in 2-3 years. I worked with an IMG from Egypt that did this. I thought he was a total lunatic. He won a green card in the green card lottery and this made him eligible for federal loans. Someone told him it would be a good idea to go through medical school again (it's not). He is now a M.D., D.O. and he's 200K in the red.
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The things people will do over perceived status or salary.

Why are people so financially inept and not realize opportunity costs?
 
If the OP likes cardiology, she/he could look for one of those chest pain ER doctor jobs. These are springing up all over. These are basically internists who work shifts in the ER and hospital taking care of people who come in with chest pain. They basically manage a lot of these patients (really bad chest pain/big heart attacks go to cath lab and the cardiologists straight away, but a lot of the the less critical stuff can be taken care of and triaged by these guys). It's not exactly being a cardiologist, but you can do a good bit of the stuff cardiologists do. Or could go for endocrine fellowship and become a specialist in lipid management (cholesterol, etc.). Or there are fellowships in things like hypertension or vascular biology that probably are not competitive to get. Of course you can't sit for cardiology boards, but as far as your day to day job, you would/could be doing some of the same stuff.
 
Why is it everyone assumes IM physicians make 150K+? (Okay, not everyone, but more that probably should.) That's roughly the AVERAGE income for IM physicians, so you can bet there are tens of thousands making less, quite a few of them significantly less. Besides that, the guy didn't say he wasn't making enough, he said he hated his job. That said, I still think his odds are slim, especially given that his medical education appears to have been done abroad somewhere.
 
Schemp said:
Why is it everyone assumes IM physicians make 150K+? (Okay, not everyone, but more that probably should.) That's roughly the AVERAGE income for IM physicians, so you can bet there are tens of thousands making less, quite a few of them significantly less. Besides that, the guy didn't say he wasn't making enough, he said he hated his job. That said, I still think his odds are slim, especially given that his medical education appears to have been done abroad somewhere.
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It's statistics. Means and medians are there because they give you an idea that if YOU are average and in the middle of the road, that's the general pay range you can expect.

http://residency.wustl.edu/medadmin...212def64c36d7fa886256f8f0072f0b0?OpenDocument

This page shows that for internists:

Lifestyle
Mean Salary $164,100
Median Salary $144,000
Average hours worked per week: 55.6
Source: AAMC

Not bad.
 
Of course it's statistics. But how many IM physicians are there? I'd say at least several tens of thousands. If there are 100,000, don't you think at least 20,000 are making around 100-120K, at most? Like you said, it's statistics. And particularly for someone who hates their job, the odds of them making on the low end seems even more likely.
 
kvh78 said:
ok, I know it sounds crazy but I am a board certified FMG internist who hates his job. I've decided to take MCAT and apply for med school,
do I have any chance of being accepted to a elite school?
Can I apply my foreign medical school credits toward premed requirements?

appreciate your comments,
Click to expand...

Huh? Only read far enough to see that the first person responding to your post said "WTF???" Most FMGs are annoyed by the fact that they have to pass the USMLE and go through residency once again. You're seriously asking about your chances at med school??? Half the physicians I work with came from countries most of us would only know if we had a "countries of the world" shower curtain! They take Kaplan, pass the USMLE, and go straight into residency.

What's YOUR deal???
 
Schemp said:
Of course it's statistics. But how many IM physicians are there? I'd say at least several tens of thousands. If there are 100,000, don't you think at least 20,000 are making around 100-120K, at most? Like you said, it's statistics. And particularly for someone who hates their job, the odds of them making on the low end seems even more likely.
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well if you want to argue that then you may very well expect to die tomorrow, even though the average mortality in America is 78 for the older generations and by the time we get there it'll be 85 or higher.

In any case, it's a pretty strong indicator of where you'll be if you're middle of the road. The ones who makes less are terrible businessmen, or are in terribly competitive markets (read metropolitan areas), or are working for the government. However, the pay for government is skewed because the benefits rival what you would get in private practice.

Not to mention that COngress is slated to cut funding for high paying specialties like cardiology and radiology and adding funding for primary care positions but to say that there is some outlier who makes 5000 a year? Sure. Either they'r a ****** or perhaps they're working part time for instance. But in general, you can expect to make that range if you're middle of the road, and most people are comfortable with that as well.
 
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