Interpersonal issues

[skelleftea]

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Hi folks,

I was just wondering what you think about the following situation. I am really worried I made a big mistake...

I started rotations this week and have been allocated my group. In it there is a guy who makes me feel very on edge and uneasy. A short background: in our MS2 year we had a weekly discussion group and the rule was that if you want to say something, you raise your hand. We were discussing something - I was speaking - when this guy suddenly brusquely told me to shush because someone else wanted to say something (a girl he's friends with). Fair enough, I hadn't seen her hand up (if I had I would have finished what I was saying sooner), but I felt just shushing me mid-sentence was uncalled for. I felt disrespected and upset, but didn't say anything because I was shocked and not very good at standing up for myself sometimes. The teacher asked me afterwards if I was ok as she'd noticed what'd happened, but I didn't want to make a big deal out of it and said it was fine.

I emailed him afterwards to apologise for not seeing the girl's hand and that I would make sure to not let it happen again; I also said I would appreciate not being shushed again mid-sentence. The email was polite and light in tone. Reason I emailed was because I don't have his phone # and because I felt too embarrassed immediately after class to talk face to face. I have probs with my self-esteem, so his behavior just triggered more negative emotions in me then it would in someone else. He never got back to me about it (I know he read the email), so for all I know he either thinks I was ridiculous for bringing him up on his behavior and didn't merit a response, or he thinks what he did was normal and thus doesn't merit comment.

Now, fast-forward to MS3. We're in the same group and will be taught and be on the wards together. I feel his presence would impair my learning; I'd find it harder to concentrate as I'd be wondering if he'd say something in front of the group that shows disrespect for me (and make people think what it is about me that makes him behave that way). So I asked the group coordinator after class if I could be allocated another group. The groups are done randomly and teaching starts tomorrow, so moving at this stage was the best time I guess.

He asked why I wanted to move, I said because because of a person in my group (didn't tell him who though), and gave a brief background. He said people normally would only be moved if there was a history of harrassment or bullying, which was I think was not the case here.

I told him that I was torn because on one hand professionalism requires you to be able to work with whoever, and I wanted to be professional about it. Also, our groups get re-jumbled every 3 months, so I may end up in the same group as him again in future. I told him I just wanted to be able to start off on the right foot and be able to focus fully on learning the essential skills they teach us in the first few months, and that I felt that being in the same group as this guy may impact that. I also said that I wouldn't ask if this issue had been resolved, but he hadn't felt the need for response and so I felt unsure where I stood with him.

I have now been moved to another group, and the coordinator said that he would not take this up with the med school. I also assured him that I was to be treated like any other student after this first rotation (ie put in whatever group the med school want to put me in). This was to be a one-off. I just want to be able to focus properly in the first rotation and was asking to be moved for that reason alone. Once I've found my feet I'll be happy to learn to deal with being around this guy and treating him as though nothing ever happened.

Now my worry:

What if he DOES raise it with the med school, and/or thinks I am mentally unstable and unable to handle the pressure?

I would love to be able to just let it go when someone dislikes me or is disrespectful, but I am still working on that one (I am in counselling btw, which the med school knows about). So they obviously have accepted that I need some assistance with some things and are not questioning my fitness. I am just really worried that I have drawn attention to myself now for the wrong reasons.

I wanted a chance to learn without constantly feeling on edge for a while.

Should I have kept schtum?

 

[scootad.]

Yes, it was a mistake to mention this to the coordinator. I am similar to you, in that I can be a little self conscious, shy and intimidated but there comes a point in time (and MS3 is well past that time) where you have to stop caring and be yourself. You should not have sent that apology email as you had nothing to apologize for. It's time to grow up and show yourself some respect.

Especially in MS3 where they will use any possible flaw against you...you don't want to be perceived as someone who has trouble working with others

 

[skelleftea]

Thanks for your reply, that it what I am worried about.

Ironically it's the GUY in question who the med school should maybe wonder about (ie his ability to work with others), but because I got upset about it I am now the one with the problem 🙁

For me, it was a choice of either doing worse because of being in the same group as this guy (and being less able to focus; when I am on edge I find that I learn less), or asking to move and learn better but risk being seen as a potential 'problem child'.

I thought choice # 1 was the worse option longer-term (bc I thought if I do well the med school will not question my abilities to do the job). but I'm not sure anymore.

I hate making the wrong decision...and have started to question whether I am tough enough to make it in medicine. If something like this makes me less able to concentrate, it's not a good sign, is it? I really hope the counselling will help make me worry less what others think about me, otherwise I'll be doomed.

If I try and really impress my teachers over the next few months (not brown-nosing, just being good at whatever we're doing) and work well with the people in my group, do you guys think it's possible to smooth this over? Especially as there won't be anything written up about it?

 

[scootad.]

This is an important lesson in life (not just medicine). But perhaps it's even more important in medicine because as a doctor you will be required to interact with all types of people - quiet, funny, angry, drug addicts, crazys, and yes even bullies.

Just learn from this and move on. Don't dwell on it.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Thanks for your reply, that it what I am worried about.

Ironically it's the GUY in question who the med school should maybe wonder about (ie his ability to work with others), but because I got upset about it I am now the one with the problem 🙁

Unfortunately, that's not really the case. The guy may be a jerk, but you are the one who is showing an inability to work with others, by more or less refusing to work in the same group as this guy. You have to develop a thicker skin and find ways to work despite the presence of people you dislike.

For me, it was a choice of either doing worse because of being in the same group as this guy (and being less able to focus; when I am on edge I find that I learn less), or asking to move and learn better but risk being seen as a potential 'problem child'.

I thought choice # 1 was the worse option longer-term (bc I thought if I do well the med school will not question my abilities to do the job). but I'm not sure anymore.

You forgot choice number three: stay in the same group and get over it.

I recognize this is a lot easier said than done. But you are going to have to interact professionally with people you dislike/don't respect for the rest of your career. You won't always get the choice of switching groups, etc.

If I try and really impress my teachers over the next few months (not brown-nosing, just being good at whatever we're doing) and work well with the people in my group, do you guys think it's possible to smooth this over? Especially as there won't be anything written up about it?

I think this is going to be a non-issue with regards to your rotations. I would suggest simply forgetting about it. Don't try to "smooth it over" and don't send another apology e-mail to the coordinator. Don't worry about "what ifs". Do your work and forget about this.

 

[dilated]

War and Peace

Holy ****. This entire story: some guy said "Shush" to you years ago and then never showed any evidence that he ever thought about it again?

No, you shouldn't have said anything. Because somebody is guaranteed to say something far, far worse to you in the next year. And then they'll say even worse things when you're in residency. You'd better start preparing for that (or stocking up on xanax).

 

[Evergrey]

I've had a professor tell me "f*** you" in class, I think he meant it jokingly, but it was still a surprise. Got the worst grade in all of college in that class. Anyway you just gotta move on, there's nothing you can do about it but just move past it and be stronger.

 

[skelleftea]

Thanks for everyone's input.

In a way, if I mess up I can understand someone being rude to me, I just find it hard when someone is rude to you for no reason. Is this the reality of being a medical student?

I will try and take your advice and just move on from this and forget about it. I hope the coordinator will too! You guys think this will be the end of it, there won't be any alarmbells ringing? I really want to be able to learn from this and just move on.

For future ref:

How do you develop a thicker skin? You know when people tell you "just imagine people in the nude" to get them to relax if they're nervous about public speaking - is there something equivalent here? Like tell myself if someone is rude to me: "you're an ass and I'm glad I'm not as rude as you!" and hope their attitude comes to bite them in the ass one day?

How do you stop feeling rubbish about yourself when someone is disrespectful to you? It stresses me out to look at someone or talk to them if they behave like this guy did, because it makes me think there is something wrong with me that causes him to act like that.

 

[scootad.]

Don't stoop to their level. If someone is consistently rude it will be obvious to everyone around him and it will bite him/her in the ass eventually. Doctors by necessity are observant people...you even recall the teacher back in M2 recognizing how rude he was when he/she approached you afterwards and said "are you ok?"

If you are considerate but strong and confident that will shine through.

 

[skelleftea]

Noone said anything at the time though, which makes me wonder if there is indeed something about me that makes people (this guy plus the others in the group) think that behaving like that towards me is the logical thing to do... He is quite popular.

I can do the whole "be nice, and let rude people dig their own holes" thing...as people are observant, like you said. How do I stop feeling rubbish though? It's my feelings in situations like that which I find hard to handle, and my feelings then impact how well I concentrate, how much I learn and how I behave around the person in question.

If I could find the emotional equivalent of "la la la, I'm not listening", I'd be set!

 

[Pinkertinkle]

u sound like u need some therapy to get over this self esteem thing

 

[scootad.]

He is quite popular.

This isn't junior high school. Who cares who's popular? You're in med school to learn a craft...stay focused on that. Residencies don't select candidates based on who is popular. As far as friends are concerned, you can find them in med school or on the outside or both.

 

[skelleftea]

You can't learn medicine without others though. If you're unpopular, people will not want to work with you (even if they're professional about it, it kinda shows) and your teachers will notice and wonder why.

I have friends outside med school, but seem to struggle making friends IN med school.

Pinkertinkle: I am in therapy but it's hard to predict how soon progress happens.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

You can't learn medicine without others though. If you're unpopular, people will not want to work with you (even if they're professional about it, it kinda shows) and your teachers will notice and wonder why.

Pinkertinkle: I am in therapy but it's hard to predict how soon progress happens.

o good, best of luck

On the bright side at least you don't have too much confidence, a condition which afflicts many in medical school and beyond

 

[skelleftea]

Gets them places though, doesn't it.

Why is confidence (confidence, not arrogance) a bad thing?

 

[skelleftea]

>> Who cares who's popular? You're in med school to learn a craft...stay focused on that. Residencies don't select candidates based on who is popular

I'm still puzzled about this...

How can you learn this if others (med students, nurses, docs) don't think you're a nice and interesting person to be around? So what if you can do a spot-on H&E and a mean venepuncture...if you can't join in the banter about sport/what people are doing in the evening, you're considered a loser.

People in my year don't talk about medicine in breaks, they talk about gossip, what they did at the weekend, etc. They don't talk shop all the time, and their focus is as much on medicine as it is on their life outside it. So if you're in med school to learn a craft, one way to make yourself unpopular is to live and breathe medicine. People will think you're sad if you do.

Is my med school weird?

 

[scootad.]

I think you are overthinking things. Yes, as in all aspects of life sometimes there is a time for small talk. But I did well in my clinicals (M3) and I'm certainly not the best small talker. For the most part I worked hard, had a smile on my face, and was considerate. That's all. You really don't have to be the nurse's best friend. Just be cordial and approachable. People see through fake.

 

[skelleftea]

I wish I was at your medical school...

I have had jobs before I started med school, where being best buds with your colleagues was a bonus, not an essential. What mattered most was how well you could do your job.

Medicine (at least where I'm studying) seems to be different. I like the patients, and have lots of patient contact experience and had compliments on my patient manner...shame I'm falling short on being someone that my colleagues want to have around.

 

[scootad.]

shame I'm falling short on being someone that my colleagues want to have around.

I can guarantee you that your colleagues are more concerned with getting honors and acing the shelf to give a **** about who of their classmates they want to have around

 

[skelleftea]

I wish I was studying in the US then...if being good at the academics is what matters most. I study in Europe, where we don't have shelf exams, and whilst you get an eval at the end of each rotation, they don't count towards your end-of-year grade or will be taken into account when you apply for jobs.

 

[psipsina]

Honestly if that minor episode has you this worked up it might do you some good to get a therapist and work thru your self esteem stuff. I've had ruder things than a "shhhhh" from attendings where you just have to grin and bear it and it can't affect your concentration. You're going to be around people and some of them aren't going to be great. Its best to figure out now how you can not let them get into your head or the rest of medschool and residency will be a looooong hard road.

 

[Depakote]

Thanks for everyone's input.

In a way, if I mess up I can understand someone being rude to me, I just find it hard when someone is rude to you for no reason. Is this the reality of being a medical student?

There will be times when people yell at you for things that aren't your fault. You can't let them rattle you, and you shouldn't always expect an apology. That's their problem, not yours. Sometimes people are just jerks, life goes on.

BTW. This isn't just the reality of being a student, this is life.

 

[ULTRA nerves]

Hi, skelleftea!

The best way to handle is to put the past behind you. Don't let things like that bother you. What was done was done, and there isn't much you can do about that now.

In fact, you shouldn't let anything that happens on rotations really get to you because others will embarrass, be mean or even rude just because..esp. if the resident was post-call, or the attending is having too many consults or if it was the nurses' worse day ever. Just realize that you are on the bottom of the totem pole...and that it is all so easy to get blamed or feel that it is your fault.

If your classmate continues this rude behavior, others will catch on and he will get cold shoulders...and he will realize soon enough and become courteous....I have seen that happening with some of my classmates.

Appearing stupid in front of people bothers you very much, then make sure that you are ready for it because you will get embarrassed at least once each block. As a 3rd year, being shushed, blamed for something that you did not do, appearing brainless...is the reality. This happens to every medical student, not just you...this is the culture.

In my 3rd year, it was hard for me to take all in too. I felt embarrassed when I couldn't answer the attending's question...and when resident gives you a mean look of "shouldn't you know this already?", I felt horrible and all I wanted was to be alone...but soon I got over it. Just face the reality. Instead of escaping the pimping questions, I answered them wrong and asked more questions...I showed interest and I learned, which was my priority...that is what matters. I began to defend myself for things I could possibly get blamed for. Soon you will learn to defend yourself too, be more vocal and express your opinions. As your clinical knowledge builds up, you will be able to answer questions with confidence too. Be eager to learn, stay efficient with your given work, try being helpful (i.e. get vitals in the morning, gather supplies for bedside procedures, help nurses clean up...) and have a smile on your face; you will do fine. You are early in your training and no one expects you to have answers to all questions, maybe some. Plus, the attendings with good intentions will embarrass you publicly on purpose in order to motivate you to learn.

Welcome to medicine. 3rd yr is hard in that everything is new. You are pressured to adapt quickly.

I am not sure how different things are in Europe but I hope that you find this helpful.

 

[dilated]

How do you develop a thicker skin? You know when people tell you "just imagine people in the nude" to get them to relax if they're nervous about public speaking - is there something equivalent here? Like tell myself if someone is rude to me: "you're an ass and I'm glad I'm not as rude as you!" and hope their attitude comes to bite them in the ass one day?

You feel like crap slightly less every time someone yells at you. Eventually you become immune to someone screaming from six inches away from your face about how you are the biggest failure to ever walk the earth. This phenomenon reaches its conclusion in senior surgery residents who wouldn't blink twice if their mother told them they were the worst doctor she'd ever seen.

 

[Top Gun]

I think you're going to have to try to get to the point where you say to yourself, "What other people say to me doesn't matter." I'm a second-year resident now. While I seem to get more respect this year, last year I took plenty of crap from everyone: attendings, nurses, case managers, senior residents, etc.... I used to be like you in third year. Whenever someone yelled at me, I took it personally. Now I've learned how to let it roll off my back. The good news is that as you become more competent, the yelling decreases. Anyway, in my opinion, you should have stayed in the group. This was a minor incident that occurred only once. If it was a pattern of that guy disrespecting you, I still wouldn't leave the group. I would stand up to that guy and tell him that he can't talk to me like that. I've actually done that with some of the people who've given me crap. But only with those who don't hold any seniority over me. So basically what I'm saying is either let it roll off your back, or grow a pair and stand up for yourself.

 

[skelleftea]

Thanks for some helpful feedback.

Can I just ask: if you were in a group, and one of the people was rude to one person (but never anyone else), who would you wonder was the problem? Wouldn't you think there was something wrong with the person on the receiving end, as they are the only person treated a certain way?

I just wish I knew when to stand up for myself (with those on the same level as me, not my superiors) and when to let it slide. I don't want to come across as someone who'll bristle at every slight. I have never been able to stand up for myself, and have been taken advantage of most of my life by friends and strangers. When I was a teenager, and I used to ask my brother not to do something (usually stuff like play loud music when I was trying to sleep), he'd do the exact opposite and make it clear I was not someone to be listened to or taken seriously. Sometimes something small can have a huge impact on people. This has really stayed with me, and my default assumption is that people will not listen to my requests or take me serious. This is then a vicious circle because if I don't ask, I don't have the chance to get proven wrong in my assumptions. I know this and am still too scared to try. I have made tentative tries, but they have failed. So I am even more scared to try again.

Now my default is to either accept people's treatment of me, or go into blind indignation. With more and more emphasis on the latter. I get annoyed by people far more than I ever did, ie their treatment of me makes me both angry and sad, whereas before it would just make me sad. And all that anger I take out on me, because I cannot stand up for myself.

I guess the first step to standing up for yourself is feeling that someone is treating you wrong. Ok. But I don't know how to to the actually standing-up part and get the other person to stop doing/do what I want them to do, or to change their behavious towards me. I guess I am either not likeable enough, or don't know how to 'persuade' people it's the smart thing to do.

I feel helpless and stuck.

 

[scootad.]

My guess (and I am not a psychiatrist) is that you blow the smallest perceived slight out of proportion. (I used to do this myself and sometimes have to catch myself doing it even presently). My impression from your posts is you interpret even fairly neutral situations as a negative attack on you - this is what you have to work on. Stop being so oversensitive. Realize that most humans are selfish and looking out solely for their own self interest. Almost all percieved slights or attacks on your character try to attribute to the person merely wanting to hear his/her own voice. Take comfort in knowing you are pursuing a field where you will often be respected and your opinion will matter greatly to your patients.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Can I just ask: if you were in a group, and one of the people was rude to one person (but never anyone else), who would you wonder was the problem? Wouldn't you think there was something wrong with the person on the receiving end, as they are the only person treated a certain way?

If i were in such a situation i would think whoever was picking on another person is the jerk and the problem. No I would not think there is something wrong with the person on the receiving end.

 

[skelleftea]

Yet in the situation with that guy noone said anything, including the teacher (she asked me afterwards in private if I was ok) - he shushed me, I stopped talking and the other girl started after a short pause.

So I assumed that his behaviour was normal, otherwise surely someone would have said something?

If he is a jerk and/or has an attitude problem, then why does he have loads of friends and is popular with staff and students, while I am socially on the fringes? I can't imagine all his friends actively chose to be friends with a jerk? So the problem must be me - I can't think of another explanation that makes sense...

 

[skelleftea]

My guess (and I am not a psychiatrist) is that you blow the smallest perceived slight out of proportion. (I used to do this myself and sometimes have to catch myself doing it even presently). My impression from your posts is you interpret even fairly neutral situations as a negative attack on you - this is what you have to work on. Stop being so oversensitive. Realize that most humans are selfish and looking out solely for their own self interest. Almost all percieved slights or attacks on your character try to attribute to the person merely wanting to hear his/her own voice. Take comfort in knowing you are pursuing a field where you will often be respected and your opinion will matter greatly to your patients.

You make a good point, and yes, I do what you're describing. I've had CBT for this, and it worked to some extent, but it's still a problem for me. I catastrophise a lot.

Maybe med school is the wrong place for someone like me.

 

[scootad.]

Yet in the situation with that guy noone said anything, including the teacher (she asked me afterwards in private if I was ok) - he shushed me, I stopped talking and the other girl started after a short pause.

So I assumed that his behaviour was normal, otherwise surely someone would have said something?

Unfortunately, often times these days kids grow up thinking it is ok to interrupt someone if they want to get their point across. An appropriate reaction after what you described would be - once the girl who interrupted you finished talking, then you should speak up and say what else you wanted to say. And move on with your life.

These things happen all the time. Don't take them personally.

 

[scootad.]

If he is a jerk and/or has an attitude problem, then why does he have loads of friends and is popular with staff and students, while I am socially on the fringes? I can't imagine all his friends actively chose to be friends with a jerk? So the problem must be me - I can't think of another explanation that makes sense...

What's more worrying to me is your concern for popularity. You seem to put people like this guy on a pedestal and clearly view yourself as socially inferior. As a med student (as well as any human being) you need a support system with friends, family, and people you can count on. It does not sound like you have these things. This is what is most worrisome to me. Do you have at least one close friend you can talk to? A lack of social support leads to a lack of self esteem which contributes to isolationism...eventually this may lead people to maladaptive behaviors (i.e. think unibomber). Please get yourself some help if you feel isolated.

 

[Boba Q Fett]

Is this post for real or a troll? Someone "shushed" you and you start crying like a baby on the internet? This can't be real.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

If he is a jerk and/or has an attitude problem, then why does he have loads of friends and is popular with staff and students, while I am socially on the fringes? I can't imagine all his friends actively chose to be friends with a jerk? So the problem must be me - I can't think of another explanation that makes sense...

Sure there's plenty of jerks who are popular. Another explanation is that they're all jerks and like to hang out with each other.

 

[skelleftea]

What's more worrying to me is your concern for popularity. You seem to put people like this guy on a pedestal and clearly view yourself as socially inferior. As a med student (as well as any human being) you need a support system with friends, family, and people you can count on. It does not sound like you have these things. This is what is most worrisome to me. Do you have at least one close friend you can talk to? A lack of social support leads to a lack of self esteem which contributes to isolationism...eventually this may lead people to maladaptive behaviors (i.e. think unibomber). Please get yourself some help if you feel isolated.

I have spent most of my life trying (and mostly failing) to be liked by everyone. It's only in the last few years that I have started to realise that I am not a failure if NOT everyone likes me. However, I still have low self-esteem and feel like I am inadequate (this stems from way back, when things happened in my life that made me feel second-class) in most situations. I am working to change this view of myself, but this takes time as I am working on changing feelings and views that are decades old.

I have close friends who I can talk to about this (not med students though), and I have a supportive boyfriend. My family live in another country, but they have their own worries and I have found that in the past they would blindly side with me when I had problems and tell me that *I* was not the problem. I found this unhelpful as sometimes I am the problem, and their blind loyalty is not helping. Also, my parents both have health problems, and worrying about me makes them worse, so I don't tell them about my problems anymore. I talk to friends/bf/therapist instead.

Despite this network I feel isolated at med school though. And my friends are at that stage in their life where marriage/babies/job moves/country moves are quite common, so I can't count on them being there forever. And romantic relationships can break up, so ideally I'd like to be able to be my own support network. How do others cope with this? Do they just make use of their support system when it's there, and are their own support if that system breaks down for whatever reason?

But don't worry, I am not the sort of person who takes their frustration out on others - I just take my anger out on myself somehow (like put myself down, deprive myself of situations that might benefit me).

 

[tfom08]

People tend not to enjoy hanging out with people who are easily offended and constantly worried about what someone else is thinking of them. Small talk and having interesting conversations during downtime is definitely going to play a role in a clinical grade because it will effect how your residents think of you. Even if you are equal in other aspects, residents will appreciate students who are pleasurable to be around and interesting compared to someone who is basically a wet blanket for a month. I'm not saying it's right, but medicine is a social job in most specialties. If you have difficulty interacting with others without encountering stress and anxiety, you should consider that when choosing a specialty.

 

[OncoCaP]

Looks like you have a wealth of suggestions already. In addition to the many good ideas, I suggest you find a counselor or mentor to discuss these issues and others that will come up. An online forum is somewhat limited in what it has to offer with respect to your concerns. I'm sure that you probably realize that you are quite sensitive. My impression is that you are going to experience many rewarding and, unfortunately, some unpleasant situations in the months and years ahead in your medical training. It will help to have someone who is adept at talking you through concerns so as to minimize your anxiety and stress.

 

[Cerberus]

My god man, suck it up and move on. If you think that was bad, you are going to have a HARD time this year on clinicals.

 

[bambi]

Ok so on this thread everyone seems very supportive and nice so I might come across as a bitch but if someone telling you to shhhush has you whining years later why on earth are you in medicine? How do you ever expect to cope? At some point, pts, doctors nurses etc will probably be rude to you, what are you going to do then? This thing honestly sounds so ridiculous to me that I'm not sure if it's just all a joke? The guy probably doesn't even remember it, maybe he didn't reply to your email because he thought it was weird and didn't know what to say? Maybe he thinks you are rude for ignoring the other person? Plenty of people are rude and then pretend to apologise later. Telling someone to shhushh when they have been talking for ages and not letting others is hardly what I would call rude anyway. There are plenty of real problems out there, this isn't one of them, get a grip!

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I've already told it previously and I'll say it AGAIN: You are a med student and you don't really exist in the hospital. Everyone hates you because it's too big of a chore to teach you things because you will suck at it. If you are good at paperwork (something you learn on the job and can't be taught in a classroom), people will like you more. If we can have an extra hand helping out in one minor paperwork thing while us your superiors can attend to a patient, that would rule!!! I'm very lax to students, I find it annoying when students are acting like highschoolers laughing and joking too loudly in front of patients. I don't mind if you leave the room if there's no work, don't be fooling around with patients because they find it annoying. Enjoy it while you can, as an intern the rules change.

It's been said to you previously and I'll say it AGAIN: you have an amazing superiority complex for someone who is still a student themselves.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

It's been said to you previously and I'll say it AGAIN: you have an amazing superiority complex for someone who is still a student themselves.

plus im not sure how well his international advice applies to the US.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

plus im not sure how well his international advice applies to the US.

It doesn't - that has been shown on many many threads.

 

[NAGNAM]

You shouldn't have let him shoosh you in the first place. You gotta take care of that **** before it starts.

 

[smq123]

But I'm not a student as in classroom student. Sadly this website has no status for "Intern". It would be stupid to place my status as Resident when I'm obviously not one, interns in many countries aren't MD's yet.

So basically...an "intern" in Mexico = an MS3/MS4 in the US.

The point that many people here are trying to make, I think, is that it's...unfair to speak negatively of all medical students when, to be honest, you probably have the same responsibilities and medical knowledge of an MS3/MS4.

As an MS3, I also worked 60-80 hours a week. As an MS4, that number went up to over 100. Still didn't make me an intern, though.

From the perspective of a US med student, an intern in Mexico, who does not have the full rights and responsibilities of being a full physician, is basically not much more senior or experienced than an MS3/MS4 in the US would be. So I think that some of your comments about how "useless" medical students are kind of rub some people the wrong way. 😳

And sure, I understand that it's different when you're on the "other side," now that I am a newly minted intern/resident myself. And I've also had med students who were unprofessional, difficult to be around, and not fun to work with. But still....you were in their shoes not that long ago. Many of them are clueless...but you were clueless once too.

And I will have an even bigger superiority complex the day I become an MD and an even bigger superiority complex the day I become a resident.

😱 You're a PHYSICIAN, not GOD.

You can be firm, and confident, and refuse to let your patients treat you like trash, withOUT becoming an arrogant, egotistical idiot yourself.

If I do have some level of superiority complex, maybe the fact that only 50% of all med students that entered my university have actually made it as far as I have gives me some level of ego entitlement.

If that is the case, then ALL US medical students should have the same superiority complex.

Less than 50% of applicants who apply to a United States medical school in any given year will make it in. All of us who are medical students were in that minority. Several more will drop out each year. But, for those of us who DO make it, it doesn't mean that we're SOOO much better, as human beings, than others.

It's not like becoming a physician in Mexico is so much more gruelling than it is anywhere else that it gives you the right to develop a superiority complex.

Plus - since you have so much "great clinical experience" that you brag about so much, maybe it's time that you actually took an objective look at some of your patients. Sure, becoming a physician is hard. But so is anything else in life. I had a patient who was diagnosed with metastatic cancer 2 weeks before his wife delivered their 2nd child. Despite it all, they were both very sweet, very polite, and had a sunnier, more optimistic disposition than anyone in the hospital. To me, THAT's truly worthy of

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

But I'm not a student as in classroom student.

Neither are we

Sadly this website has no status for "Intern". It would be stupid to place my status as Resident when I'm obviously not one, interns in many countries aren't MD's yet.

Again, this is an instance where your experience is nothing like ours. An intern is a resident in the US - the title you carry is not equivalent to a US intern.

You get to see a lot of things differently when you get to the other side.

From my perspective, you AREN'T "on the other side" - you are still a medical student, and the role you play is very similar to what we do in the US as 3rd/4th year students.

It's a chore to teach students procedures when they rotate just for 4 hours 5 days a week and will move somewhere else in 2 weeks. I let them do some minor things if I have the time, but I didn't get to do much anyways when I was a student (sometimes they left us waiting outside in the hallway for 2 hours doing nothing while they passed rounds).

This is not at all what 3rd/4th year is like in US medical schools.

And I will have an even bigger superiority complex the day I become an MD and an even bigger superiority complex the day I become a resident. To walk the walk you have to talk the talk.

See SMQ's comments.

 

[dilated]

From the perspective of a US med student, an intern in Mexico, who does not have the full rights and responsibilities of being a full physician, is basically not much more senior or experienced than an MS3/MS4 in the US would be. So I think that some of your comments about how "useless" medical students are kind of rub some people the wrong way. 😳

Mexico is a straight from HS system. So in actuality, the mighty "M5 intern" is several years younger than the average US MS4. And the "silly medical students" he lords over there are practically teenagers. It's not surprising his maturity is slightly lacking.