Interview experience at Cleveland Clinic (Categorical IM)

[matchplease99]

Has anyone finished interview at CCF (Internal Medicine) ?

It would be highly appreciated if he or she can share the experience.

Thank you very much!

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[Stedari]

I interviewed there last year and it was fine. These were my takeaways:
They are very proud of their cardiology fellowships and quick to point out that they even accept 1 or 2 of their own applicants
The didactics were strong and well attended but also had a competitive environment among the residents
The facilities are great but odd. The walls are white-washed and the nurses uniformly wore white.
They seem to have a really strong mentor program and research opportunities galore
Lots of international graduates in the program and interviewing
Cleveland was actually pretty cool and had a lot to offer -- which was probably the biggest surprise for me
They have a pre-intern year ICU crash course which sounded helpful
The interview itself was casual and conversational like every other one I attended; also, the food was better (they have a fancy buffet)
There didn't seem to be a lot of camaraderie among the residents. Multiple interns didn't know each other (this was mid-November).

 

[medstudent7860]

What is the general consensus on Cleveland Clinic? It's ranked #15 on Doximity but I can't tell if the IM residency is actually prestigious/has a good rep. There are a lot of IMGs in the program. It seemed to me as though the program was comprised of about 2/5ths MDs, 2/5ths IMGs, and 1/5th DO.

 

[IMreshopeful]

What is the general consensus on Cleveland Clinic? It's ranked #15 on Doximity but I can't tell if the IM residency is actually prestigious/has a good rep. There are a lot of IMGs in the program. It seemed to me as though the program was comprised of about 2/5ths MDs, 2/5ths IMGs, and 1/5th DO.

It's not as good as many other programs and probably not in that tier. It definitely helps provide an "in" if you're trying to go to CCF for cardiology fellowship, but the same can be done through any number of other better training programs. I think the doximity rankings are junk, personally, as are most rankings of programs that seem to arise out on the internet every so often.

 

[pulmoblast]

It's a malignant program...shouldn't be in your top 3 IMHO

 

[tantacles]

I thought the interview day was good, but it didn't knock my socks off. The didactics were wonderful and chief-resident-run. The PD was effervescent, though I wonder with such a big program how it stays organized. 4+1 system is always a plus for me.

No pre-interview dinner definitely hurt it for me. I felt like I got to know the residents very minimally, and the ones I met were just running the tour. The couple I talked to at lunch were very nice, though.

Ultimately, I felt it would be a great place to train, but it just didn't strike me as positively as some other programs did.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I interviewed there last year and it was fine. These were my takeaways:
They are very proud of their cardiology fellowships and quick to point out that they even accept 1 or 2 of their own applicants
The didactics were strong and well attended but also had a competitive environment among the residents
The facilities are great but odd. The walls are white-washed and the nurses uniformly wore white.
They seem to have a really strong mentor program and research opportunities galore
Lots of international graduates in the program and interviewing
Cleveland was actually pretty cool and had a lot to offer -- which was probably the biggest surprise for me
They have a pre-intern year ICU crash course which sounded helpful
The interview itself was casual and conversational like every other one I attended; also, the food was better (they have a fancy buffet)
There didn't seem to be a lot of camaraderie among the residents. Multiple interns didn't know each other (this was mid-November).

In terms of camaraderie, the residents seem to get along very well. I agree it is not as close as some programs but you must realize, it is a very large program- one of the largest in the country with 50+ residents a year and about 70 interns. So, some people aren't going to know each other a few months into the year. Truth be told, when I was in residency, I didn't even realize one of my co-interns was a medicine intern when going down to the ER and she was doing a rotation down there in December... and we had 30 fewer interns in our class than CCF does.

In terms of prestige, it does not rank at the top on the same tier as say Columbia, Hopkins, MGH, Duke, Penn, UCSF. It is an upper mid-tier program. That said, you aren't going to get exposed to such strong fellowships at pretty much any other mid-tier program in the country. Their cardiology is #1, Pulm, GI, rheum, renal and endocrine are all top 3 by US news.

It is NOT malignant in the least and quite frankly I feel if anything they coddle their medicine residents.

 

[CLE]

I have nothing against the residents who train at CCF -- everyone has a right to pursue their career goals with pride about their training institution. I have extensive experience working with them -- they are kind, knowledgeable, down to earth, and have diverse backgrounds and interests. I write this post not as an affront to those hard-working residents, but rather to combat so much of the misinformation that CCF spreads to confuse strong IM applicants in order to lure them to a program for which they are likely overqualified.

CCF willfully distorts reality to sell you their program on interview day (and every day after that). They give you a fellowship match list with the last 10 years of matches mixed in with no separation by year or number of matches so you can't tell if it is actually strong or not. They tell you all about how Steve Nissen is on faculty, but don't mention that interns aren't allowed in the CICU. They tell you that their residents publish 100's of articles, but don't mention that it is in the Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine. They repeatedly state that CCF is the "#1" IM program in OH, but is dwarfed in every meaningful category for evaluating academic training programs by the IM program down the road (Case/UH).

Dr Spencer is very bright and warm, and I think will continue to bring positive changes to the program -- however, it is ultimately a community program and is outpaced and dominated by its fellowship programs to the point of absurdity.

How anyone can conflate CCF as even an "upper mid-tier" program is beyond me and just shows that propaganda gains ground over time.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I have nothing against the residents who train at CCF -- everyone has a right to pursue their career goals with pride about their training institution. I have extensive experience working with them -- they are kind, knowledgeable, down to earth, and have diverse backgrounds and interests. I write this post not as an affront to those hard-working residents, but rather to combat so much of the misinformation that CCF spreads to confuse strong IM applicants in order to lure them to a program for which they are likely overqualified.

CCF willfully distorts reality to sell you their program on interview day (and every day after that). They give you a fellowship match list with the last 10 years of matches mixed in with no separation by year or number of matches so you can't tell if it is actually strong or not. They tell you all about how Steve Nissen is on faculty, but don't mention that interns aren't allowed in the CICU. They tell you that their residents publish 100's of articles, but don't mention that it is in the Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine. They repeatedly state that CCF is the "#1" IM program in OH, but is dwarfed in every meaningful category for evaluating academic training programs by the IM program down the road (Case/UH).

Dr Spencer is very bright and warm, and I think will continue to bring positive changes to the program -- however, it is ultimately a community program and is outpaced and dominated by its fellowship programs to the point of absurdity.

How anyone can conflate CCF as even an "upper mid-tier" program is beyond me and just shows that propaganda gains ground over time.

I too have experience with the IM residents at CCF, in a supervisory capacity. By your posts, sounds like you are actually an applicant.

As to the assertion that it is a community program- technically it is since it isnt associated with a university (although has a medical school). Yes, technically it is a community program but doesn't suffer from the same problems that Community programs tend to- namely volume and complexity issues and lack of didactics. It is hard to argue that it wouldn't be at least a mid-tier program and by the strong match list and national reputation (ie Doximity rankings), exposure to complex pathology you wont see at most other mid-tier programs, it should fit in the top of the mid-tier.

You are right, compared to the top tier programs, it is more fellow run. The volume however of some of these specialties is enormous. For instance, the cardiology department has more cardiology hospital beds than Johns Hopkins has ALL IM (including specialty) beds. There are 11 cardiology services, 2 cardiology ICUs, 4 cardiothoracic surgery ICUs and a vascular surgery ICU. And that's just cardiology.

The CICU at CCF is not a place for interns. It is far too fast paced. It is one of the largest CICUs in the country, likely with the most turnover averaging about 10-12 daily admissions. Interns do spend time on clinical cardiology as well as cardiology consults. Second year (and third year if they want) they spend time in the CICU as well as on Clinical Cardiology.

The fellowship match list by individual year is available online http://my.clevelandclinic.org/servi...medicine-residency-program/fellowships#taba-2. While I never interviewed there, I suspect they give you the same stuff that is available online.

There is a lot of bad things said on SDN about CCF''s IM prgroam. While some of it is accurate, a lot is not.

 

[CLE]

I too have experience with the IM residents at CCF, in a supervisory capacity. By your posts, sounds like you are actually an applicant.

As to the assertion that it is a community program- technically it is since it isnt associated with a university (although has a medical school). Yes, technically it is a community program but doesn't suffer from the same problems that Community programs tend to- namely volume and complexity issues and lack of didactics. It is hard to argue that it wouldn't be at least a mid-tier program and by the strong match list and national reputation (ie Doximity rankings), exposure to complex pathology you wont see at most other mid-tier programs, it should fit in the top of the mid-tier.

You are right, compared to the top tier programs, it is more fellow run. The volume however of some of these specialties is enormous. For instance, the cardiology department has more cardiology hospital beds than Johns Hopkins has ALL IM (including specialty) beds. There are 11 cardiology services, 2 cardiology ICUs, 4 cardiothoracic surgery ICUs and a vascular surgery ICU. And that's just cardiology.

The CICU at CCF is not a place for interns. It is far too fast paced. It is one of the largest CICUs in the country, likely with the most turnover averaging about 10-12 daily admissions. Interns do spend time on clinical cardiology as well as cardiology consults. Second year (and third year if they want) they spend time in the CICU as well as on Clinical Cardiology.

The fellowship match list by individual year is available online http://my.clevelandclinic.org/servi...medicine-residency-program/fellowships#taba-2. While I never interviewed there, I suspect they give you the same stuff that is available online.

There is a lot of bad things said on SDN about CCF''s IM prgroam. While some of it is accurate, a lot is not.

As with most arguments, I think the reality lies somewhere in the middle. In my personal opinion, the doximity rank of #15 is misleading and CCF actively promotes this to attract residents, rather than honestly discussing the strengths and weaknesses of the program.

Thanks for posting the list -- I should have done more research before claiming that the list was hidden. I stand by my other examples.

CCF is a unique institution and the cardiac volume is immense; however, as you mentioned previously, the IM residents are largely shielded from that load which is carried by the top-tier cardiac fellows who match at CCF.

I think you are right -- CCF is often unfairly degraded on this website. The intented targets of my post are candidates who have no experience with CCF and are ranking it alongside the other top 25 programs based on Doximity ratings. It is very difficult to really understand a program based on a single interview day in a region of the country with which you are not familiar -- as we all know, true reputation is highly regionalized. However, if an applicant is looking at more mid-tier institutions, I think CCF actually offers a valuable "in" to one of the most incredible hospital systems in the world. There is no doubt that they will be exposed to some of the rarest and complex diseases in medicine.

 

[CLE]

And I admit "community program" was a cheap shot. If it's a community program, then it's the best community program in the country.

The didactics are phenomenal -- both within the department and within the hospital as a whole. It is a reflection of the exceptional quality of the attendings who practice there and the national leaders in medicine which come to speak.

 

[Instatewaiter]

As with most arguments, I think the reality lies somewhere in the middle. In my personal opinion, the doximity rank of #15 is misleading and CCF actively promotes this to attract residents, rather than honestly discussing the strengths and weaknesses of the program.

Thanks for posting the list -- I should have done more research before claiming that the list was hidden. I stand by my other examples.

CCF is a unique institution and the cardiac volume is immense; however, as you mentioned previously, the IM residents are largely shielded from that load which is carried by the top-tier cardiac fellows who match at CCF.

I think you are right -- CCF is often unfairly degraded on this website. The intented targets of my post are candidates who have no experience with CCF and are ranking it alongside the other top 25 programs based on Doximity ratings. It is very difficult to really understand a program based on a single interview day in a region of the country with which you are not familiar -- as we all know, true reputation is highly regionalized. However, if an applicant is looking at more mid-tier institutions, I think CCF actually offers a valuable "in" to one of the most incredible hospital systems in the world. There is no doubt that they will be exposed to some of the rarest and complex diseases in medicine.

I will agree, IMHO it does not reach near the #15 rank from doximity. Ranked above UVA, Baylor, Yale, UAB, UNC... dont think so. Plus those rankings are bogus including the mayo florida and mayo arizona program in the top 20ish when most wouldn't even put them in the top 100.Plus there are 2 small, insignificant Boston hospitals in the top 4. I mean who has heard of that General place or that Women's hospital. I mean what kind of versatile training could you have if you just took care of women. Plus, what is a Brigham?

Back to CCF, agreed, it is a fellow run program. Definitely one of the detractions of the program.

 

[IMreshopeful]

The doximity rankings IMO are useless. I think they're frequently misleading and should be used only as a rough guide.