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I thought it might be interesting to have a single thread on the topic of impressions obtained from our interviews...
Interview Impressions
- Thread starter bartholomew
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Rochester was my first and only interview to date. I was very favorably impressed. They put us up at a very nice hotel, offered a dinner with residents the previous night, and seemed to go out of the way to make the interview day convenient for its applicants. The hospital itself was clean, up to date in terms of facilities including computer systems, while ancillary staff seemed busy and helpful...all the gears seemed to move smoothly and quietly. The patient population appeared well varied and all tertiary services offered by the hospital seemed up to snuff, including both liver and heart transplant services. The program is relatively small with 20-some house officers in each class which seemed to facilitate comraderie. Internal medicine seemed well respected. Faculty can be either academic, hospitalist or private attending offering a fair balance of practice styles...Given all this, my impression was that this program is very likely under-rated due to its less than ideal location. Both the residents and faculty seem keenly aware of this and went to great lengths to sell Rochester as a fun place to live. For anyone looking for a nice and affordable lifestyle perhaps with a significant other or family, this program would be ideal. Personally, I'm not sure I'd thrive socially in Rochester or deal with the weather all too well. It will nonetheless rank high on my list.
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Strong Memorial (I assume that's where you interviewed at) is pretty damn solid from my impression, but I did not apply because I am just not sure I can handle 3 more years of up-state NY. The former associate dean of student at my school was trained at Rochester (she came from HMS) and did a CR year there before becoming an associate dean at Duke and subsequently becoming an associate dean at my school. She apparently chose it over places like BW.
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Or better yet, contribute by entering your entry to scutwork.com.
It's much more organized than here, which will unvariably get cluttered up with repeats and disagreements as the season progresses.
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Yep, maybe you're right Renovar.
Scutwork, however, doesn't have reviews on a lot of the programs people have been getting invitations to interview as posted on these boards...Anyhow, I'd be curious to hear other peoples' perceptions, good and bad.
Scutwork, however, doesn't have reviews on a lot of the programs people have been getting invitations to interview as posted on these boards...Anyhow, I'd be curious to hear other peoples' perceptions, good and bad.
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It was cold and dreary in St. Louis that day. I'm sure that did not help with the overall impression. It was a strange interview situation where I was asked no questions and just chatted about my hobbies with one person. Did not get good vibes from residents. A lot is comparison to other programs. I was neutral until my next interview and found much more to like.
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So I interviewed at Dartmouth recently and really enjoyed it there. Feel a bit at a crossroads now.... Part of me feels wants to go to some hot-shot place (MGH, Brigham, Penn, UCSF, UW, Stanford, etc.), yet as I get older, an ever-growing part of me wants to enjoy the rest of my life as much as is possible -- not that I don't want to take medicine seriously, and not that I don't medicine to occupy an intense position in my life -- quite the contrary. But deep down inside I think I'd prefer a program that's supportive, nurturing, positive -- like the impression I had of Dartmouth or of the primary care program at my home institution. Unfortunately, academic job prospects depend on fellowship program names, which in turn depend on residency program names. Would I be shooting myself in the foot by going to a lesser-known place where I felt more comfortable? Is one's training at a more "nurturing" program necessarily less strong or comprehensive than at a program known to be toxic e.g. MGH?
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I know exactly what you mean, feeling kinda the same myself. This is definitely a time for me to think about how far I want to take this rankings/reputation factor and completely throw it out of the window, and complete choose it on my gut feeling. Ever since HS, I have personally made lots of sacrifices to attend these so-called prestigeous institutions, when is this gonna end?
But if you have done your research on programs right, there are definitely a number of good compromising places out there. Just hope that you have some of that on your interview list...
For example, I visited Emory a couple weeks ago, and I felt that was one of them. Pretty big program, reasonably smart/motivated people, no doubt, but the PD and the whole administrative cast seems to be really involved in making residents happy. No overnight calls 80% of the time as an intern. Lots of married residents with family and stuff. In a reasonably nice part of Atlanta. Reasonably good fellowships for their categoricals and great jobs for their PC tracks.
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renovar- from what little i know a place like emory is hardly much of an academic sacrifice for IM- wouldn't be considered top 10 in the nation (or at least close)? obviously you've done well as a canadian to be attending a top US med school and now getting offers for GME from top IM programs...you deserve some peace now- "settling" for a place like emory over the potential hell you'd face at a place like MGH, etc. seems like a decent plan
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I interviewed at Montefiore (Albert Einstein) recently. Large program, residents seem pretty happy but definately work hard. Not a "glamorous" program but excellent teaching and exposure to diverse pathology. Categorical residents do very well with fellowships. The primary care/social medicine program is an well-established and nationally-recognized leader in the area. Very dedicated, nurturing faculty, lots of hands on opportunities for activism, research and patient care with one of the poorest / least healthy communities in the country. Overall, I left with a positive impression of Montefiore.
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I haven't interviewed at NYU and don't know anything about the program. My guess is that the two are comparable but NYU may have a bit more prestige since it is in Manhattan.
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Just visited UAB today. All I have to say is that the health science campus there is humongous. The program is an extremely strong one, IMO, with great residents, wonderful program administration and leadership, and just a lot of very positive energy. Absolutely no malignancy, everyone is so laid-back, energetic, and friendly. Academically, they have a lot of big names in the highly-ranked IM department and lots of NIH funding (5th if I am not mistaken.) 26 out of 34 residents last year is going to fellowships, and according to the PD, 100% of this year's 3rd year class who wants a fellowships has got offers. There is no doubt this is one of the few powerhouse programs (along with Wash U, Vandy, Emory, UNC, Duke) in the south, and is rapidly gaining considerable prestige as the south becomes more prominent nationally. It's a great place to learn medicine.
The location is perhaps the biggest drawback of the program. Just seems to me that not too many people interviewing with me today are that impressed with Birmingham, and I can't say I am a big fan of the city. Let's just say if the campus is located at a nicer, non-south location, this is the type of program I would rank way high on my list.
The location is perhaps the biggest drawback of the program. Just seems to me that not too many people interviewing with me today are that impressed with Birmingham, and I can't say I am a big fan of the city. Let's just say if the campus is located at a nicer, non-south location, this is the type of program I would rank way high on my list.
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I heard of that too, but I was extremely positively surprised. Maybe it has that history, but I visited those two places, and there is absolutely no trace of that, as far as I can tell. I would say my own experience as a MS3 and MS4 subI I probably work harder than some of their residents, looking at the hours and the schedule they are logging. In talking to the PD and the associate PD, there is no way those guys are malignant. I had a chance to talk to him 1on1 after my interview, and I thought he is going to be this big shot dude with some ego of sort, but boy was I wrong. He went made me some cappuchino and some popcorn for himself and we chatted for an hour on Michigan football and other stuff. When we got down to talking about his program, I straight up questioned him about the hours and stuff, and he showed me straight-up his CRC spreadsheet (the data he is using to report work-hour compliance to ACGME) logging his residents' workhours this year, and none of them is over 79 at any given service thus far this year. Residents look happy too. Hard for me to imagine malignancy in this setting, and if it does exist, they are doing a tremendous job hiding it.
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UAB, although known nationally and internationally, is arguably the most underrated medical center in the country, and Birmingham is an underrated town. Hey.... it's not Atlanta, but I, personally having grown up in Birmingham, enjoy having 2 extra hours each day not stuck on the freeway.
Let UAB and Birmingham grow on you; you will not regret it.
Carpe
Let UAB and Birmingham grow on you; you will not regret it.
Carpe
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It really almost did. And the program almost sold me out. Coming from an institution that is not too shabby myself, I really thought to myself "what does UAB have to offer me?" and "how good can a hospital system be in Birmingham??"
Damn... I was really impressed, to say the least... REALLY impressed. I am really SERIOUSLY considering putting it top 3 or 4.
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Did Baylor-Houston today. As with some of the other interviews I went to, it's a larger program of 45ish categoricals, but people seems happy there, and residents blend quite well. I'd say 1/2 of the residents have some sort of tie to Texas, while the other 1/2 comes from all over the country, and have a couple IMG's a year. But from what I have heard from the PD, those people have some phenomenal credentials. Lots of call months in intern and 3rd year which can be a pain, but intern year they give you 3 months doing electives, and 2nd year schedule is mad chill. Facilities are great, the Texas Medical Center system obviously is well funded and is constantly building (thanks to the mass pork coming from the Bushes' administrations) and it's large and modern to a point of sickening. Fellowship wise seems like 2/3 do fellowships and 1/3 do primary care, and most fellowships are in the Texas system. Many residents (and most applicants I am with today) all think the Baylor name is an elite name that's going to buy them any fellowship/practice offers they want.
Houston is actually a lot more multicultural than I thought, with lots of things to do. Prices are actually not that bad in Houston, which is surprising to me - I was expecting much higher cost of living at a large city like Houston. They put us in a nice Merriott hotel for free and took us out to some hippy joint for dinner the evening before, really nice of them to do that.
Overall, I liked the program, but not sure if I would put this as a top 3 or 4 kind of program.
Houston is actually a lot more multicultural than I thought, with lots of things to do. Prices are actually not that bad in Houston, which is surprising to me - I was expecting much higher cost of living at a large city like Houston. They put us in a nice Merriott hotel for free and took us out to some hippy joint for dinner the evening before, really nice of them to do that.
Overall, I liked the program, but not sure if I would put this as a top 3 or 4 kind of program.
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Went to UPenn last week which was totally awesome. Seemed to be a very cohesive group of residents/interns who are passionate about medicine in all forms. Was really impressed by their PD, who appears to go to great lengths to keep up-to-the-minute informed on AND responsive to housestaff concerns. Plus there's a big emphasis on post-residency support for the housestaff, whether going onto fellowships, general med careers, or even "alternative" pathways. Looks like a fantastic place for people who want to learn strong clinical skills and have a broad array of interests. Dinner the night beforehand is great too! Only things are that the callrooms suck and the computer system at the main hospital leaves something to be desired (but this is changing).
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some writers on medschooldiary have posted their interview impressions...can anyone corroborate them?
-s.
-s.
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While I agree with the remarks made in the previous post regarding Montefiore, my overall impression was not as favorable.
The day at Montefiore started off with the worst cup of coffee I've had in recent memory. Orientation was held in a room barely large enough for all the applicants to be properly seated. Interviews were performed by calling applicants out of a tiny conference room one by one, in what seemed to me, a very disorganized fashion. The interview itself was 15-20 minutes long. I overheard a couple applicants disgruntled by the nature of their interviews. My interview consisted of me clarifying details on my CV. The tour of the hospital was depressing. The facilities are old, the lighting is terrible, and the computer system seems out of date. No PACS. Lunch was offered as an opportunity to talk to house officers. I personally saw not a single intern during my whole day, including lunch. Overall, I felt interview day was poorly run, and a poor reflection on the program. Then again, it is a no frills kind of program so at least they were being consistent.
On the upside, research opportunities are plentiful. Graduates land great fellowships. Pay is commensurate to the cost of living in NYC. Cheap housing is available and a good meal allowance is offered.
If you are already familiar with hospitals in NYC, then I'm sure you may not even notice many of my negative perceptions. I'm confident that this is a strong program. I'm just not sure if I could spend 80 hours a week in that hospital without becoming majorly depressed.
The day at Montefiore started off with the worst cup of coffee I've had in recent memory. Orientation was held in a room barely large enough for all the applicants to be properly seated. Interviews were performed by calling applicants out of a tiny conference room one by one, in what seemed to me, a very disorganized fashion. The interview itself was 15-20 minutes long. I overheard a couple applicants disgruntled by the nature of their interviews. My interview consisted of me clarifying details on my CV. The tour of the hospital was depressing. The facilities are old, the lighting is terrible, and the computer system seems out of date. No PACS. Lunch was offered as an opportunity to talk to house officers. I personally saw not a single intern during my whole day, including lunch. Overall, I felt interview day was poorly run, and a poor reflection on the program. Then again, it is a no frills kind of program so at least they were being consistent.
On the upside, research opportunities are plentiful. Graduates land great fellowships. Pay is commensurate to the cost of living in NYC. Cheap housing is available and a good meal allowance is offered.
If you are already familiar with hospitals in NYC, then I'm sure you may not even notice many of my negative perceptions. I'm confident that this is a strong program. I'm just not sure if I could spend 80 hours a week in that hospital without becoming majorly depressed.
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I had my Montefiore interview few days ago. I have to completely disagree with bartholomew. I am an Einstein student but I never rotated through Montefiore.
Going to Montefiore this morning I did not expect much. Wow!!! I was blown away.
You do start with breakfast and then go for an orientation to a 227 seat nice auditorum. (bartholomew, are you sure you were at the right place?) There PD and the chairman of Medicine department gave us a talk. Then you go either to tour or for the interview. Mine lasted about 2-3 minutes.
What impressed me:
Strength of the program. I know that faculty here is top notch (World-known in their fields). Cardiology and Nephrology fellowships are the best in the city.
Research
Great Fellowship Match List
Happy residents
The best cafeteria and 3 FREE MEALS a day. SUSHI BAR is there.
Cheap housing
Good pay plus $500 per year for books, palm pilot or stethoscope.
Hospital is not bad looking (I do not know what bartholomew expected? A Hilton hotel?
PACS system will be there in few months
If you want to live in Manhattan, you can. Many residents do so. Takes 30 minutes, depending on location.
It looks like I am going to rank Montefiore above NYU and Sinai.
Going to Montefiore this morning I did not expect much. Wow!!! I was blown away.
You do start with breakfast and then go for an orientation to a 227 seat nice auditorum. (bartholomew, are you sure you were at the right place?) There PD and the chairman of Medicine department gave us a talk. Then you go either to tour or for the interview. Mine lasted about 2-3 minutes.
What impressed me:
Strength of the program. I know that faculty here is top notch (World-known in their fields). Cardiology and Nephrology fellowships are the best in the city.
Research
Great Fellowship Match List
Happy residents
The best cafeteria and 3 FREE MEALS a day. SUSHI BAR is there.
Cheap housing
Good pay plus $500 per year for books, palm pilot or stethoscope.
Hospital is not bad looking (I do not know what bartholomew expected? A Hilton hotel?
PACS system will be there in few months
If you want to live in Manhattan, you can. Many residents do so. Takes 30 minutes, depending on location.
It looks like I am going to rank Montefiore above NYU and Sinai.
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in defense of bartholomew, visiting new york hospitals/programs can be an eye-opening experience for someone who hasn't had any experience with nyc hospitals (i don't know where bartholomew is from). a lot of hospitals outside of new york state do actually look like hiltons, with carpetted floors, private suites and general wards that make you think that you are on the obgyn floor.
nyc programs have also been known to pimp their interviewees-tough interviews for a tough city. nyc is different and not for everyone.
nyc programs have also been known to pimp their interviewees-tough interviews for a tough city. nyc is different and not for everyone.
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okay, i spent time doing a rotation there...so i beg to differ on a few poitns..
the food is okay but after a week, gets pretty old really quickly...
the hospital is very spread out, and is kind of ugly...its not as bad as jacobi but at least they have a new facility coming...there are no work areas...the computers are so f'ing old...trust me, i once tried looking up something on the floors and computer was not able to handle opening the web browser!!!!
i agree great fellowships...but overworked residents...this is based on the several i spoke with when i was on the wards...some loved it, some regret it...
yes its possible bartholemew you were there the day i was, since that day we weren't in the main auditoreum, so that explains the discrepency...one day they changed it to a much smaller room...
at best mediocre ancillary...people on the day of my interview said its getting better though....
look its a no frills, solid program...definately there are nicer hospitals though...but this the training will get you to some good places...but if you are like me, the environment may make you a bit down...
people hands down agree that this would be up there with sinai,nyu if it was in manhattan...buts its in the bronx, which is a good 40 min from downtown...and you must consider this also...
good luck....
the food is okay but after a week, gets pretty old really quickly...
the hospital is very spread out, and is kind of ugly...its not as bad as jacobi but at least they have a new facility coming...there are no work areas...the computers are so f'ing old...trust me, i once tried looking up something on the floors and computer was not able to handle opening the web browser!!!!
i agree great fellowships...but overworked residents...this is based on the several i spoke with when i was on the wards...some loved it, some regret it...
yes its possible bartholemew you were there the day i was, since that day we weren't in the main auditoreum, so that explains the discrepency...one day they changed it to a much smaller room...
at best mediocre ancillary...people on the day of my interview said its getting better though....
look its a no frills, solid program...definately there are nicer hospitals though...but this the training will get you to some good places...but if you are like me, the environment may make you a bit down...
people hands down agree that this would be up there with sinai,nyu if it was in manhattan...buts its in the bronx, which is a good 40 min from downtown...and you must consider this also...
good luck....
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YEah, all good programs in NYC are malignant. That's how it is.
However, Montefiore interns carry on average 5-7 patients at the time. 12 is the limit and almost nobody reaches it.
Compare it to other places where 12 is the way of life.
How about having to come to Columbia at 6am every day? (In other programs you start around 7 or even 7:30).
So Montefiore program may consist of hard work but certainly not harder and maybe even easier than other big programs in NYC.
As far as food goes, which program in NYC gives you 3 meals a day 7 days a week?
None! Only in Montefiore.
And how about that Bellevue hospital at NYU IM program? Monte is Hilton compared to Bellevue. STill NYU is a great program regardless. That's how it is in NYC.
However, Montefiore interns carry on average 5-7 patients at the time. 12 is the limit and almost nobody reaches it.
Compare it to other places where 12 is the way of life.
How about having to come to Columbia at 6am every day? (In other programs you start around 7 or even 7:30).
So Montefiore program may consist of hard work but certainly not harder and maybe even easier than other big programs in NYC.
As far as food goes, which program in NYC gives you 3 meals a day 7 days a week?
None! Only in Montefiore.
And how about that Bellevue hospital at NYU IM program? Monte is Hilton compared to Bellevue. STill NYU is a great program regardless. That's how it is in NYC.
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Do not forget the economics. Yeah you said Manhattan...OK, I agree Manhattan is cooler place to live.
However, I did my 3rd year OB/GYN at Beth Israel. In 6 weeks I spent $650 for food only. It was not fancy food either (Dinner, Chinese). You cannot have a meal in Manhattan bellow $7. Well, if you multiply 7 by 6 days a week...That's $42 per meal times 3 meals that's $126. Well, that's $500 a month or $6000 per year.
You can find a small studio for $1500 a month.
Your salary after taxes will come to maybe $2700 a month. So for everything else you will have $700 left. In other words, you will be broke.
In that case I do not mind getting to manhattan in 30 minutes if that means I will have $2000 more than you in my pocket each and every month.
However, I did my 3rd year OB/GYN at Beth Israel. In 6 weeks I spent $650 for food only. It was not fancy food either (Dinner, Chinese). You cannot have a meal in Manhattan bellow $7. Well, if you multiply 7 by 6 days a week...That's $42 per meal times 3 meals that's $126. Well, that's $500 a month or $6000 per year.
You can find a small studio for $1500 a month.
Your salary after taxes will come to maybe $2700 a month. So for everything else you will have $700 left. In other words, you will be broke.
In that case I do not mind getting to manhattan in 30 minutes if that means I will have $2000 more than you in my pocket each and every month.
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???
I am not sure the economics as you outlined is totally correct. NYU's salary for PGY1 is more than 47k per year (with 2-3k up per PGY). How does that work out to 2700 a month? And also dont forget you can hit up some mad free lunches and stuff in the hospital at conferences, and breakfast joints at home (like milk and cereal) dont cost 7 bucks per meal. I would imagine meal cost closer to 8-9 bucks a day (if you order out some cheap joint every night, and dont do any cooking), not 21.
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let's say $49,000per year x 28% tax=13270 in tax.
So it is 35730 after tax.
35730/26paychecks a year=$1374 every 15 days or $2748 per month
NYU free food is lunch 2 times per week (Monday and Friday).
I used to live in Brooklyn, the Bronx and Manhattan and Manhattan prices are at least 40% higher for exactly the same supermarket product.
So it is 35730 after tax.
35730/26paychecks a year=$1374 every 15 days or $2748 per month
NYU free food is lunch 2 times per week (Monday and Friday).
I used to live in Brooklyn, the Bronx and Manhattan and Manhattan prices are at least 40% higher for exactly the same supermarket product.
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It looks like we've established that you will be poor living in Manhattan on a resident's salary and that Montefiore offers a solid, no-frills IM program with above-average fellowship placement. Anyway I'll add my 2 cents on some programs I've recently visited, hopefully this will lead to more people posting about their experiences and impressions on interviews:
BU: Large program, residents work harder than the usual hard-working IM residents but seem like a fun group, suprisingly happy. High level of autonomy with support from attendings when needed - very "resident-driven" patient care. Tremendous diversity of patients and pathology. Hospitals were nice than I expected, considering that BMC is the famed city hospital of Boston. 75% go on to fellowships, placement is excellent- people go to top places all around the country. Lots of primary care opportunities during training. A few negatives: Boston is expensive, but the salary and benefits are the best among city programs (there is a strong residents union). Patient load is high and interns admit until 11 PM on long call days. Overall, you will be incredibly well-trained here and can do whatever you'd like when finished. Overall grade:B+/ A-.
Tufts/NEMC: mid-sized program, no prelim interns. Seems to have a strong emphasis on subspecialty training - hospital floors are broken down by organ system and attendings on each floor are specialists in the area. The hospital is very nice and a manageable size. Much less private than I expected, attendings are all based in the hosptal and very accessible. Definately more intimate than other Boston programs, good fellowship placement, less oriented towards training generalists. I liked the program but wasn't grabbed by it. Overall grade: B.
Brown: Very friendly and approachable residents and faculty. The place has a nice intimacy, though it's pretty large program. Both general medicine and sub-specialty training (esp. cards and ID/HIV) seem very strong here. Lots of opportunities for international travel electives. More of a mix of private and service patients than BU and Tufts, but tons of service patients at Rhode Island Hospital. Rotate 1 month through the VA. Great patient diversity. Morning report run by chief residents was very impressive. Program directors were very involved in responding to resident concerns and improving the program. Providence is a nice, livable small New England city but is dreary in the winter. I really liked the program and think it's underrated. Overall Grade A-.
BU: Large program, residents work harder than the usual hard-working IM residents but seem like a fun group, suprisingly happy. High level of autonomy with support from attendings when needed - very "resident-driven" patient care. Tremendous diversity of patients and pathology. Hospitals were nice than I expected, considering that BMC is the famed city hospital of Boston. 75% go on to fellowships, placement is excellent- people go to top places all around the country. Lots of primary care opportunities during training. A few negatives: Boston is expensive, but the salary and benefits are the best among city programs (there is a strong residents union). Patient load is high and interns admit until 11 PM on long call days. Overall, you will be incredibly well-trained here and can do whatever you'd like when finished. Overall grade:B+/ A-.
Tufts/NEMC: mid-sized program, no prelim interns. Seems to have a strong emphasis on subspecialty training - hospital floors are broken down by organ system and attendings on each floor are specialists in the area. The hospital is very nice and a manageable size. Much less private than I expected, attendings are all based in the hosptal and very accessible. Definately more intimate than other Boston programs, good fellowship placement, less oriented towards training generalists. I liked the program but wasn't grabbed by it. Overall grade: B.
Brown: Very friendly and approachable residents and faculty. The place has a nice intimacy, though it's pretty large program. Both general medicine and sub-specialty training (esp. cards and ID/HIV) seem very strong here. Lots of opportunities for international travel electives. More of a mix of private and service patients than BU and Tufts, but tons of service patients at Rhode Island Hospital. Rotate 1 month through the VA. Great patient diversity. Morning report run by chief residents was very impressive. Program directors were very involved in responding to resident concerns and improving the program. Providence is a nice, livable small New England city but is dreary in the winter. I really liked the program and think it's underrated. Overall Grade A-.
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Just to correct NYU salary:
PGY-1 is 47K not 49K
PGY-1 47,457
PGY-2 49360
PGY-3 53430
Also Manhattan prices (e.g. grocery) are not only 40% higher. After I wrote that I was actually thinking about it and prices are actually 100% to even 300% higher.
For example:
Tomatoes Pathmark the Bronx 99cents per lb
Tomatoes Food Emporium Manhattan $2.5
Apples: Pathmark, the Bronx 66 cents per lb
Apples Food Emporium Manhattan $2.20 per lb
Post Cerieal 2.49 at Pathmark, the Bronx
Post Cereal the same product 5.49 at Food Emporium in Manhattan.
PGY-1 is 47K not 49K
PGY-1 47,457
PGY-2 49360
PGY-3 53430
Also Manhattan prices (e.g. grocery) are not only 40% higher. After I wrote that I was actually thinking about it and prices are actually 100% to even 300% higher.
For example:
Tomatoes Pathmark the Bronx 99cents per lb
Tomatoes Food Emporium Manhattan $2.5
Apples: Pathmark, the Bronx 66 cents per lb
Apples Food Emporium Manhattan $2.20 per lb
Post Cerieal 2.49 at Pathmark, the Bronx
Post Cereal the same product 5.49 at Food Emporium in Manhattan.
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Jeez, if you REALLY want to live in Manhattan, why don't you just shop in Brooklyn then? It doesn't take THAT long on the subway...how much for a metrocard these days? The discussion about Montefior vs. NYU/Columbia is interesting. Would the Columbia/NYU name make fellowship applications easier, open more doors, etc. I always thought that was the advantage of going to a "name" program, but I don't know much about IM.
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I visited both NYU and Columbia last week, and all I have to say is go with your gut feelings rather than trusting your well-being for the next 3 years on some "name" factor. Intuitively, one might say Columbia has better prestige and name, but the comparison really ends there - the program is just not my style. It's hard for me to imagine how I can deal with the pressure and the aura of arrogance (most people there are ivy-med school graduates) of being a Columbia intern. Also I am not a spanish speaker which makes things kind of difficult at CPMC at Washington Heights, the elevator at which mildy resembles Miami airport. There may possibly be some slight differences in fellowship placement between the two programs, but I couldn't have. My visit to NYU was much better. People are lots more down to earth and fun to talk to. Bellvue is a monster, no doubt, but I think I can deal with the envirnoment there better than I can at CPMC. Hey, I used to be a rankings-slave so I know exactly how it is for decision like this, but this time I am really sick and tired of playing the "name game" and rather trust my own gut - given there are other good programs on my interview list, I am inclined to rank NYU ahead of Columbia.
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wow...with regards to the nyc area schools, i feel the same exact way after visiting columbia, cornell, nyu and mount sinai. the people at mount sinai are all so happy and down-to-earth, and i would really enjoy working with that crew. nyu very similar. i'm sure columbia and cornell residents are the same, but they were clearly operating at a different intensity, one which i can do without. tough to describe, but renovar probably put it best. i'm at the point in my life where i can do without the unnecessary competitiveness and my name-seeking behavior is starting to fade. not saying that sinai or nyu residents are any less intense, but hey, at the end of the day (or 3 yrs), residents get into the fellowships they want, and mostly at their own institutions anyway. since all four nyc institutions are fine academic centers and are well-recognized nationally, one would not lose out if they chose any one of the four...i am also inclined on ranking sinai and nyu above columbia, maybe cornell...
T
thad8
my take on nyc hostpials, having interviewed at all 5 major nyc hospitals last yr:
i agree with the above threads in that mt. sinai seemed a "happier place to be". I unfortunately, didn't really like nyu that much. bellevue is a zoo, as everybody knows, and it's always a bad sign when you visit there and residents tell you not to go there. a few of my friends from college went there for med school, and recommended to go elsewhere for medicine. from what i understand, it has improved however. the biggest draws about mt sinai and nyu that i didn't like were where their residents matched. if they didn't match at their own program, they ended up matching at community programs in long island, bronx, etc, with a few exceptions. basically, their fellowship match list is not as impressive as you would think. i thought the residents at both programs, were the coolest in nyc however. i would have enjoyed working with residents in either program. a much more laidback environement, surely.
i loved cornell, but the biggest negative of course, was the large amount of private patients, and sometimes questionable autonomy. overall, it's a great program. everybody, is really happy there, and the housing and location in nyc are arguably impossible to beat. columbia was a little malignant, but in my opinion, i thought it offered the best training and best fellowship placement in nyc. overally, it's a great program.
albert einstein, while a great medical school, is not that great of an internal medicine training program. the program is huge, it's in the bronx, mediocre fellowship placement (the best place they match is at einstein, with a few exceptions) and i've had many faculty from there tell me it's not a great program (i remember my interviewer from yale last yr tell me that he didn't think the training was very good at einstein, and he went to med school there). additionally, ancillary services suck there (unfortunately, this appears to be pervasive in nyc programs, but monte if unusually poor even by nyc standards). i have many friends currently there for various residencies, and they always complain about poor ancillary services - they have to do there own blood draws, transport there own pts, etc.
my ranking of nyc hospitals for medicine based on fellowship placement and quality of training:
1) columbia
2) cornell
3) mt. sinai and nyu are tied
4) einstein
my ranking of nyc hospitals for medicine based on where you would be happiest and have the best time (of course, this is very subjective):
1) mt. sinai
2) cornell
3) columbia
4) nyu
5) einstein
good luck to all!
i agree with the above threads in that mt. sinai seemed a "happier place to be". I unfortunately, didn't really like nyu that much. bellevue is a zoo, as everybody knows, and it's always a bad sign when you visit there and residents tell you not to go there. a few of my friends from college went there for med school, and recommended to go elsewhere for medicine. from what i understand, it has improved however. the biggest draws about mt sinai and nyu that i didn't like were where their residents matched. if they didn't match at their own program, they ended up matching at community programs in long island, bronx, etc, with a few exceptions. basically, their fellowship match list is not as impressive as you would think. i thought the residents at both programs, were the coolest in nyc however. i would have enjoyed working with residents in either program. a much more laidback environement, surely.
i loved cornell, but the biggest negative of course, was the large amount of private patients, and sometimes questionable autonomy. overall, it's a great program. everybody, is really happy there, and the housing and location in nyc are arguably impossible to beat. columbia was a little malignant, but in my opinion, i thought it offered the best training and best fellowship placement in nyc. overally, it's a great program.
albert einstein, while a great medical school, is not that great of an internal medicine training program. the program is huge, it's in the bronx, mediocre fellowship placement (the best place they match is at einstein, with a few exceptions) and i've had many faculty from there tell me it's not a great program (i remember my interviewer from yale last yr tell me that he didn't think the training was very good at einstein, and he went to med school there). additionally, ancillary services suck there (unfortunately, this appears to be pervasive in nyc programs, but monte if unusually poor even by nyc standards). i have many friends currently there for various residencies, and they always complain about poor ancillary services - they have to do there own blood draws, transport there own pts, etc.
my ranking of nyc hospitals for medicine based on fellowship placement and quality of training:
1) columbia
2) cornell
3) mt. sinai and nyu are tied
4) einstein
my ranking of nyc hospitals for medicine based on where you would be happiest and have the best time (of course, this is very subjective):
1) mt. sinai
2) cornell
3) columbia
4) nyu
5) einstein
good luck to all!
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Montefiore Felowship Matches:
I will do only the most popular:
Cards:
Cleveland Clinic
Albert Einstein
Mt. Sinai
NEMC/Tufts
GI:
Hopkins
Columbia
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
University of Miami
Memorial Sloan Kettering
University of Arizona
UMDNJ
Renal:
MAss General
UCSF
Montefiore
University of Pensylv.
Boston University Medical Center
Hem/Onc:
Memorial Sloan Kettering
Columbia
Mt. Sinai
Stanford
NYU
Montefiore
UMDNJ-RWJ
Allergy and Immunology:
Columbia
I will do only the most popular:
Cards:
Cleveland Clinic
Albert Einstein
Mt. Sinai
NEMC/Tufts
GI:
Hopkins
Columbia
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
University of Miami
Memorial Sloan Kettering
University of Arizona
UMDNJ
Renal:
MAss General
UCSF
Montefiore
University of Pensylv.
Boston University Medical Center
Hem/Onc:
Memorial Sloan Kettering
Columbia
Mt. Sinai
Stanford
NYU
Montefiore
UMDNJ-RWJ
Allergy and Immunology:
Columbia
T
thad8
well, you guys have the latest info, having just interviewed there. i remember looking at the list last yr, and not being that impressed. i think the list that rajvosa printed was probably over a 5 yr span or something. you really need to look at the yr to yr list, and see where everybody else matches too. if a lot of people match in community programs or don't match at all, that says something about the program. also, i'm interested in cards, so i guess i'm a little biased and usually just look at that. and in my opinion, i think the cards matches aren't that great. who wants to be in cleveland? yes, i know cleveland clinic is ranked #1 for cards, but i still think cleveland isn't that great, sorry. and i wasn't that impressed with the others on the cards list either, compared to other programs.
i'll admit, the other matches on the list that rajvosa typed out did look pretty good, but you really have to look at the yr to yr trends, where everybody ends up (how many end up in community programs), how many don't match, etc. I always hated when programs give you just a list saying, "here's where our residents ended up the last 5 yrs". even the worst programs, occasionally match people into stanford, duke, etc. obviously, they present the data to make them look as good as possible. in the end, if you're good you're good, it shouldn't matter that much where you train, although no question it gives you a leg up in the competetion. the best programs provide the yr to yr data. if the list that rajvosa printed out was just for last yr, that would rival just about any program in the country. plus, things can change very quickly from yr to yr e.g. if a dept chair leaves, or there is a new division chairman, etc. the best info is from the last 2 yrs.
rajvosa: i didn't mean to imply that monte wasn't a good hospital, because it certainly is, and i think the med school is great. so sorry, if i offended you. if you end up at monte, i think you will be very well trained, and being in nyc is a lot of fun. best of luck to you.
i guess my point is, overall, with the exception of cornell and columbia, i was dissapointed last yr in the quality of the training programs in nyc (in relation to the quality of their med schools). i think most people " in the know", would agree with this. nevertheless, being in nyc is the bomb, and your career isn't everything. most students from mt. sinai, einstein, and nyu have their pick from top 10 internal med programs - i just wouldn't put their internal medicine programs on the same level as the med school.
once again, good luck to all. i'm bored in the hospital now, and this is as good a way to pass time until i get my next page.
yes, i know cleveland clinic is ranked #1 for cards, but i still think cleveland isn't that great, sorry. and i wasn't that impressed with the others on the cards list either, compared to other programs.i'll admit, the other matches on the list that rajvosa typed out did look pretty good, but you really have to look at the yr to yr trends, where everybody ends up (how many end up in community programs), how many don't match, etc. I always hated when programs give you just a list saying, "here's where our residents ended up the last 5 yrs". even the worst programs, occasionally match people into stanford, duke, etc. obviously, they present the data to make them look as good as possible. in the end, if you're good you're good, it shouldn't matter that much where you train, although no question it gives you a leg up in the competetion. the best programs provide the yr to yr data. if the list that rajvosa printed out was just for last yr, that would rival just about any program in the country. plus, things can change very quickly from yr to yr e.g. if a dept chair leaves, or there is a new division chairman, etc. the best info is from the last 2 yrs.
rajvosa: i didn't mean to imply that monte wasn't a good hospital, because it certainly is, and i think the med school is great. so sorry, if i offended you. if you end up at monte, i think you will be very well trained, and being in nyc is a lot of fun. best of luck to you.
i guess my point is, overall, with the exception of cornell and columbia, i was dissapointed last yr in the quality of the training programs in nyc (in relation to the quality of their med schools). i think most people " in the know", would agree with this. nevertheless, being in nyc is the bomb, and your career isn't everything. most students from mt. sinai, einstein, and nyu have their pick from top 10 internal med programs - i just wouldn't put their internal medicine programs on the same level as the med school.
once again, good luck to all. i'm bored in the hospital now, and this is as good a way to pass time until i get my next page.
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if howard dean obtains the democratic nomination it will only ensure a Bush victory. hd is full o' bull****...have you ever listened to his speeches?
?no safer today than the day the planes struck the World Trade Center.? -howard dean....
wow...
?no safer today than the day the planes struck the World Trade Center.? -howard dean....
wow...
T
thad8
rajvosa: i guess everything is all relative. if you want to maintain that monte's cards program is good, that's fine. in my opinion, it's not. (sorry for the rest of you, i know this sounds arrogant, but i think rajvosa asked for it)
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actually, i rotated in cards there for a few weeks last year...i think the cardiology program at albert einstein is very strong...the faculty are amazing...there is a plethora of pathology in the bronx...and there is a significant amount of research...the fellows are all pretty solid...many coming from inside the institution, some from cornell and sinai...the graduates were getting excellent offers....EP is especially amazing...they are involved in some very cutting edge things...they rock the cardiology boards every year....
personally i wasn't interested in cards but i felt the program was very good....furthermore I had a friend at UT SW who said that the guys there felt that Albert Einstein has a very strong cards program...
personally i wasn't interested in cards but i felt the program was very good....furthermore I had a friend at UT SW who said that the guys there felt that Albert Einstein has a very strong cards program...
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Maybe we should start a separate thread for the pros and cons on Montefiore's cardiology fellowship program....
Hey, anybody else but me going on interviews and have any opinions on places they've visited??
Hey, anybody else but me going on interviews and have any opinions on places they've visited??
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dude rajman,
i mean no disrespect, but enough of this monte jacobi einstein #@%@^...by all means, stay at monte!
no clear-thinking non-einstein individual who has actually seen monte and has a choice of going to one of the other nyc manhattan places will ever want to go there. yes, decent program and very friendly residents, but crappy old hospital and surroundings. i'm sure the new jacobi bldg may make it a more desirable place to work in, but all-in-all, a no-frills place.
'nuf said.
i mean no disrespect, but enough of this monte jacobi einstein #@%@^...by all means, stay at monte!
no clear-thinking non-einstein individual who has actually seen monte and has a choice of going to one of the other nyc manhattan places will ever want to go there. yes, decent program and very friendly residents, but crappy old hospital and surroundings. i'm sure the new jacobi bldg may make it a more desirable place to work in, but all-in-all, a no-frills place.
'nuf said.
Regarding Monte, it was quite a dissapointment. They had their x-mas party the night before, but nevertheless, out of the 4-5 residents I spoke to, none were all that happy. There was no exposure to any of their conferences. Ancillary services sound equivalently bad to the city hospitals. The one ward I saw was dreary, and the PCs were sparse (no internet access on wards either). The PACS has been "about to be installed" for years. Faculty have been leaving. My impression is that their fellowship placement is getting progressivley worse. Out of ~50 residents/yr, sure, a few will get something good at another institution, but they seem like exceptions.
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I have visited the following institutions and would be willing to offer any of you my impressions of any of them:
U Pitt, GT, GW, Penn State, U Rochester, Brown, Thomas Jefferson, Bayview, U Maryland, RWJ, Brown.
I go to Wash U in January, but I also know a little about their program too.
Of the programs that I was invited to interview at, I plan to rank all of them except for GT, U Pitt, and Penn State.
I would fill out the form for scutwork.com for all of them, but I've been feeling kind of lazy lately and the scutwork form is tedious. My impression is that everyone will have different gut feelings about a school, and a lot of the times, your gut feeling really can't be attributed to anything more specific then the people that you happened to interact with during your interview day (which is different people every day).
U Pitt, GT, GW, Penn State, U Rochester, Brown, Thomas Jefferson, Bayview, U Maryland, RWJ, Brown.
I go to Wash U in January, but I also know a little about their program too.
Of the programs that I was invited to interview at, I plan to rank all of them except for GT, U Pitt, and Penn State.
I would fill out the form for scutwork.com for all of them, but I've been feeling kind of lazy lately and the scutwork form is tedious. My impression is that everyone will have different gut feelings about a school, and a lot of the times, your gut feeling really can't be attributed to anything more specific then the people that you happened to interact with during your interview day (which is different people every day).
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I do not want to beat this point to death but every program in NYC has some bad things.
For example, you consider Columbia number 1 program in NYC, and probably top 10 in the US.
Columbia happens to be in a very bad area of Manhattan. Its location is as if it was not in Manhattan (almost in the Bronx).
Moreover, does this intern at Columbia sound like a happy intern?
MBK2003
Member
As a Columbia IM intern I can tell you that I got out earlier than 6pm once, and most days left later than 7:30 pm. On call days (admit until 10pm), I was lucky to leave the hospital by 2am, and my last month on wards I was averaging 100-105 hours per week. Columbia has exceptional teaching and the patients are usually great (although frequently sicker than most). However, the system here is more than inefficient, it seems to be purposefully set up so that it interferes your ability to provide comprehensive patient care and to actually have time to learn. As an IM intern at Columbia, prepare to
1) Fill out a requisition for the next days labs on each and every one of your patients ("why would we need Qam lab orders?")
2) Stamp and complete a requisition for each and every test your order, and if you happen to put it on the wrong color slip of paper, your patient will be sent back to the floor without getting the test and without anyone every notifying you
3) have your orders taken off the chart 8-12 hours after your wrote them, even if you notified the nurse 2 times (the first when you wrote the order and second when you noticed 6 hours later that the Mr. X still hasn't received his IV Lasix)
4) Wait until 1 pm for AM "stat" labs to show up in the computer, because I'm sure Mrs. Y (on a heparin drip) doesn't mind having a PTT >180 seconds since 6am this morning.
5) transport your patients yourself to tests that they really need because pt transport requires at least 2 hours notice
6) run to at least 2 other nursing stations to find an EKG that actually works
7) and my favorite, keep a patient in the hospital for an extra week awaiting an abdominal MRI because Radiology is "certain that the MRI fellow will be available tomorrow to set up the scan" x 5 days
Since I came from a hospital system that was orders of magnitude more efficient than Columbia I might be jaded, but in general the "system" here is one that actively interferes with my ability to provide good care to my patients. I am just glad that I only have to spend PGY-1 in this place.
I am just glad that I only have to spend PGY-1 in this place.
I am just glad that I only have to spend PGY-1 in this place.
I am just glad that I only have to spend PGY-1 in this place.
I copied his last statement 3x. This is from the top IM residency program.
Now another former Columbia Intern adds his 2 cents:
ERMudPhud
Senior Member
Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Mountain Time
Posts: 159
Nice to see things haven't changed a bit since I was a student at Columbia. I once kept a patient in house for five days on heparin waiting for the nucmed camera to be fixed so we could get a V/Q scan. I worked at about 6 or 7 different NYC hospitals as a student or intern and thought all the inefficiencies were just the way things were at academic hospitals. It was quite a surprise to leave NY and discover that I no longer had to fill out forms for everything, transport my own patients, draw my own bloods, start my own IV's, plant my own PPD's, etc...
So you can never judge a place by just spending few hours on the interview day, especially if you did not like the taste of your coffee. For a real look you need to spend at least 1 day on the floors or even better do a rotation there.
I see people are judging Montefiore by the quality of its coffee, the size of the rooms where candidates were put, the "old building", scut work, the color of folders they received, the rain that just happened to be in the Bronx, but I guess not in MANHATTAN. But all those deficiencies can be said about other NYC programs, even the top ones like Columbia. The old building analogy can be applied to Bellevue. Lowest pay,instability of the program and financial insecurities and losses can be applied to Sinai. Scut work at NYU/Bellevue. Lack of housing at Columbia, NYU, Sinai. Malignancy at Columbia (Only at Columbia you preround at 6AM...Surgery anyone?) Private attendings driven medicine at Cornell. Horrible location at Columbia. No FREE food 7 days per week in any of these but Montefiore. All hopitals loose money but only Montefiore is in the black, making healthy profit of 50 million per year(See the New York Times article from last year). No program can be perfect.
Columbia still uses paper-order system. Like in 18th century. That's how it is in NYC. Are you telling me that there is no scut work in NYU/Sinai/Columbia and Cornell? You will be very surprised once you are on the floor but then it will be too late and you will not be able to say like the Columbia intern above:
"I am just glad that I only have to spend PGY-1 in this place."
Good luck to everybody wherever they go.
As far as my rank list goes:
1. Monte
2. Sinai
3. NYU
For example, you consider Columbia number 1 program in NYC, and probably top 10 in the US.
Columbia happens to be in a very bad area of Manhattan. Its location is as if it was not in Manhattan (almost in the Bronx).
Moreover, does this intern at Columbia sound like a happy intern?
MBK2003
Member
As a Columbia IM intern I can tell you that I got out earlier than 6pm once, and most days left later than 7:30 pm. On call days (admit until 10pm), I was lucky to leave the hospital by 2am, and my last month on wards I was averaging 100-105 hours per week. Columbia has exceptional teaching and the patients are usually great (although frequently sicker than most). However, the system here is more than inefficient, it seems to be purposefully set up so that it interferes your ability to provide comprehensive patient care and to actually have time to learn. As an IM intern at Columbia, prepare to
1) Fill out a requisition for the next days labs on each and every one of your patients ("why would we need Qam lab orders?")
2) Stamp and complete a requisition for each and every test your order, and if you happen to put it on the wrong color slip of paper, your patient will be sent back to the floor without getting the test and without anyone every notifying you
3) have your orders taken off the chart 8-12 hours after your wrote them, even if you notified the nurse 2 times (the first when you wrote the order and second when you noticed 6 hours later that the Mr. X still hasn't received his IV Lasix)
4) Wait until 1 pm for AM "stat" labs to show up in the computer, because I'm sure Mrs. Y (on a heparin drip) doesn't mind having a PTT >180 seconds since 6am this morning.
5) transport your patients yourself to tests that they really need because pt transport requires at least 2 hours notice
6) run to at least 2 other nursing stations to find an EKG that actually works
7) and my favorite, keep a patient in the hospital for an extra week awaiting an abdominal MRI because Radiology is "certain that the MRI fellow will be available tomorrow to set up the scan" x 5 days
Since I came from a hospital system that was orders of magnitude more efficient than Columbia I might be jaded, but in general the "system" here is one that actively interferes with my ability to provide good care to my patients. I am just glad that I only have to spend PGY-1 in this place.
I am just glad that I only have to spend PGY-1 in this place.
I am just glad that I only have to spend PGY-1 in this place.
I am just glad that I only have to spend PGY-1 in this place.
I copied his last statement 3x. This is from the top IM residency program.
Now another former Columbia Intern adds his 2 cents:
ERMudPhud
Senior Member
Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Mountain Time
Posts: 159
Nice to see things haven't changed a bit since I was a student at Columbia. I once kept a patient in house for five days on heparin waiting for the nucmed camera to be fixed so we could get a V/Q scan. I worked at about 6 or 7 different NYC hospitals as a student or intern and thought all the inefficiencies were just the way things were at academic hospitals. It was quite a surprise to leave NY and discover that I no longer had to fill out forms for everything, transport my own patients, draw my own bloods, start my own IV's, plant my own PPD's, etc...
So you can never judge a place by just spending few hours on the interview day, especially if you did not like the taste of your coffee. For a real look you need to spend at least 1 day on the floors or even better do a rotation there.
I see people are judging Montefiore by the quality of its coffee, the size of the rooms where candidates were put, the "old building", scut work, the color of folders they received, the rain that just happened to be in the Bronx, but I guess not in MANHATTAN. But all those deficiencies can be said about other NYC programs, even the top ones like Columbia. The old building analogy can be applied to Bellevue. Lowest pay,instability of the program and financial insecurities and losses can be applied to Sinai. Scut work at NYU/Bellevue. Lack of housing at Columbia, NYU, Sinai. Malignancy at Columbia (Only at Columbia you preround at 6AM...Surgery anyone?) Private attendings driven medicine at Cornell. Horrible location at Columbia. No FREE food 7 days per week in any of these but Montefiore. All hopitals loose money but only Montefiore is in the black, making healthy profit of 50 million per year(See the New York Times article from last year). No program can be perfect.
Columbia still uses paper-order system. Like in 18th century. That's how it is in NYC. Are you telling me that there is no scut work in NYU/Sinai/Columbia and Cornell? You will be very surprised once you are on the floor but then it will be too late and you will not be able to say like the Columbia intern above:
"I am just glad that I only have to spend PGY-1 in this place."
Good luck to everybody wherever they go.
As far as my rank list goes:
1. Monte
2. Sinai
3. NYU
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