So my husband is a non-traditional, post-bacc pre-med candidate who has looked good enough on paper to receive a couple of interviews at DO schools (IS and OOS), however has been rejected or put on the waitlist, even though his stats are higher than some individuals admitted?? This only leads me to believe that it had something to do with his personality or demeanor?? The guy is pretty likeable and has 10+ years of corporate leadership experience, which means he's a "people person", plus he's easy on the eyes, (IMO) but kidding aside, he does possess the attributes which would result in positive response from an interviewing committee, and he is passionate about the field, and most importantly passionate about the Osteopathic philosophy, which he is able to effectively communicate. He is not afraid of the work, having put 12+ hours a day, 6 days a week in his corporate role, and continued to work fulltime while finishing his pre-med pre-reqs and studying for the MCAT. So, in a nutshell, does anyone know what factors deter or "turn off" the committee from accepting certain individuals after they have interviewed? Thank you 🙂
Interview invitations then rejections, what went wrong?
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It's pretty tough to determine what went wrong without having been there. I'd suggest he call the schools that rejected or wait listed him and ask them if they could give him some advice for strengthening his application or determining what went wrong with the interview; this will be the most beneficial feedback for him.
How late did he apply? Sometimes, when people interview later in the season, their chances are much lower because half (or more) of the class has already been filled. Applying really early (in June) helps.
The only other possibility I can think of is not convincing them that he really wants to do medicine. I think this is the largest obstacle for non-trads with a career change. Has he had the opportunity to get any clinical experience (ie- shadowing, working in hospital, volunteer, etc)? I know you mentioned he continued with his corporate job- perhaps the committees want to be sure that he's had at least some exposure to medicine to see "what its like" and be absolutely sure that's the path he wants to take. I know for me, it was enormously helpful to have had experience in the medical field to pull from when answering questions.
Hope that helps at least a bit!
How late did he apply? Sometimes, when people interview later in the season, their chances are much lower because half (or more) of the class has already been filled. Applying really early (in June) helps.
The only other possibility I can think of is not convincing them that he really wants to do medicine. I think this is the largest obstacle for non-trads with a career change. Has he had the opportunity to get any clinical experience (ie- shadowing, working in hospital, volunteer, etc)? I know you mentioned he continued with his corporate job- perhaps the committees want to be sure that he's had at least some exposure to medicine to see "what its like" and be absolutely sure that's the path he wants to take. I know for me, it was enormously helpful to have had experience in the medical field to pull from when answering questions.
Hope that helps at least a bit!
Thank you so much Help2!! Yes, he was late in the cycle; submitted his primary in Dec and Secondary like in Feb 2012, he actually wasn't planning to apply until the 2013 mat cycle but he gave it a shot. He got interviews like right away, like the day AACOMAS released them, which we thought was a good sign 🙁 I should have added that he was an assistant athletic trainer (for a semi-pro hockey team) while in college as part of his "clinicals" but that was like in 99', and had every intention to pursue medicine right out, but the mighty dollar he was offered, while conducting a seminar in health/fitness, took precedence, and now that he has climbed the corporate ladder as far as he could, he really wanted to pursue what matters and not money. I would have thought the committee could see his sincere desire in the field, by choosing to give up a "cushy" career and the six figure income, to start over from the beginning. But as you said, there are other factors that swayed their decission that I am sure he will not know until he talks to the source. Your advice has been worth the weight in gold, thanks Help2
That pretty much killed his chances. If he applied in August he would have been accepted.
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Apply June 1st. All the application material pretty much carries over, but he is now a 'reapplicant', which is a negative. He should apply june 1...
Also, why are you posting and not him?
DO2BWife, your husband should send in a letter of intent "LOI" to all the schools he's waitlisted at and do it immediately. He should send 1/mo (maybe 3wks) until he is rejected or accepted, or July 1st rolls around. Each letter should be different, but should express why he should be moved to the acceptance list.
Also, why are you posting and not him?
DO2BWife, your husband should send in a letter of intent "LOI" to all the schools he's waitlisted at and do it immediately. He should send 1/mo (maybe 3wks) until he is rejected or accepted, or July 1st rolls around. Each letter should be different, but should express why he should be moved to the acceptance list.
Great advice on the LOI, didn't even know that was an option, or granted a possible positive outcome. I am positing instead of him because he is more rational, methodical and patient than I am, and has thicker skin than me, so instead of him trolling the SDN for the answer as to why we got dumped like I am,
, he is busy focusing his efforts on Plan B, C, D through Z. Plus I work full time, I have too much time on my hands, 
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Just because someone has "good stats" doesn't mean they are automatically admitted to med school. This is a grueling process for a reason. 99/100 (made up statistic) you aren't going to decide overnight to apply to med school and get in. I know he has prepared by taking the pre-reqs, studied and did well? on the MCAT, but he should have waited until the next cycle.
Tell him to browse SDN more and he will very easily have learned that applying June 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> December 1
Also, if his stats are so good, he would more than likely have a shot at the school of his choice had he applied the first day of the cycle versus praying to get accepted to any school at this point.
Something to chew on 👍
Tell him to browse SDN more and he will very easily have learned that applying June 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> December 1
Also, if his stats are so good, he would more than likely have a shot at the school of his choice had he applied the first day of the cycle versus praying to get accepted to any school at this point.
Something to chew on 👍
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Interview candidates can be rejected for a lot of reasons:
- being arrogant
- not being able to think on their feet
- babbling
- not directly answering the question
- in a panel interview, not paying attention to the other candidates while they're talking
- bombing a question
- not understanding what they're getting into
- showing too much interest in non-clinical things as a career (like hospital administration)
- showing too much greed (like asking about derm or cosmetic surgery residencies)
- immaturity
- less than stellar performance at the post-bac level
- showing insufficient dedication to medicine as a career
- and something that's non-interview related: a red flag in a letter of recommendation or file.
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Those are all possible, and likely would be moot overall if he had a gagillion interviews...
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OUCH....but nonetheless thanks for the feedback!!
I'm going to go with your reasoning, at least makes ME feel better 😉 Thanks MT Headed!!
You didn't really answer the question about exposure to the medical field via volunteering or shadowing. Has he had any *RECENT* (last few years) exposure like shadowing a physician for 20+ hours, working at a clinic stocking supplies and taking vital signs, or even general community service like working at a food kitchen? Typical applicants have around 150 hours of self-less service in these arenas (some more, some less).. but generally the accepted value is 1.5 years or 150 hours.
Giving up one's six figure job is NOT sacrifice enough to show you're dedicated to medicine. Because after all the training, he will probably be making as much or more money than he was at his "cushy" job depending on his specialty. AdComs are looking for people who are passionate about MEDICINE and have a sincere interest in helping others and taking care of people. Has your husband demonstrated this? Based on what you said, he has not, and he needs to get out in the field and get some experience.
What would your husband say when the interviewers ask him, so what made you decide to pursue medicine? Typical applicants would answer something related to their volunteer experience, or how being in the environment changed their perspective and they felt that it was a career worth pursuing. What would your husband say?
This is based off of your responses thus far, so it'll be different if he has indeed had recent experiences that you have not posted here yet. Oh, and being complete in February killed this cycle. Reapply June 1st.
Giving up one's six figure job is NOT sacrifice enough to show you're dedicated to medicine. Because after all the training, he will probably be making as much or more money than he was at his "cushy" job depending on his specialty. AdComs are looking for people who are passionate about MEDICINE and have a sincere interest in helping others and taking care of people. Has your husband demonstrated this? Based on what you said, he has not, and he needs to get out in the field and get some experience.
What would your husband say when the interviewers ask him, so what made you decide to pursue medicine? Typical applicants would answer something related to their volunteer experience, or how being in the environment changed their perspective and they felt that it was a career worth pursuing. What would your husband say?
This is based off of your responses thus far, so it'll be different if he has indeed had recent experiences that you have not posted here yet. Oh, and being complete in February killed this cycle. Reapply June 1st.
Hi Dr. Willy, my H's clinical and philanthropic experience is not as recent as the committee ideally would like (2000), although the kind of work he is currently doing (and has for the last two years while finishing his pre-reqs) is in direct contact with some folks who suffer disease (like Cancer) or physical limitations and through his work and interaction with them, he is able to give them the ability to lead healthier and active lives, and has in some occasions impeded some of these folks from having to have surgery 👍 The 10+ years in his corporate role was in the health and fitness field, so he has always been very passionate about the betterment of human health and physical performance the natural way. He just came to the point that he felt that his efforts to help better the lives of people would further be achieved if he became a physician, specifically an osteopathic physician. So he has been exposed to the field and has definitely had the passion for a while. Yes, I do belive (although I do not KNOW anything about how this all works) that the reason as to why he has been rejected and/or waitlisted, is his lack of recent "traditional" clinical/volunteer experience and/or the tardiness in applying for the 2012 matriculation. However, his extracurricular summer activities will consist of heavy shadowing of his mentor who is the VP of Surgery at a BIG hospital where we live, and joining my continued volunteer efforts at a low cost medical clinic which caters to un-insured and the underinsured. 🙂
This combined with applying early should really help him get an acceptance in the next cycle.
As someone said above, letters of intent at any wait listed schools are a great idea. Any schools that go to their wait list are going to go straight to the applicants who continued to show the greatest interest.
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I have always been under the impression that if you get an interview, then "the spot" is yours to lose. Wouldn't ADCOMs already know that OP's husband didn't have any recent, direct exposure to medicine before the interview invite?
I completely agree that applying early and having recent exposure is a HUGE setback. But why would schools ask him to come for an interview if it wasn't possible for him to gain a spot through the interview? There may be underlying issues.....
I completely agree that applying early and having recent exposure is a HUGE setback. But why would schools ask him to come for an interview if it wasn't possible for him to gain a spot through the interview? There may be underlying issues.....
This may be true early in the season when the number of seats is still larger than the number of people interviewing. However, being complete in February, I highly doubt this statement holds true anymore. Many schools will typically interview for waitlist spots and have no actual seats available save for a few for stellar applicants.
It is also not unheard of that people are granted an interview and then later waitlisted or rejected due to low GPA or MCAT, which the ADCOMs should have known about prior to extending the interview. It truly is a game and all one can do it play it the best he/she can.
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I see. It just seems a bit strange and illogical to let someone take the time, energy and $ to come interview when disqualifying issues were known previous to the invite.
This is true; however, the schools don't really care about applicants' money. They care about filling their class. Some schools were even open about this- telling us on interview day that they "re-review" your whole application including stats, etc, before making the final decision.
I think in the case of the OP's husband, it may have been more that his lack of clinical experiences came through in a 'negative' way in the interview. Basically, when they are looking to see that you've had exposure to and experience with medicine, it becomes clear in the interview that this is lacking. He had to work harder (than those with more clinical experience) to prove to the interviewers that he knew 100% that this was the field for him.
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Good points. I forgot we were "just" applicants. Lol.
It may work like this:
One ADCOM member reads your application and feels for you. Maybe he was a low GPA student himself and wants to give you a chance. He puts you in the interview pile.
Later, after the interview, all the members of the ADCOMs meet with the interviewers and get their opinion. Then they vote on whether you should be accepted, waitlisted, or rejected. In the case of a person with a low GPA, it could possibly be that more members of the ADCOM feel as though your GPA is too low for automatic acceptance. The vote goes through, and you are waitlisted.
I take this from the book "The Medical School Interview: From preparation to thank you notes: Empowering advice to help you succeed" by Dr. Jessica Friedman. I purchased this book early in the season. My knowledge above is not word for word, but should be spot on with the general message from the book.
One ADCOM member reads your application and feels for you. Maybe he was a low GPA student himself and wants to give you a chance. He puts you in the interview pile.
Later, after the interview, all the members of the ADCOMs meet with the interviewers and get their opinion. Then they vote on whether you should be accepted, waitlisted, or rejected. In the case of a person with a low GPA, it could possibly be that more members of the ADCOM feel as though your GPA is too low for automatic acceptance. The vote goes through, and you are waitlisted.
I take this from the book "The Medical School Interview: From preparation to thank you notes: Empowering advice to help you succeed" by Dr. Jessica Friedman. I purchased this book early in the season. My knowledge above is not word for word, but should be spot on with the general message from the book.
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The "spot" is not yours to lose if you have an interview. Schools realize that many students hold more than one acceptance, but to offer so many acceptances that you have more students than seats is absurd and potentially devastating to both student and medical school. Many schools offer between 500-800 interviews for less than 200 seats, and sometimes less than 100 seats. Acceptance rates are generally anywhere from 30-60%.
Yes, people can and do get rejected after an interview. The interview is meant for the school to get to know you better, see if you are the right fit, what kind of candidate are you in person. There are plenty of people, believe me, who look great on paper but who are absolutely AWFUL in person.
Yes, people can and do get rejected after an interview. The interview is meant for the school to get to know you better, see if you are the right fit, what kind of candidate are you in person. There are plenty of people, believe me, who look great on paper but who are absolutely AWFUL in person.
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I was thinking the same thing?
I have heard that too from the school I'm waitlisted at. But what I don't understand is that if you're deemed "unworthy" because of your GPA/MCAT why would they want you to come in for an interview in the first place? Someone with a bad GPA who might be rejected because it's unknown whether or not they can handle med school (at least that's what seems to be the reason, I might be wrong) would have that same issue regardless; the GPA isn't going to change based on the number of other people accepted. So why interview someone like that?
Read my post. It's from a book written by a previous ADCOM member.
I think August is still considered "early" in the cycle (Even for AMCAS) and probably didn't affect you as much as you think. When you start talking Sept/Oct and beyond, then these other factors come into play against you.
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do most DO schools not keep seats open through the entire cycle to catch late entry highly desirable applicants? most MD schools that I am aware of leave a good many of their seats open until the final pool
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This makes sense. Thanks for the input/clarification!
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ah, just saw that. thanks!
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Ours doesn't. We want to fill the class as soon as possible with the best people possible.
