Interview with anti-LGBTQ

[ThrowawayBingo]

So basically I'm seriously stressing. I went to do my interview at New York College of Medicine and my interviewer was black but seriously conservative (IKR?!). He basically straight up asks me in my interview "So are you a homosexual?" I was so offended, I knew my high pitched voice gave me away but still really suprised an interviewer would ask such a personal question. I said "What does it matter if I'm straight or gay it doesn't matter if I want to be a physician, and to be honest that's kind of offensive." Basically after that I felt the interview was OK but I can't help but think I blew it. I got a rejction post II today Maybe I should of just lied and said "haha no I'm straight" but I dont know. What do you gays think? I could really use some supportive words here.

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[deleted480308]

So basically I'm seriously stressing. I went to do my interview at New York College of Medicine and my interviewer was black but seriously conservative (IKR?!). He basically straight up asks me in my interview "So are you a homosexual?" I was so offended, I knew my high pitched voice gave me away but still really suprised an interviewer would ask such a personal question. I said "What does it matter if I'm straight or gay it doesn't matter if I want to be a physician, and to be honest that's kind of offensive." Basically after that I felt the interview was OK but I can't help but think I blew it. I got a rejction post II today Maybe I should of just lied and said "haha no I'm straight" but I dont know. What do you gays think? I could really use some supportive words here.

Contact the school and notify them about the encounter so they know that it happened. I wouldn't necessarily think it will change the decision but they should be aware.

While it's definitely not on the "ok to ask this" list at all, there is a small chance that the person (small chance) didn't mean anything negative about it as sexual identity is something that schools actually track and promote as a diversity category and a number of students self identify for URM status.....but it should be your call to bring it up, not the interviewer

 

[Crayola227]

First of all, I'm very sorry you had this negative experience. To be clear, I consider myself a strong LGBTQ ally. I don't personally condone what happened to you. That said,

Sometimes they do this to mess with you.

I don't think you should have said you were offended. I get it, you were, and it is. BUT the reality as a physician is that you will be confronted with all sorts of BULLSHYTE and you have to find a way to walk around the landmines. Either this person was testing this, or is himself this sort of landmine, either way, there is a certain way to deal with these situations that is considered professional to our profession.

One way to handle these sorts of questions is to say, "I don't think that's relevant to my ability to care for you/be a physician." "With respect, that is not something I wish to discuss with patients/interviewers." "With respect, I don't think that's relevant to the situation at hand."

Catching a theme?

Honestly, if I was asked if I was heterosexual, I would say the exact same thing above to interviewers and patients. Saying you are offended I think has implications towards the other person that I think are problematic. You can choose to disclose or not, while also asserting your belief that it has no bearing on your suitability. Again, that puts the focus where it should be, and less on how you think the other person should feel.

Basically, our mission when we are a provider and treating a bigoted old crotchedy a-hole from the Deep South and the time of Segregation who thinks women are stupid isn't to try to make him see the errors of his ways and change his thinking.

You just need to try to calm his ass down as best you can to try to forge as much therapeutic alliance as you can to get the job done. Hopefully they don't demand a completely different doctor, but sometimes they do. Beyond just trying to avoid that and provide care, that's basically the only real goal.

So a couple last thoughts. In an interview, sometimes without malicious intent they are testing how you deal with confrontation about certain aspects of your existence that you might face as a physician. Other times they are a-holes, but still, whether the test is a test or is real, you still have to deal with it with grace. I'm not getting into whether or not it's right or wrong for this to happen; merely that it does and you have to deal.

Also, if you reference anything about your personal life in application/interview, then it is fair game for an interviewer to ask about for the most part, legally speaking.

If you mention your crackhead parents, be prepared to be asked if you ever did drugs with them.

If you mention all the LGBTQ extracurriculars you participated in, be prepared for that to come up.

Etc.

 

[twospadz]

I think you acted inappropriate. He asked you a legitimate question that probably did not have any negative implications. Its probably obvious that you are not heterosexual and so that why he asked. You will be confronted by ignorant patients. Yes, what you look like, your orientation, religion, accent will all affect your individual experience in medicine. Honestly, I would have rejected you too. Not for your sexual orientation. But because of your inability to handle a simple question when it medicine you will be faced with worse. I don't understand why you couldn't have been honest. It wouldnt have affected you vs the attitude you gave.

 

[otterxavier]

First of all, sorry you had to deal with that during your interview. I didn’t see what you said or how you said it, and I know that sometimes people express things differently when they’re venting in an anonymous forum vs. actually speaking in an interview, so I’ll resist the temptation to play Monday morning quarterback. But I certainly don’t blame you for taking offense at the question – I would have been upset too. Being visibly LGBTQ in a med school interview is a vulnerable position to be in, and it sucks to have lingering doubts about whether you were rejected because of your weaknesses or because of someone else’s bias.

Sexual orientation is one of those things (like religion, race, disability) that it’s pretty widely considered not okay to ask an applicant about, unless the applicant brings it up first. That’s especially true in a state like NY where it’s a legally protected category. And no, “looking gay” or “sounding gay” or being “obviously not heterosexual” doesn’t count as bringing it up. In that respect I think it’s very much worth making the school aware that you were asked this question – though I’d be careful to frame it in a way that doesn’t imply that it had anything to do with your rejection. I.e., your concern in writing to them is not to appeal their decision, it’s to ensure that future applicants don’t have to deal with the same thing.

More broadly: on interview days, schools are trying to show you the best of who they are. If a school’s MO is to have interviewers be deliberately confrontational or inflammatory to see how applicants respond under pressure (as though being in a med school interview isn’t enough pressure?), then that tells you something important about their philosophy of education, and the way you can expect to be treated as a student there. If that’s not the school’s intent, and the issue is rather that they haven’t given their interviewers appropriate training in how to discuss things like this with sensitivity, then that also tells you something about the way that they handle diversity. Either way, perhaps it means you’re better off not being there for four years.

 

[56iam]

Ugh, so sorry this happened to you. The interview is supposed to be a chance to get to know applicants, not a trial by fire with ignorant personal questions.

I agree with some of the other comments, you should contact the school and let then know that you were asked an inappropriate and illegal (double check this for your state) interview question.

If this is what the faculty are like at the school, then perhaps you dodged a bullet in the end. I had an interview at one school with the head of clinical simulation who had 0 interest in engaging with me and made me feel like an annoyance. It said a lot about the quality of faculty there.

 

[Amygdarya]

So basically I'm seriously stressing. I went to do my interview at New York College of Medicine and my interviewer was black but seriously conservative (IKR?!). He basically straight up asks me in my interview "So are you a homosexual?" I was so offended, I knew my high pitched voice gave me away but still really suprised an interviewer would ask such a personal question. I said "What does it matter if I'm straight or gay it doesn't matter if I want to be a physician, and to be honest that's kind of offensive." Basically after that I felt the interview was OK but I can't help but think I blew it. I got a rejction post II today Maybe I should of just lied and said "haha no I'm straight" but I dont know. What do you gays think? I could really use some supportive words here.

What is New York College of Medicine? (There's no such school) And what kind of application/interviewing process happens in May?

I would empathize with the situation if it were real.

 

[Trollest]

What is New York College of Medicine? (There's no such school) And what kind of application/interviewing process happens in May?

I would empathize with the situation if it were real.

he just got rejected. So, he interviewed way back. Still, I really don't know what he is fussing about unless he is uncomfortable being homosexual. The way I see it, the interview found a very poor way to ask him about his homosexuality as in what he has done for the community. Trust me, a true gunner would identify himself as homosexual if it increased his chances of getting into med school by 1%.

 

[Osminog]

I would empathize with the situation if it were real.

It's almost certainly a made-up situation. OP is a troll.

See his profile:

 

[Trollest]

So basically I'm seriously stressing. I went to do my interview at New York College of Medicine and my interviewer was black but seriously conservative (IKR?!). He basically straight up asks me in my interview "So are you a homosexual?" I was so offended, I knew my high pitched voice gave me away but still really suprised an interviewer would ask such a personal question. I said "What does it matter if I'm straight or gay it doesn't matter if I want to be a physician, and to be honest that's kind of offensive." Basically after that I felt the interview was OK but I can't help but think I blew it. I got a rejction post II today Maybe I should of just lied and said "haha no I'm straight" but I dont know. What do you gays think? I could really use some supportive words here.

I thought you were "homosexual" as well??

Yeah, OP is either a troll or doesn't identify with the lifestyle thereby prompting the interviewer to ask the question.

 

[shopsteward]

What is the relevance of the colour of the interviewer here?

Inclining towards a troll post.

 

[Osminog]

What is the relevance of the colour of the interviewer here?

Inclining towards a troll post.

During a May medical school interview, OP had an ultra-conservative black interviewer at a medical school that doesn't exist, and the interviewer was tipped off to OP's homosexuality by his "high-pitched voice." And now OP is "seriously stressed" after already receiving a post-interview rejection.

I don't see any holes in this story. What's not to believe?

 

[Robin-jay]

Basically, our mission when we are a provider and treating a bigoted old crotchedy a-hole from the Deep South and the time of Segregation who thinks women are stupid isn't to try to make him see the errors of his ways and change his thinking.

I actually agree with the majority of your long post, but the phrase "bigoted old crotchedy a-hole from the Deep South" is just as bad as many racist, sexist, hompohobic etc. phrases.

Its like me saying "that ignorant, uneducated, SJW victim-wanna-be homo from San Francisco".

 

[Osminog]

I don't know... I feel that using colorful vocabulary to describe someone who considers women to be intellectually inferior to men isn't equivalent to insulting someone for belonging to the LGBTQ community.

I think a better analogy would be "promiscuous, HIV-infected a-holes from San Francisco who think Christians are evil."

It's not good to overgeneralize about people in the LGBT community, and likewise it's not good to overgeneralize about people in the Deep South. There are plenty of reasonable, tolerant people living down there.

 

[Robin-jay]

I don't know... I feel that using colorful vocabulary to describe someone who considers women to be intellectually inferior to men isn't equivalent to insulting someone for belonging to the LGBTQ community.

Either way, its a negative stereotype regarding a large group of people.

I think that's the problem with a lot of "intellectuals" these days. One-way streets only, as its ok to make fun of certain people but not others. When in fact, its a two-way street.

 

[bedizen]

I actually agree with the majority of your long post, but the phrase "bigoted old crotchedy a-hole from the Deep South" is just as bad as many racist, sexist, hompohobic etc. phrases.

Its like me saying "that ignorant, uneducated, SJW victim-wanna-be homo from San Francisco".

I take issue with this perspective because it lacks context and nuance. Calling out regional/cultural ideologies is not the same as discriminatory phrases that are backed by structural oppression (i.e. historical policies that target minority groups but are more subtle than cross burning/explicit hatred, so folks don't realize their impact). But love that you found an excuse to say something offensive under the guise of comparison.

 

[Osminog]

I take issue with this perspective because it lacks context and nuance. Calling out regional/cultural ideologies is not the same as discriminatory phrases that are backed by structural oppression (i.e. historical policies that target minority groups but are more subtle than cross burning/explicit hatred, so folks don't realize their impact). But love that you found an excuse to say something offensive under the guise of comparison.

It's bad to form all-encompassing generalizations about people living in the Deep South, and likewise, it's bad to do so about LGBT people. Are people in the Deep South more likely to have strong, faith-based convictions and old-fashioned conceptions of race and gender? Yes. Are homosexual and bisexual men more likely to have more sex partners and to be infected with HIV than heterosexual men? Yes. But it's wrong to use to these facts to immediately stereotype every member of these groups. There are far-left atheists who are proud to be Southerners, and there are traditionalist conservatives who are proud to be gay.

 

[Robin-jay]

I take issue with this perspective because it lacks context and nuance. Calling out regional/cultural ideologies is not the same as discriminatory phrases that are backed by structural oppression (i.e. historical policies that target minority groups but are more subtle than cross burning/explicit hatred, so folks don't realize their impact). But love that you found an excuse to say something offensive under the guise of comparison.

This isn't a confusing topic.

The above poster made a "xenophobic (in terms of southern culture -- not my preferred word but you get the point)" remark, and you are mad because it "disagrees with your opinion". This is what is wrong with America.

 

[bedizen]

It's bad to form all-encompassing generalizations about people living in the Deep South, and likewise, it's bad to do so about LGBT people. Are people in the Deep South more likely to have strong, faith-based convictions and old-fashioned conceptions of race and gender? Yes. Are homosexual and bisexual men more likely to have more sex partners and to be infected with HIV than heterosexual men? Yes. But it's wrong to use to these facts to immediately stereotype every member of these groups.

Generalizations are bad, absolutely yes and I never supported that in my post. But saying "crotchedy bigoted a-hole from the South" is not. at. all. the same as discriminatory stereotypes that have been used to systemically oppress minority groups. Have southerners been structurally oppressed because their bigots? No, in fact they run political campaigns on it and get elected to office. The phrase you two are so deeply offended by is so vague -- no indication of race, gender, etc. Calling out bigots is good and doing so does not, in fact, make one a bigot. What kind of logic is this?

The above poster made a "xenophobic (not my preferred word but you get the point)" remark, and you are mad because it "disagrees with your opinion". This is what is wrong with America.

Xenophobic: having or showing a dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries. Sorry, we're having a conversation about generalizations and you say "this is the problem with America." The problem is that folks don't educate themselves.

 

[Robin-jay]

Generalizations are bad, absolutely yes and I never supported that in my post. But saying "crotchedy bigoted a-hole from the South" is not. at. all. the same as discriminatory stereotypes that have been used to systemically oppress minority groups. Have southerners been structurally oppressed because their bigots? No, in fact they run political campaigns on it and get elected to office. The phrase you two are so deeply offended by is so vague -- no indication of race, gender, etc. Calling out bigots is good and doing so does not, in fact, make one a bigot. What kind of logic is this?

What type of logic you ask? It's equal logic. It's logic where you can't call people bigots solely for the reason you disagree with them.

Stereotyping is wrong no matter which group you decide to pick on.

Xenophobic: having or showing a dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries. Sorry, we're having a conversation about generalizations and you say "this is the problem with America." The problem is that folks don't educate themselves.

Thats why I said "xenophobic with respect to southern culture". Did you miss that part? There's so many phobic's these days that I just wanted to make it clear.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to call out someone stereotyping when in the same sentence they oppose it. I'm tired of that garbage.

The "I can stereotype when I want to, but condemn it when I want to" mentality is absolute trash and I will call it out when I see it.

I guess you could say I'm "fair".

 

[bedizen]

What type of logic you ask? It's equal logic. It's logic where you can't call people bigots solely for the reason you disagree with them.

Stereotyping is wrong no matter which group you decide to pick on.



Thats why I said "xenophobic with respect to southern culture". Did you miss that part? There's so many phobic's these days that I just wanted to make it clear.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to call out someone stereotyping when in the same sentence they oppose it. I'm tired of that garbage.

The "I can stereotype when I want to, but condemn it when I want to" mentality is absolute trash and I will call it out when I see it.

I guess you could say I'm "fair".

Haha friend you are grasping and we all see it. Yes i did miss you saying that because you didn't write that and then edited your post (54 minutes ago!) to seem less ignorant. Never supported stereotyping, which you'd know if you read my posts. As someone who is queer and lived in the south, it's really not that much of a stereotype. You call yourself "fair," I call you totally ignorant about things you haven't experienced first-hand.

edited to add: "xenophobia with respect to southern culture." lmao you're dismissed.

 

[Crayola227]

I think people missed my point, that no matter what YOUR biases are or that of your patients, they have to be put aside to establish a therapeutic relationship and provide the best care you can, which is in line with the PATIENT'S values and desired outcomes, as well as what is medically appropriate.

I admit that my words were ill-chosen but still actually makes my point: leave your politics and personal values that are not furthering your appropriate care of the patient, at the door.

Basically, patients can hold discriminatory viewpoints, and so can a doctor (if that's what you want to call me out for, if anything, I'm making the point that physicians can have feelings about patients that are not appropriate to the matter at hand).

My point however, was still that a physician must set that aside, and your job is not to impose your beliefs and biases ("racist southerners" "black gays"), or attempt to change your patient's unless there is direct medical benefit (ie, attempting to create a therapeutic relationship as needed between a patient and a necessary provider of a demographic they otherwise wish to avoid).

I'm not getting into whether or not any of these feelings should be felt, or have any grounds to them. I'm saying that whatever they are, you put aside your own shyte to carry out your oath.

The End.

 

[Robin-jay]

Haha friend you are grasping and we all see it. Yes i did miss you saying that because you didn't write that and then edited your post (54 minutes ago!) to seem less ignorant. Never supported stereotyping, which you'd know if you read my posts. As someone who is queer and lived in the south, it's really not that much of a stereotype. You call yourself "fair," I call you totally ignorant about things you haven't experienced first-hand.

edited to add: "xenophobia with respect to southern culture." lmao you're dismissed.

I fully stand by what I said in my previous post.

 

[Robin-jay]

I think people missed my point, that no matter what YOUR biases are or that of your patients, they have to be put aside to establish a therapeutic relationship and provide the best care you can, which is in line with the PATIENT'S values and desired outcomes, as well as what is medically appropriate.

I admit that my words were ill-chosen but still actually makes my point: leave your politics and personal values that are not furthering your appropriate care of the patient, at the door.

Basically, patients can hold discriminatory viewpoints, and so can a doctor (if that's what you want to call me out for, if anything, I'm making the point that physicians can have feelings about patients that are not appropriate to the matter at hand).

My point however, was still that a physician must set that aside, and your job is not to impose your beliefs and biases ("racist southerners" "black gays"), or attempt to change your patient's unless there is direct medical benefit (ie, attempting to create a therapeutic relationship as needed between a patient and a necessary provider of a demographic they otherwise wish to avoid).

I'm not getting into whether or not any of these feelings should be felt, or have any grounds to them. I'm saying that whatever they are, you put aside your own shyte to carry out your oath.

The End.

No one is disagreeing with you on the fundamental point that we need to treat every patient with our complete effort and caring-ness.

Your "ill-chosen" words were just a good example of a Freudian slip.

 

[Crayola227]

No one is disagreeing with you on the fundamental point that we need to treat every patient with our complete effort and caring-ness.

Your "ill-chosen" words were just a good example of a Freudian slip.

If anything, it proves the point of how these sorts of things can get interjected even from the most well-intentioned (which I intend to be...), and it's certainly a real issue with patients and docs alike. I don't defend what the interviewer did of course, just that this sorta stuff happens and the best you can do is react appropriately because there's no way you can prevent it.

 

[PracticeAdmin]

I am a little late in chiming in here, however to me the biggest issue on this thread is whether an interviewer has the right to ask about a person's sexual orientation. The answer is NO. Just like they cannot ask you if you are married, pregnant, catholic, or Democrat. It shows an overt bias and is grounds for a discrimination suit. Just because sexual orientation is not a protected class, does not mean you cannot be sued. The interviewer needs to be counseled on what can and cannot be asked in an interview.

 

[Robin-jay]

If anything, it proves the point of how these sorts of things can get interjected even from the most well-intentioned (which I intend to be...), and it's certainly a real issue with patients and docs alike. I don't defend what the interviewer did of course, just that this sorta stuff happens and the best you can do is react appropriately because there's no way you can prevent it.

The very, very simple point is that stereotyping is wrong, doesn't matter which side you're on.

 

[Crayola227]

The very, very simple point is that stereotyping is wrong, doesn't matter which side you're on.

I thought the not so simple point was regarding how to deal with these unavoidable scenarios to achieve the best possible result for whatever the end goal is - interviewing, admission, patient care.

 

[Crayola227]

I am a little late in chiming in here, however to me the biggest issue on this thread is whether an interviewer has the right to ask about a person's sexual orientation. The answer is NO. Just like they cannot ask you if you are married, pregnant, catholic, or Democrat. It shows an overt bias and is grounds for a discrimination suit. Just because sexual orientation is not a protected class, does not mean you cannot be sued. The interviewer needs to be counseled on what can and cannot be asked in an interview.

Not actually true, they can ask about any of that if the interviewee brings it up first. It's true that anyone can sue anyone for anything if they can get an attorney to take the case.

I agree that this interviewer's behavior is reprehensible, and likely is a legal liability for the employer. That is not the same as it being illegal. I'm not sure why people conflate ethics and right and wrong with the law. Just because you think it's wrong doesn't make it illegal.

Being clear on these sorts of points I think is pretty essential if you want to navigate life.

 

[Crayola227]

Yes, an issue for employers is that if they elicit this information, it becomes a liability because just having it opens them up to a lawsuit asserting that they used it inappropriately.

This is why it usually doesn't come up in interviews, even if the whole matter and information could be handled legally.

That's another point. It's often not about the letter of the law, but how the chips will exactly fall. Most institutions don't tread here even if they are behaving within the law. Because doing so doesn't always protect you from negative outcomes.

 

[Robin-jay]

I thought the not so simple point was regarding how to deal with these unavoidable scenarios to achieve the best possible result for whatever the end goal is - interviewing, admission, patient care.

It was the point until the OP was an obvious troll -- which isn't surprising (look at the quote below).

Then the point was that you shouldn't stereotype the south. Easy peazy.

It's almost certainly a made-up situation. OP is a troll.

See his profile:

View attachment 233345

 

[Crayola227]

It was the point until the OP was an obvious troll -- which isn't surprising (look at the quote below).

Then the point was that you shouldn't stereotype the south. Easy peazy.

You'll feel a slight pressure.

 

[PracticeAdmin]

Not actually true, they can ask about any of that if the interviewee brings it up first. It's true that anyone can sue anyone for anything if they can get an attorney to take the case.

I agree that this interviewer's behavior is reprehensible, and likely is a legal liability for the employer. That is not the same as it being illegal. I'm not sure why people conflate ethics and right and wrong with the law. Just because you think it's wrong doesn't make it illegal.

Being clear on these sorts of points I think is pretty essential if you want to navigate life.

It is a liability if it resulted in the candidate being rejected, which in the case presented was the case. And yes, the liability would be for the school.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Would you really want to attend a school that tolerated clowns like these?