Interviewer misinformed/full of it?

[PikminOC]

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Is it against the law to refuse treatment? If I don't have the expertise in something, I document it as such and send a discharge letter to the patient with 30 days of emergency care.

 

[487806]

No, I am actually happy feel sorry for her screw up.

😕 Who are you talking about?

 

[laricb]

I suspect you have no idea what the right answer actually was. Awkward happenings in the interview is not a kiss of death. Many interviewers will keep pushing until it gets weird or you get uncomfortable just to see how you handle it

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

What she should have said if the patient pushes the issue I would accommodate her wishes and perform the abortion. That is what he wanted to here.This wasn't a political interview.

 

[laricb]

😕 Who are you talking about?

The OP

 

[music2doc]

What she should have said if the patient pushes the issue I would accommodate her wishes and perform the abortion. That is what he wanted to here.This wasn't a political interview.

Actually, if anything, I would take that interviewer's approach as potentially indicative of the culture of the program and decide I am going elsewhere. The interview is as much about you choosing them as them choosing you. If the school's adcom cannot understand a student standing up for his/her ethical beliefs in an interview (and disagreeing appropriately with the interviewer), then that is a school I would not want to attend [says he who was holding at least one acceptance already at 7 of his 9 interviews... which does make a difference in approach).

 

[laricb]

Actually, if anything, I would take that interviewer's approach as potentially indicative of the culture of the program and decide I am going elsewhere. The interview is as much about you choosing them as them choosing you. If the school's adcom cannot understand a student standing up for his/her ethical beliefs in an interview (and disagreeing apprt opriately with the interviewer), then that is a school I would not want to atttend.

Good advice. It is hard enough getting into a US medical school so you would just elliminate another school, just to stand by your morals. You probably will never see the interviewer again. Say what he wants to hear you can still keep your feelings to yourself and practice them when you become a doctor. Which I believe is the end goal..

 

[Frazier]

Yea, interviewer sounds like s/he was being confrontational. Why? Who knows...

However, there is something that can be said of observing an applicant " perform under pressure".

That said, once I join an adcom, I intend to grill the hell out of my interviewees for the first 10 minutes...then, depending on their performance, turn the heat way down and relax the rest of the convo.

Transparency is important, so i'll be sure to tell them at the end how they did a la deans letter-esque terms (well, good, great, fantastic, etc) for closure.

#cantwait @schadenfreude

 

[487806]

The OP

... OP's a guy...

Actually, if anything, I would take that interviewer's approach as potentially indicative of the culture of the program and decide I am going elsewhere. The interview is as much about you choosing them as them choosing you. If the school's adcom cannot understand a student standing up for his/her ethical beliefs in an interview (and disagreeing appropriately with the interviewer), then that is a school I would not want to attend [says he who was holding at least one acceptance already at 7 of his 9 interviews... which does make a difference in approach).

Well said.

 

[487806]

Good advice. It is hard enough getting into a US medical school so you would just elliminate another school, just to stand by your morals. You probably will never see the interviewer again. Say what he wants to hear you can still keep your feelings to yourself and practice them when you become a doctor. Which I believe is the end goal..

Aren't you a strong advocate of Ross and SGU? You should also consider St. James, American University of Antigua College, and Trinity School.

 

[laricb]

... OP's a guy...



Well said.

He said he was a girl. I guess he was joking

 

[laricb]

Aren't you a strong advocate of Ross and SGU? You should also consider St. James, American University of Antigua College, and Trinity School.

If you get to where I am at then you can talk

 

[487806]

He said he was a girl. I guess he was joking

He didn't mention that in this thread...

If you get to where I am at then you can talk

It was a meaningful suggestion. 😕

 

[TheMightySmiter]

He said he was a girl. I guess he was joking

When did he say that?

 

[laricb]

He didn't mention that in this thread...



It was a meaningful suggestion. 😕

No it was a wise crack. Just wondering did you get accepted yet

 

[487806]

No it was a wise crack. Just wondering did you get accepted yet

If you want to view it that way, I guess. To each his own. I haven't applied yet though. Hopefully you're good to go.

 

[KnuxNole]

Your an idiot. It was an interview, tell him what he wants to hear. What did your moral code get you. A big fat rejection.

What is this I don't even....

I guess they don't teach ethics in the Caribbean...

 

[SpecterGT260]

What she should have said if the patient pushes the issue I would accommodate her wishes and perform the abortion. That is what he wanted to here.This wasn't a political interview.

So what you are saying is that you are willing to bend and/or break your own moral and ethical convictions if the situation seems to warrant it. Do we want people of weak ethical fortitude becoming doctors? 🙄

The CORRECT answer is that interviewers have often been doing this for quite a long time and know much more about what the school wants than you do. Trying to pander to the interviewer can be very transparent. For MedPR to get waitlisted means the interview probably went pretty well. He is fighting an uphill battle against his stats if I recall correctly. To just assume that the interviewer wants some cookie cutter answer is a very poor idea. I think MedPRs answer is best - do not try to anticipate what the interviewer wants and just be yourself. You could read the interviewer wrong and really end up in a bad place

 

[laricb]

What is this I don't even....

I guess they don't teach ethics in the Caribbean...

Easy to chime in when your already in med school

 

[487806]

So what you are saying is that you are willing to bend and/or break your own moral and ethical convictions if the situation seems to warrant it. Do we want people of weak ethical fortitude becoming doctors? 🙄

The CORRECT answer is that interviewers have often been doing this for quite a long time and know much more about what the school wants than you do. Trying to pander to the interviewer can be very transparent. For MedPR to get waitlisted means the interview probably went pretty well. He is fighting an uphill battle against his stats if I recall correctly. To just assume that the interviewer wants some cookie cutter answer is a very poor idea. I think MedPRs answer is best - do not try to anticipate what the interviewer wants and just be yourself. You could read the interviewer wrong and really end up in a bad place

Excellent statement! I agree with you and others who have stated that an interview waitlist means that an interview went well, but something else was taken to consideration. That's definitely assuring.

 

[laricb]

So what you are saying is that you are willing to bend and/or break your own moral and ethical convictions if the situation seems to warrant it. Do we want people of weak ethical fortitude becoming doctors? 🙄

The CORRECT answer is that interviewers have often been doing this for quite a long time and know much more about what the school wants than you do. Trying to pander to the interviewer can be very transparent. For MedPR to get waitlisted means the interview probably went pretty well. He is fighting an uphill battle against his stats if I recall correctly. To just assume that the interviewer wants some cookie cutter answer is a very poor idea. I think MedPRs answer is best - do not try to anticipate what the interviewer wants and just be yourself. You could read the interviewer wrong and really end up in a bad place

Another medical student. It is easy to comment this way when you are already in. Her main goal is to get accepted, looking confused and sweating wont work..

 

[KnuxNole]

Easy to chime in when your already in med school

You don't have to "play the game" to get through interviews. They are for the most part, not that stressful. There are some people who ask tough questions, but those who are calm come out on top.

If I wasn't in med school, I would have the same approach. Being YOURSELF(ie not being a phony fake everyone can see through), being calm and relaxed. And also, why do you say you'll never see the interviewer again? Who do you think interviews candidates, random people off the street?

 

[SpecterGT260]

Is it against the law to refuse treatment? If I don't have the expertise in something, I document it as such and send a discharge letter to the patient with 30 days of emergency care.

Are you asking rhetorically or for real?..... I feel like this is something a practicing physician should know. No offense.... but there as been several times where you have asked questions around here that make me wonder... Things just sometimes strike me as not indicative of the thought process of someone who has actually made it out there.

Actually, if anything, I would take that interviewer's approach as potentially indicative of the culture of the program and decide I am going elsewhere. The interview is as much about you choosing them as them choosing you. If the school's adcom cannot understand a student standing up for his/her ethical beliefs in an interview (and disagreeing appropriately with the interviewer), then that is a school I would not want to attend [says he who was holding at least one acceptance already at 7 of his 9 interviews... which does make a difference in approach).

That last part is important. If you are staring your only acceptance in the face, things tend to change

Aren't you a strong advocate of Ross and SGU? You should also consider St. James, American University of Antigua College, and Trinity School.

This isnt the pre-med who claims to be the carib grad ED doc who wants to go DO just because he likes OMM, is it?

He said he was a girl. I guess he was joking

quote it or it didnt happen

If you get to where I am at then you can talk

and where would that be?

Easy to chime in when your already in med school

you're*
we went over this already

Apparently they teach English right about the time they teach ethics down there, huh?

 

[487806]

Another medical student. It is easy to comment this way when you are already in. Her main goal is to get accepted, looking confused and sweating wont work..

What's with your distaste in medical students? I'm pretty sure that medical students have a lot of interview experience from the application process and know what they are talking about. They are providing helpful advice to resolve this situation well.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Another medical student. It is easy to comment this way when you are already in. Her main goal is to get accepted, looking confused and sweating wont work..

Or maybe we are in BECAUSE we approached things this way? At least partially. I know for a fact that people have been rejected at my school because they appear to be playing the interviewers. It is much easier to pick up than you think. Avoiding the over worked cookie-cutter answers is ideal. Show yourself to be an individual who is capable of critically thinking about a topic rather than regurgitating a safe answer.

Also, the OP is a he. Another thing that has been covered that you seem to struggle with. Apparently anatomy and sexual assignment gets taught down there right after ethics and english. More and more reasons I am glad I didnt have to resort to the carib

 

[487806]

you're*
we went over this already

Apparently they teach English right about the time they teach ethics down there, huh?

You're awesome, Specter. 👍👍

But rest assured, I will defeat you in a meme war.

Also, the OP is a he. Another thing that has been covered that you seem to struggle with. Apparently anatomy and sexual assignment gets taught down there right after ethics and english. More and more reasons I am glad I didnt have to resort to the carib

🤣

 

[laricb]

Are you asking rhetorically or for real?..... I feel like this is something a practicing physician should know. No offense.... but there as been several times where you have asked questions around here that make me wonder... Things just sometimes strike me as not indicative of the thought process of someone who has actually made it out there.

That last part is important. If you are staring your only acceptance in the face, things tend to change

This isnt the pre-med who claims to be the carib grad ED doc who wants to go DO just because he likes OMM, is it?


quote it or it didnt happen


and where would that be?



you're*
we went over this already

Apparently they teach English right about the time they teach ethics down there, huh?

SGU graduate. Finishing my first year of residency in Anesthesiology.Anymore questions about me.Oh I mistyped a word how dumb of me

 

[def1]

Don't even need extenuating circumstances.

Docs "fire" patients all the time for not vaccinating their kids, not quitting smoking, being obese, no-showing for multiple appointments, etc. Not necessarily for these things themselves (aside from the no-show), but more because after countless conversations the "relationship" just isn't working out because the two parties aren't seeing eye-to-eye.

I have a personal acquaintance who is quite obese and this eventually led to chronic knee issues, including a couple of surgeries. Over and over again her doc emphasized that her weight was the source of the problems and until she lost significant poundage, everything he or the ortho specialists could do was merely a short-term solution. She didn't lose weight (just gained more) and kept hounding her physician over and over to "do something more". Eventually he just told her that he was sorry but he couldn't see her anymore until she had lost weight. Was quite sad since I saw all this from the "outside" as a friend of the patient.

The vaccine stuff happens a lot:

More Doctors 'Fire' Vaccine Refusers

Also, when you say you are familiar with "ethical laws", what are those? There are state and federal laws (legal system) and then there are ethical guidelines (set forth by specialty bodies and medical organizations). Not following one gets you fined/jailed while not obeying the other gets you dirty looks, bad publicity, and maybe in extreme cases a revoked license.

You are right about having to give patients adequate notice and time when "firing" them so that they can find care elsewhere if they so choose. Otherwise it may be abandonment.

It's interesting stuff. Obviously you'd hope that most doctors would only resort to such measures as a last resort, but it's important to know the distinction between guideline and actual law. I also think it's funny how the "abortion scenario" is a classic interview dilemma that almost everyone gets asked eventually... because that's not real life. PCPs almost never perform abortions, but rather the moms-to-be-(not) go to abortion clinics or someplace where there won't be any objecting providers to begin with.

Yes I was thinking of physician abandonment. I guess I didnt realize docs could fire for small things like that, but I knew they had to give the patient adequate notice and help them find a new provider. Like I said its been a while since I read up on this but the reason I had was in the past there was some Oklahoma(?) dr. who refused to give emergency contraception to a rape victim, and the patient's mother was trying to start a case against them.

I actually think that makes an interesting case, because emergency contraception is a time sensitive matter and the victims psychological health is in question, and refusal of treatment can make the patient feel guilty or hurt them mentally. Not sure how that would relate exactly to the ethics of the debate but its interesting.

And for using "ethical laws" that was a bit of bad phrasing on my part. But I was trying to refer to the overlap between the ethical responsibility to our patients that coincide with the legal responsibilities to our patients, such as in the abandonment case.

 

[487806]

SGU graduate. Finishing my first year of residency in Anesthesiology.Anymore questions about me.Oh I mistyped a word how dumb of me

So very true. 🙄 Why is your status premed when you registered in Aug 2012?

 

[Romz]

I must be an idiot aswell because I would have done exactly what the OP did.

I would've thought the Med Schools where looking for integrity of character. I probably would've brought up my ignorance regarding the legality of it all, but I wouldn't have gone on my knees and kissed the interviewers ass either, no matter how bad I want med school.

This mentality probably will cost me an acceptance somewhere, But i find that If I start being superficial and breaking down to accommodate the interviewers views (right or wrong), I can wave goodbye at acceptances at a lot more other schools.

 

[laricb]

So very true. 🙄 Why is your status premed when you registered in Aug 2012?

Your good you should be a detective I am not laricb my son is..He is also attending SGU.

 

[SpecterGT260]

SGU graduate. Finishing my first year of residency in Anesthesiology.Anymore questions about me.Oh I mistyped a word how dumb of me

The misspelling is the symptom, not the disease.

You also aren't a resident

Yes I was thinking of physician abandonment. I guess I didnt realize docs could fire for small things like that, but I knew they had to give the patient adequate notice and help them find a new provider. Like I said its been a while since I read up on this but the reason I had was in the past there was some Oklahoma(?) dr. who refused to give emergency contraception to a rape victim, and the patient's mother was trying to start a case against them.

I actually think that makes an interesting case, because emergency contraception is a time sensitive matter and the victims psychological health is in question, and refusal of treatment can make the patient feel guilty or hurt them mentally. Not sure how that would relate exactly to the ethics of the debate but its interesting.

And for using "ethical laws" that was a bit of bad phrasing on my part. But I was trying to refer to the overlap between the ethical responsibility to our patients that coincide with the legal responsibilities to our patients, such as in the abandonment case.

Many of these bases are already covered. Emergency contraception is OTC, you just have to be 18 and sign for it in the pharmacy.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Your good you should be a detective I am not laricb my son is..He is also attending SGU.

you're*

Not true. MY son is laricb, and he is studying art and interpretive dance at UCSF.
Gotta love that nobody can confirm whatever you make up to make your story fit, right? I feel like there are not a large number of non-trad gas interns from SGU. So the question is which is more likely, someone is just making crap up, a ~50 year old who types like a middle schooler on facebook decided to go SGU over non-trad friendly DO schools, or some guy had a kid when he was 3-4 years old himself and they went to the carib together to become doctors?

Take your time, this is a toughy.

 

[music2doc]

That last part is important. If you are staring your only acceptance in the face, things tend to change

Absolutely. That's why I added that detail. However, I think it would be wise for pre-meds to take that to heart regardless. If the interviewer reporting your disagreement with him/her to the adcom gets you a rejection, that school wasn't for you in the first place and it would be best to wait a year to attend elsewhere. Seriously. This is your career we are talking about and you're going to be stuck there for at least 4 years (possibly 5-10+ if you do a dual degree program and/or residency at your home institution as many end up doing). You want to be happy at your school.

 

[laricb]

The misspelling is the symptom, not the disease.

You also aren't a resident



Many of these bases are already covered. Emergency contraception is OTC, you just have to be 18 and sign for it in the pharmacy.

Another detective Ill scan you a copy of my diploma would that satisfy you

 

[Frazier]

I must be an idiot aswell because I would have done exactly what the OP did.

I would've thought the Med Schools where looking for integrity of character. I probably would've brought up my ignorance regarding the legality of it all, but I wouldn't have gone on my knees and kissed the interviewers ass either, no matter how bad I want med school.

This mentality probably will cost me an acceptance somewhere, But i find that If I start being superficial and breaking down to accommodate the interviewers views (right or wrong), I can wave goodbye at acceptances at a lot more other schools.

.. So you're saying that the poop hotdog is a no-go?

 

[sliceofbread136]

1) Expert witness testimony falls under the scope of "medical practice". Their testimony is subject to peer review and fraudulent testimony can constitute malpractice itself resulting in revocation of license or financial liability.

2) Committee review by a board of health administrators, practicing physicians, and lawyers instead of jury by peers. Im sorry, but Hank from the supermarket is not a "peer" to a hospital, and it is a little absurd to sue the individual anyways. The shotgun approach to litigation needs to stop

3) Personally, I'd like to see precedent set for counter-suits against patients filing frivolous lawsuits....but that is just my vindictive side.

4) Another one that I may be alone on - no more monetary payouts. Or at least capped beyond tangible losses and do away with "emotional suffering" payouts. I find them insulting... If you get bad service at a restaurant, do they hand you a check? No... you get free desert. Give free healthcare at the expense of the hospital, maybe. It isnt bulletproof, but IMO we need to reduce the number of people chasing after payouts in order to get to real instances of malpractice.

Non-bolded ones I think are ok. Second and fourth one one would violate the bill of rights.

 

[laricb]

you're*

Not true. MY son is laricb, and he is studying art and interpretive dance at UCSF.
Gotta love that nobody can confirm whatever you make up to make your story fit, right? I feel like there are not a large number of non-trad gas interns from SGU. So the question is which is more likely, someone is just making crap up, a ~50 year old who types like a middle schooler on facebook decided to go SGU over non-trad friendly DO schools, or some guy had a kid when he was 3-4 years old himself and they went to the carib together to become doctors?

Take your time, this is a toughy.

Your a total ASSXXXX was that slow enough

 

[KnuxNole]

Another detective Ill scan you a copy of my diploma would that satisfy you

I think you just don't realize that people can read your past posts. Therefore, you cant keep changing who you are. It's not detective work. If it was, then being Sherlock Holmes must be a cakewalk 😀

 

[laricb]

I think you just don't realize that people can read your past posts. Therefore, you cant keep changing who you are. It's not detective work. If it was, then being Sherlock Holmes must be a cakewalk 😀

If I occasionally get on this website using my sons login because I don't feel the need to create my own login to give advice. Does that make me a liar.

 

[NickNaylor]

Non-bolded ones I think are ok. Second and fourth one one would violate the bill of rights.

The 6th amendment isn't limitless - it's applicable only to criminal proceedings, not civil ones, so unless the physician is being charged criminally a jury trial isn't necessary.

 

[KnuxNole]

If I occasionally get on this website using my sons login does that make me a liar.

It can confuse people. If YOU(i.e. the father) are the PGY2 gas resident, and your son posts saying he's a carib student or whatever he is, it seems conflicting.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Non-bolded ones I think are ok. Second and fourth one one would violate the bill of rights.

Not necessarily. For the second one you are assuming this has to be a trial by jury. I would have to do a little digging but I am pretty sure that there are situations in which the definition of the grievance dictates how it is tried. I can see your point, but it is a matter of interpretation (just like everything in law is)

The 4th one.... I am not aware of anything in the bill of rights stating that people with beefs are entitled to money. That is something we just kinda started doing. In our country "suing" has become synonymous for seeking cash, but technically you sue for any legal action. For example, you technically sue for divorce (with the exception being joint filings)

Your a total ASSXXXX was that slow enough

you're*
ass*
There are also significant punctuation issues happening here, but there is no convenient way to asterisk them in there

 

[SpecterGT260]

If I occasionally get on this website using my sons login because I don't feel the need to create my own login to give advice. Does that make me a liar.

no, but you lying about using your "son's" account makes you a liar

There may also be something in the TOS about this.... not sure though

 

[SpecterGT260]

Another detective Ill scan you a copy of my diploma would that satisfy you

Sure

 

[laricb]

It can confuse people. If YOU(i.e. the father) are the PGY2 gas resident, and your son posts saying he's a carib student or whatever he is, it seems conflicting.

I understand what your saying. But I only give my opinion in hoping to help someone.

 

[def1]

Many of these bases are already covered. Emergency contraception is OTC, you just have to be 18 and sign for it in the pharmacy.

What if its a homeless teen under 18 with no access to anyone with legal custody over them. If the soonest another physician can see this patient is a week or more after, it might be too late to receive emergency contraception and now the patient is dealing with an actual pregnancy and must go through an actual abortion causing further emotional harm. Also I would assume rape treatment is an emergency situation and thus providing emergency contraception would be part of that treatment.

It seems the situation would not be black and white.

 

[laricb]

no, but you lying about using your "son's" account makes you a liar

There may also be something in the TOS about this.... not sure though

Why don't you look into it and get back to me ASSXXXX I like this username better then spectergt260

 

[sliceofbread136]

The 6th amendment isn't limitless - it's applicable only to criminal proceedings, not civil ones, so unless the physician is being charged criminally a jury trial isn't necessary.

Not necessarily. For the second one you are assuming this has to be a trial by jury. I would have to do a little digging but I am pretty sure that there are situations in which the definition of the grievance dictates how it is tried. I can see your point, but it is a matter of interpretation (just like everything in law is)

The 4th one.... I am not aware of anything in the bill of rights stating that people with beefs are entitled to money. That is something we just kinda started doing. In our country "suing" has become synonymous for seeking cash, but technically you sue for any legal action. For example, you technically sue for divorce (with the exception being joint filings)

I'll admit my knowledge on this subject is limited to listening to doctors complain about law suits and watching the movie "Hot Coffee". I just feel that in some cases tort reform ends hurting patients who actually do deserve and need the money they receive from litigation. It's not all frivilous lawsuits, I think sometimes we forget that.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Why don't you look into it and get back to me ASSXXXX I like this username better then spectergt260

than*

Seriously.... I mean I am running forming an assumption here based on the fact that I have never met a physician, resident, or med student who didn't care enough about looking to dumb to just proofread a little. I'm still saying you are just an average college kid who is making things up.

 

[KnuxNole]

*too

come on now Specter 🙁