Invasive cardiology as a DO

[Mcat35]

After observing plenty of cardiac cath procedures, I feel that this is the route that i want to take eventually. After a DO internal med residency, are there opportunities for invasive cardiology fellows. Non interventional (invasive)

Also for those cardiology fellows out there, do you have to have elite/perfect vision to perform cath procedures? I was born with Amblyopia (lazy eye) of 1 eye, so even with corrective lenses, I will never be able to achieve a 20/20 vision in that eye.

I realized that I posted this in the wrong location sorry 🙂

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[cubs87]

What exactly do you mean by " Non interventional (invasive) " ?

If you are talking about interventioinal cardiology (stents, angio, etc), I have heard that going to a MD internal med residency is more beneficial. But I am in the same boat as you...thinking of going this route. After the IM residency, you do a cardiology fellowship, then an interventional fellowship.

 

[Mcat35]

What exactly do you mean by " Non interventional (invasive) " ?

If you are talking about interventioinal cardiology (stents, angio, etc), I have heard that going to a MD internal med residency is more beneficial. But I am in the same boat as you...thinking of going this route. After the IM residency, you do a cardiology fellowship, then an interventional fellowship.

This is from about but ya

Invasive, Non-Interventional Cardiologists:
Invasive cardiologists do all the things non-invasive cardiologists can do, plus a bit more. Invasive cardiologists are trained in a diagnostic procedure called cardiac catheterization, which is used to find blockages of the arteries. Therefore, the non-invasive cardiologist’s time is split between office visits and time in the “cath lab” doing these catheterizations. If a blockage is found, and an additional procedure is needed, a non-interventional cardiologist can't intervene to fix the problem.
Therefore, the non-interventional cardiologist would refer the patient to an interventional cardiologist for the angioplasty or whatever procedure is needed.


I've stood in surgery for 6+ hours at a time seeing what Cardio thoracic surgeons do and it is some amazing work. I don't think I have the keen eyesight needed to be a surgeon. Therefore I'm trying to learn my options right now.

 

[DrBowtie]

TBH this invasive but non interventional seems likes worthless addition to a practice. Hire the guy who can do angioplasty at the moment a blockage is seen.

 

[Mcat35]

TBH this invasive but non interventional seems likes worthless addition to a practice. Hire the guy who can do angioplasty at the moment a blockage is seen.

Oh ic. I just feel that this is a nice field especially because you do internal med before it. So just in case you don't land a cardiology fellow then you still have internal med to fall back on.

 

[group_theory]

Oh ic. I just feel that this is a nice field especially because you do internal med before it. So just in case you don't land a cardiology fellow then you still have internal med to fall back on.

All cardiologists are Internal Medicine trained. If you want to pursue a cardiology fellowship, you have to do Internal Medicine first. The subfellowships (interventional, electrophysiology, etc) comes after cardiology fellowship.

There are 24 AOA accredited cardiology fellowships. There are 184 ACGME cardiology fellowships.

Cardiology fellowships are extremely competitive.


As for invasive non-interventional cardiology - you are subjecting your patient to the risk of a cardiac cath, but without the ability to intervene (meaning the patient has to undergo the same procedure again). It's like doing a colonoscopy, seeing a suspicious mass, but not being able to remove it because you're not trained. Or doing an EGD, seeing a bleeding ulcer, but not being able to intervene. For caths, you are subjecting your patient to anesthesia, increase dye load (and possible contrast induced nephropathy), risk of infection, bleeding, etc.

 

[Mcat35]

All cardiologists are Internal Medicine trained. If you want to pursue a cardiology fellowship, you have to do Internal Medicine first. The subfellowships (interventional, electrophysiology, etc) comes after cardiology fellowship.

There are 24 AOA accredited cardiology fellowships. There are 184 ACGME cardiology fellowships.

Cardiology fellowships are extremely competitive.


As for invasive non-interventional cardiology - you are subjecting your patient to the risk of a cardiac cath, but without the ability to intervene (meaning the patient has to undergo the same procedure again). It's like doing a colonoscopy, seeing a suspicious mass, but not being able to remove it because you're not trained. Or doing an EGD, seeing a bleeding ulcer, but not being able to intervene. For caths, you are subjecting your patient to anesthesia, increase dye load (and possible contrast induced nephropathy), risk of infection, bleeding, etc.

oh ic, thank you for all this info.

 

[calvinhobbes]

I know two DO's at the hospital I currently work at who are doing/accepted into GI and Pulm fellowships (really difficult programs to get into). Not the same as Cardio, but just wanted to say this -- ANYTHING is possible as a DO as long as you work hard and you're smart. The chief of IM is a DO at the NY hospital I'm in (and this is an "allopathic" or MD university hospital that has an MD school, etc).

Being trained as a doctor will be defined by what you do and how well you do it, not the letters next to your name, which, by the way, only signify that you graduated a medical school -- where you do your residency and train after that gives you the actual license to practice medicine and thus holds far more significance. So does word of mouth. If patients and other colleagues love you, they'll love you, not because of which school you went to.

 

[PeepsLove]

There are plenty of DO IM programs that have in house cardio fellowships and generally speaking they like to promote from within. I know of several programs that have 4 IM residents a year with pulm, GI, and card fellowships. Yes it's competitive but if you get into a program that has those fellowships (which I would highly recommend) it becomes a lot easier. Those attendings will get to know you and if they like you and you're good, you'll get the spot. In that regard the DO side is a little easier than the MD side.

 

[ShyRem]

You might get more responses if you type in regular English rather than "text speak". Many of us find those 1984-ish contractions difficult to read.

To answer your question, I agree with the above. There are DO cardiologists (I have worked with more than a few who are just wonderful), but no one would hire someone who can do caths but no intervention. If you're going to do a cath, you need to be able to fix what you may find.

 

[scpod]

....but no one would hire someone who can do caths but no intervention. If you're going to do a cath, you need to be able to fix what you may find.

I know of several hospitals in Florida who are able to do caths but they do not do stenting (or even an IVUS) or have cardiac surgeons on hand if problems develop. They have agreements with another hospital to take patients who need intervention emergently. The cardiologists there generally do not do interventional work at all. While I don't think you would ever get a great job if you can't fix the problem, I know you CAN get a job somewhere.

 

[ToldYouSo]

So there are non-interventional invasive and interventional invasive cardiologists? When your applying to different card fellowships do they specify or do you pick which type you want to practice?

 

[ShyRem]

I know of several hospitals in Florida who are able to do caths but they do not do stenting (or even an IVUS) or have cardiac surgeons on hand if problems develop. They have agreements with another hospital to take patients who need intervention emergently. The cardiologists there generally do not do interventional work at all. While I don't think you would ever get a great job if you can't fix the problem, I know you CAN get a job somewhere.

Glad to be proven wrong, but it just seems so.... awful for lack of a better word to do a procedure like a cath but not fix anything so the patient has to do it all over again (unless they find triple vessel disease that goes generally to bypass anyway).

It's like doing a laproscopic procedure for what looks like cholelithiasis or appendicitis, but then closing up the patient and calling in someone who can actually do the lap again and remove the offending organ another time. Just so.... wrong.

 

[FutureDoc01]

Glad to be proven wrong, but it just seems so.... awful for lack of a better word to do a procedure like a cath but not fix anything so the patient has to do it all over again (unless they find triple vessel disease that goes generally to bypass anyway).

It's like doing a laproscopic procedure for what looks like cholelithiasis or appendicitis, but then closing up the patient and calling in someone who can actually do the lap again and remove the offending organ another time. Just so.... wrong.

Agree!

 

[cubs87]

Just to add in my experiences with the whole non-invasive/interventional stuff:

The cath-lab I work at (8 rooms) has both 'regular' cardiologists and interventional guys employed. The 'regular' ones can do an angio, but cannot place a stent, and they do many many angios. The reasoning behind it is that our numbers show that only 30% or so end up needing intervention. If a blockage is found, they stick their head into the hallway and call over one of the interventional guys to place the stent.

 

[Longshanks]

Many of us find those 1984-ish contractions difficult to read.

I lol'd

 

[ShyRem]

Please tell me someone got the Orwell reference and didn't think of as just a date before most of y'all were born.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Please tell me someone got the Orwell reference and didn't think of as just a date before most of y'all were born.

👍

 

[IMDoc607]

After observing plenty of cardiac cath procedures, I feel that this is the route that i want to take eventually. After a DO internal med residency, are there opportunities for invasive cardiology fellows. Non interventional (invasive)

Also for those cardiology fellows out there, do you have to have elite/perfect vision to perform cath procedures? I was born with Amblyopia (lazy eye) of 1 eye, so even with corrective lenses, I will never be able to achieve a 20/20 vision in that eye.

I realized that I posted this in the wrong location sorry 🙂

These threads are getting so irritating. I know plenty of DO interventional cardiologists. People make a much bigger deal about this stuff than it actually is.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

These threads are getting so irritating. I know plenty of DO interventional cardiologists. People make a much bigger deal about this stuff than it actually is.

👍

Gotta love teh pre-meds.

 

[IMDoc607]

👍

Gotta love teh pre-meds.

They feed into this bull$hit that its this huge deal to be a DO. As if all doors are shut. Those who were in my class and scored well got what they wanted. It really is a simple concept. Work hard, be a good resident, and make your own connections.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

They feed into this bull$hit that its this huge deal to be a DO. As if all doors are shut. Those who were in my class and scored well got what they wanted. It really is a simple concept. Work hard, be a good resident, and make your own connections.

Unfortunately, the truth is not what they want. People need excuses and reasons for why they couldn't get what they want. Somehow, it makes them feel better about themselves since they've externalized the problem. However, the problem is coming from within.

 

[Longshanks]

Please tell me someone got the Orwell reference and didn't think of as just a date before most of y'all were born.

I totally did, Rem. Hence my [somewhat ironic] reply to your post. 😎

 

[Mcat35]

I totally did, Rem. Hence my [somewhat ironic] reply to your post. 😎

Please stop ridiculing me on my bad writing skills 😛

I managed a P on the writing portion of the MCAT, so I guess it is good enough for medical school.

 

[duswdav]

Please stop ridiculing me on my bad writing skills 😛

I managed a P on the writing portion of the MCAT, so I guess it is good enough for medical school.

Does the writing portion even count?

 

[Trogghunter]

They feed into this bull$hit that its this huge deal to be a DO. As if all doors are shut. Those who were in my class and scored well got what they wanted. It really is a simple concept. Work hard, be a good resident, and make your own connections.

Yup...i've also noticed that in the midwest DOs are much more favorably looked upon. In michigan there are a few very reputable hospitals that are basically DO only, and the MSU system has 20+ hospitals with many residency spots for every specialty for DOs... but i'm not sure about other states.

 

[Longshanks]

Please stop ridiculing me on my bad writing skills 😛

I managed a P on the writing portion of the MCAT, so I guess it is good enough for medical school.

I'm not ridiculing you. We're making a pop culture/literature reference. Maybe you need less writing and more reading 🙄.

 

[Mcat35]

I'm not ridiculing you. We're making a pop culture/literature reference. Maybe you need less writing and more reading 🙄.

haha no problem, got a 11 VR. I actually did a highschool project on George Orwell's 1984. I just don't remember enough to get that reference.