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Investment Banking as gap year
- Thread starter schrodingershat
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I think medical schools would look favorably upon the employment as long as you can provide a clear and reasonable answer as to why you want to make the switch into medicine. The only thing I'd be worried about is how much time you could take off work to travel for interviews.
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Take the job and work it, make sure you try to make a little time for community involvement (medical volunteering/shadowing is preferable- but really anything to develop compassion and instill service will look better than nothing).
This could be a good interview point for you though, I know an orthopedic surgeon who just this last week I had a conversation with about how he has friends who are investment bankers and were making millions a year while he was making about 4/hr during his residency. So you can highlight how you are going from a very lucrative career, to one where it wont be lucrative for years until your attending, but that is not an issue for you because you're not doing it for the money.
This could be a good interview point for you though, I know an orthopedic surgeon who just this last week I had a conversation with about how he has friends who are investment bankers and were making millions a year while he was making about 4/hr during his residency. So you can highlight how you are going from a very lucrative career, to one where it wont be lucrative for years until your attending, but that is not an issue for you because you're not doing it for the money.
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Hell yes, take it!
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Do you have all the pre-reqs for med school done (chem/biochem, biology)?? Make sure to check out schools you are interested in to confirm you have your pre-reqs all taken care of as a math major. And take the job, you'll definitely be different than the cookie cutter applicant. Cheers.
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Generally, finance is a great field to go into medicine from. It is proof positive that you're not merely doing this for the money, because you'll be making a lot less money as a doctor.
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Not in his case.
A starting IB salary would be considered "magnificent" if you were offered ~80K. And if you remain an analyst, after the crash, there haven't been many people making half a mil anymore. My cousin's worked for Deutsche for almost 8 years, and makes around 210K, a ridic amount of money still.
If you enter a field like Derm or Urology, you'll be sweating money. And yeah, there's the "but I have loans," "oh and overheads," and this and that. You'll most likely pay off your loans in 5 years if you're smart about it, and still be making a lot, lot more.
I appreciate you perspective Doug, but I think, still, 60%+ of doctors enter medicine for $$$. Might be a bad reason seeing as we're inching towards government control more and more. But if you peruse the facebook pages of most Male Medical students, you'll probably find a Lambo cover pic.
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ballin'
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100% go for it. You will likely be able to save a full year of med school tuition by living modestly for a year
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I met a (soon to be former) investment banker at one of my top-10 interviews, so clearly it won't keep you out. As long as you can demonstrate an interest in and commitment to medicine, I don't see why it wouldn't be a good idea. Keep in mind that investment banking usually involves 70-80 hour workdays (especially right out of college), so it might be hard to do volunteer work or shadowing on the side if that's your plan.
But you could also just do investment banking for two years and then do one year of a medically-related activity while you apply using some of the money you made as a banker to supplement the decrease in income that year.
But you could also just do investment banking for two years and then do one year of a medically-related activity while you apply using some of the money you made as a banker to supplement the decrease in income that year.
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uhh no. All starting ibanking analysts at the bulge brackets and elite boutiques will be making 120-150k their first year out of college. the more important ques is why would anyone want to work 80 hrs a week being an excel monkey during their gap year
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OK what's the chance of getting hired by McKinsey your first year out? Being realistic, even if you are given a job as an analyst, it'll be at a place like Deutsche.
Because Excel Monkies make bank, and it's a very satisfying thing to make bank when you get out of college.
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If you're at a feeder school, pretty good. Also pretty sure McKinsey is consulting, not ibanking.
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lol McK is a consulting firm. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Deutsche is a bulge bracket and pays their analysts the amount I said. It's not hard to get into IB if someone goes to a decent school. And no, its not very satisfying. Theres a reason why most people do their 2 years and leave
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Some leave for b school, party for 2 years on the company dollar, and then come back to move on up. It's nice 🙂. Not a bad way to pay for a year of med school.
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What? Even if you go to HYPMS, getting into McKinsey is a real challenge... Tons of people at each school apply for a maybe a 10 or less (or somewhere around the range) slots for each school at McKinsey. You need high GPA and something else attractive about you on your resume in most cases to even pass screening. Then you have to beat out the best of the best students at your top school in the case interviews...
Same applies to the other elite consulting firms (Bain, BCG).
Top IB firms (e.g., Goldman) are also similarly competitive to get into.
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Yeah, consulting jobs pay about the same as IB.
Many people leave premed for banking, so I wouldn't be so fast in saying it's not a rewarding career.
@MilkIsGood http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Deutsche-Bank-Analyst-Salaries-E3150_D_KO14,21.htm
For what it's worth, my cousins first year salary at Deutsche with bonuses hovered around 75K, right after the market crash. You'd have to put in at least 2-3 years to be making 150K...I think you know that. lol.
Many people leave premed for banking, so I wouldn't be so fast in saying it's not a rewarding career.
@MilkIsGood http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Deutsche-Bank-Analyst-Salaries-E3150_D_KO14,21.htm
For what it's worth, my cousins first year salary at Deutsche with bonuses hovered around 75K, right after the market crash. You'd have to put in at least 2-3 years to be making 150K...I think you know that. lol.
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Yeah, but people don't aim just for McKinsey. You have people aiming for McKinsey, Wyman, BCG, Bain, and others all at once, just like you have people aiming for Goldman, Wells Fargo, BoA, Morgan Stanley, and others all at once. Yeah, it's not guaranteed, and you do need a decent GPA + an internship in the field + strong interviewing skills, but I'd honestly say it's easier to get into a top level or upper mid level consulting or banking firm (again only from a feeders school) than it is to get into a top 20 med school.
Yeah, it's not easy, but it's nowhere near unimaginably difficult.
I think that at the very top, they're similar when you count in bonuses, but a mid tier ibanking gig will pay more than a mid tier consulting gig, based on what I've heard from my peers who are going those routes.
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Just chiming in... My SO will be starting at a middle market IB firm this summer (from a good but not target school) and he's making $80k base salary. With all bonuses factored in, he may be able to get to around $120k. However, people he knows starting at bulge bracket firms in New York aren't getting much higher than him, and not anywhere close to the numbers stated in previous posts. Of course it can all vary on the firm, but the days of huge salaries for analysts are long gone.
OP, I'm not in finance and I'm only a premed but I second the post about the time limits -- IB is a HUGE time commitment and you will have very very little free time. I wouldn't count on being able to do anything related to medicine, which could be a problem since it might indicate you're not interested in medicine. For a true career-changer, this wouldn't be as big of an issue, but for a pre-med taking a gap year, this could show a lack of commitment to medicine.
Edit: also, it seems like you only want to take one gap year. Analyst jobs are typically two year commitments, and even if you could quit halfway through, it would be pretty much impossible to apply while working. Analysts are lucky to get an entire weekend off -- there's very little chance you could take off on workdays for interviews or even have time to submit applications.
OP, I'm not in finance and I'm only a premed but I second the post about the time limits -- IB is a HUGE time commitment and you will have very very little free time. I wouldn't count on being able to do anything related to medicine, which could be a problem since it might indicate you're not interested in medicine. For a true career-changer, this wouldn't be as big of an issue, but for a pre-med taking a gap year, this could show a lack of commitment to medicine.
Edit: also, it seems like you only want to take one gap year. Analyst jobs are typically two year commitments, and even if you could quit halfway through, it would be pretty much impossible to apply while working. Analysts are lucky to get an entire weekend off -- there's very little chance you could take off on workdays for interviews or even have time to submit applications.
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First, compensation. You're smoking crack. The IB ramp is WAY (that should be in about 20 point font) faster than in consulting. If you can hack a decade in IB at a name firm you are making $500K-2+ million/year, depending on which side of the house you sit on and how interested you were in staying in NYC vs living in another market.
Most consultants at top firms a decade in are not doing better than $300K/yr. Some make a large multiple of that, sure, but I am talking meat of the curve for both careers.
What I want to convey, though, is that I have lived in both worlds, and for par candidates (raw academic horsepower and people skills) getting in to a top 20 medical school is way easier than getting a solid analyst (IB) or consultant position making >$85K straight out of school. (All bets are off and the above experience does not hold true if you come out of HYP undergrad. It's probably easier to land an analyst job than a top med school seat in that case simply because network effects are stronger in business than in medical admissions.) The work is way more interesting in consulting, however, and I pity investment bankers irrespective of their pay.
Source: me, who has been there and done that (admitted to top-tier med school / former consultant)
ETA: these are all rational results (competitiveness) if you just do some lifetime earnings potential/hour worked * lifestyle (or general "interesting" quotient) calculations for each field, allowing for risk in each variable.
Here's a whole bunch of nonsense to rationalize all that...
Medicine: [(medium lifetime earnings {largely due to huge opportunity cost}*lifetime employment guarantee)/(medium to high hours worked)]*(reasonable lifestyle and inherently interesting work) = medium competitiveness
Consulting: [(medium lifetime earnings)*(risky employment {many "fail out" of best consulting firms and end up in industry with menial jobs for middling pay})]/(medium hours worked*interesting work) = higher competitiveness
Investment banking: [(exceptional lifetime earnings)*(somewhat risky employment {most can hack it, majority of attrition due to structural unemployment viz. economic crashes)]/(insane workload*dull work) = highest competitiveness 2/2 highest denominator by a wide margin
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Getting into a T20 med school is "way" easier than getting IB? No.
First of all, there are way too many factors for admission into both to make such a broad statement. On one side of the spectrum, a good looking, sociable Ivy League kid of average intelligence will have an infinitely easier time breaking into IB than getting into a T20 med school. On the other, a socially awkward genius from a non target will have an easier time getting into a t20 than IB.
For a person of above average intelligence that goes to a good school and is not socially awkward, I would say breaking into IB and T20 are both impressive feats and saying one is categorically more impressive than the other is unjustifiable and obtuse. I can say, though, as a person from a non-hyp target school, I've met some absolute *****s who get into top tier IB, but every T20 med school kid I've met has been exceptional.
Edit: In regards to the last point, I believe it is much easier to force your way into IB with networking and work ethic than a top med school - can't fake an mcat score.
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agreed. my comment about "par applicants" represents the middle of both of the applicant curves.
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You're clearly much more well informed than I am about this, but yes, my comments were specifically towards feeders schools (HYP etc).
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I suppose I should have also addressed the OP:
Haven't worked in investment banking, but know many of them personally and professionally.
Take the job if you guys agree on a one year term (not going to be a traditional analyst role but you sound like you're on the quant side of things, a world I know little about and can easily see being amenable to shorter-term projects) and can get the time off to interview.
Haven't worked in investment banking, but know many of them personally and professionally.
Take the job if you guys agree on a one year term (not going to be a traditional analyst role but you sound like you're on the quant side of things, a world I know little about and can easily see being amenable to shorter-term projects) and can get the time off to interview.
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The reason it's harder to get into a top firm than a top med school is that firms only pull from the top undergrads. It's next to impossible to get into one of those firms coming from a state school unless you have solid connections, but if you come out of a state school with a 38 MCAT, 3.9 GPA, amazing EC's, and research, then you actually have a shot at Harvard, yale, columbia, etc med school. But most of those consulting firms would look at your undergrad school and toss your resume.
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^^ This. My gap year businessy job is veeeery tedious. In retrospect, I wish I'd found something more enjoyable. OP, maybe weigh your options of salary versus time for R&R and fun before med school. best of luck!
I might be responding to this a little too late, but oh well. IB is in fact a very big time commitment and very demoralizing (yes, even while being compensated well). I just got out of a 2.5 year stint as an investment banking analyst. Starting out, you will have zero free time for at least the first 6-8 months of your intended "gap year", your simply too slow at your work and you cant seem to ever catch up or learn everything fast enough. Even after you begin to catch on, the hours are very long (min 10-12 hour days) and you have very little free time. I had to resort to pulling all-nighters in my 2nd year just to shadow anes. residents who were on call.
Coming from someone who initially set out to do IB as a short-term career only to make money and potentially pursue medicine later, I advise against IB. If you cant see yourself doing IB, management consulting, private equity, hedge funds etc. as a long term career you will be absolutely miserable (like i was) when your working 80hrs a week. In my opinion its too demanding of a job to just do casually. Plus after making that much money (and only much more every other year afterwards), the thought of giving that standard of living up and becoming broke again makes things very complicated, I am currently struggling with that now.
Best of luck to you regardless.
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Once you do I-banking, you won't want to leave 😀
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Uh...no.
Every single analyst and new associate dreams/jokes/brags about how much money they're making so that they can quit their job early.
Almost no gap year taken to earn money is worthwhile, because the extra year now means one less year of peak earnings as a physician. Unless you will earn more than 200k-400k in the gap year, it doesn't make sense to work for the money. This also means that military or public service scholarships don't make sense, if done only for the money, because the money you get from the scholarship won't make up for the lost wages.
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Facebook photos of lambos speak more to the desires of the young male population in general, hell, the male population in general, not specifically the male medical student.
I'm sure that there are those who initially chase medicine for the money, but I would assume they would switch gears later on by realizing what a *****ic choice that is because the rational agent would
realize that time could be spent milking more money from another venue with a fraction of the effort required in medicine, if money indeed was the primary object. You don't need IB experience
to realize this.
Hey, see what I did there? Lambos... switch gears... ahhh s*it.
My point is don't use the lust for the lammy as grounds for judgment on the medical student population, because I suspect that is something that lies at the root of every male (and possibly female) beating heart.
Just watch an episode Top Gear to see what I mean.
Haha quite the opposite actually, a large majority of analysts rarely stick with it after a few years. Looking back, every friend I have who went into IB hated it.
