Involvement in Pro-life group

[Procyon]

Not trying to stir up trouble or anything by bringing up a topic like this. But will adcoms look at you differently if you're involved in a pro-life group on campus? Are they likely to ask you an abortion question at an interview anyway, regardless of whether or not they have a reason to after looking at your app? Should I just not worry about what adcoms think and do it if it's what I believe, or will it hurt my chances at acceptance down the line? Thanks for your help. 🙂

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[chman]

I would leave it off personally. It is just too risky IMO.

 

[Electronegative]

You can never know what kind of adcom will be interviewing you, I wouldn't mention about it in my amcas and during interviews.

EN

 

[Cramster]

I had the opportunity to participate in a pro-choice org. but I figured I probably wouldn't use it in my app so I didn't go through with it. Also I was afraid of being bombed by you no-choice guys... jk

 

[whimsical]

I'm in a pro-choice group, and it's on my application. I think it's something we might be asked about, but as long as you are able to reasonably articulate your beliefs it should be alright.

 

[Emikosma]

I'm in a pro-choice group, and it's on my application. I think it's something we might be asked about, but as long as you are able to reasonably articulate your beliefs it should be alright.

I agree with V. I don't think that adcoms are going to categorically look down applicants who are pro-life. Why should they? Chances are that at least a few if not more of the people looking at your app will have the same view points. It's not their job to judge you for your beliefs, as long as you can back those beliefs up with some sort of fact based knowledge on the subject.

 

[chman]

I agree with V. I don't think that adcoms are going to categorically look down applicants who are pro-life. Why should they? Chances are that at least a few if not more of the people looking at your app will have the same view points. It's not their job to judge you for your beliefs, as long as you can back those beliefs up with some sort of fact based knowledge on the subject.

Yea, when have people ever let their personal beliefs get in the way of what should be an objective decision...

 

[TDX]

I agree with V. I don't think that adcoms are going to categorically look down applicants who are pro-life. Why should they? Chances are that at least a few if not more of the people looking at your app will have the same view points. It's not their job to judge you for your beliefs, as long as you can back those beliefs up with some sort of fact based knowledge on the subject.

Why should they?

Well, what are the chances of someone who was involved in a "pro-life" group giving a patient objective advice on an unwanted pregnancy?

 

[Emikosma]

Yea, when have people ever let their personal beliefs get in the way of what should be an objective decision...

I'm just saying, there is no way that OP is alone in his/her beliefs. There may be an equal amount of adcoms who would look down on a pro-choice applicant. If you have put a lot of time and energy into volunteering with a pro-life organization, leaving it off of your application is going to leave a big hole.

 

[chman]

I'm just saying, there is no way that OP is alone in his/her beliefs. There may be an equal amount of adcoms who would look down on a pro-choice applicant. If you have put a lot of time and energy into volunteering with a pro-life organization, leaving it off of your application is going to leave a big hole.

I understand your thoughts, but I also think you are being idealistic. It would be nice if people did not let their political/social beliefs get in the way of these kinds of things, but the fact is they do. Assuming that the decision makers are evenly split on the issue is a gamble that I would not be willing to take. I also am willing to bet that more doctors are pro-choice than not.

 

[Emikosma]

I understand your thoughts, but I also think you are being idealistic. It would be nice if people did not let their political/social beliefs get in the way of these kinds of things, but the fact is they do. Assuming that the decision makers are evenly split on the issue is a gamble that I would not be willing to take. I also am willing to bet that more doctors are pro-choice than not.

I agree. I guess I'm just a mushy idealist! 🙄 Maybe OP could figure out a way to frame his experience with this group without putting the emphasis on it being pro-life? It would just suck to have to leave it out completely if it was a big part of his volunteer experience.

 

[morning]

It's interesting that there was a post like this before - except it was a pro-choice group - and everyone told the OP it wouldn't matter

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=9724739

 

[chman]

I agree. I guess I'm just a mushy idealist! 🙄 Maybe OP could figure out a way to frame his experience with this group without putting the emphasis on it being pro-life? It would just suck to have to leave it out completely if it was a big part of his volunteer experience.

It's interesting that there was a post like this before - except it was a pro-choice group - and everyone told the OP it wouldn't matter

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=9724739

I'll admit that I'm pro-choice, but I think I would advise against it either way. Perhaps I am cynical, I don't know. But I am also under the impression that there are more pro-choice doctors than not, but perhaps I am wrong about that too. That could be part of the reason for the outcome of that thread.

 

[mglavin]

depends on whether or not you feel comfortable talking about it, if so put it on your application, if not leave it off ...

 

[chman]

dude the process is a crap shoot very little objectiveness about it once you get to the interview stage

That's my whole point though, that it's not objective, even if it should be.

 

[mglavin]

lol sorry that bottle of wine has messed with my sarcasm detector my apologies lol

 

[chman]

lol sorry that bottle of wine has messed with my sarcasm detector my apologies lol

Hey, it's hard to pick up tone through writing. I am just going to start using; [sarcasm], because people rarely detect mine, and I rarely detect others'.

 

[softmed]

ADCOMs are highly educated medical people. The more educated you become about medicine, generally the more practical you become. Most doctors recognize how important the right to an abortion is regardless of their personal religious beliefs. This is especially the case for female doctors since it is a basic female right over her body.

If you were part of a pro-choice group, I'd probably say go for it. You're not going to get many zealots on an ADCOM.

But since you're were part of a pro-life group, I'd say leave it off. Especially since you're male, you're going to look like a male chauvinist to any women involved.

Just my take.

 

[ButImLETired]

ADCOMs are highly educated medical people. The more educated you become about medicine, generally the more practical you become. Most doctors recognize how important the right to an abortion is regardless of their personal religious beliefs. This is especially the case for female doctors since it is a basic female right over her body.

If you were part of a pro-choice group, I'd probably say go for it. You're not going to get many zealots on an ADCOM.

But since you're were part of a pro-life group, I'd say leave it off. Especially since you're male, you're going to look like a male chauvinist to any women involved.

Just my take.

Yeah, I don't know, it's a tough call. On the one hand, the more "academic" and liberal you are, theoretically the more open-minded you should be about others' viewpoints, and there are plenty of ways to marry a pro-life viewpoint with adequate clinical practice. Unlike what one of the posters implied, I think you can handle dealing with a patient with an unplanned pregnancy just fine...we're all supposed to do this the same way anyway. As long as you present the options to the patient in an unbiased manner and refer her out, you'll have done your job. So to some extent, I feel like as long as you can prove that you're a sensible, non-preachy, will-refer-patient sort of pro-lifer, then you're going to be just fine.

The issue is that they might judge you based on your beliefs before the interview stage and not get to see that you ARE a sensible person. So my thought is: avoid entering it into the primary (which goes everywhere) but feel free to talk about it at an interview if they ask you about extracurriculars as long as you can talk about it in an open-minded, non-preachy way. If you think anyone who gets an abortion is going to hell and never tell your patient that option or try to affect her decision, then forget it altogether.

Also, the way you capitalize "adcom" makes me think that it's some kind of osteopathic school 😉. Amazing Destiny College of Osteopathic Medicine?

 

[TDX]

Yeah, I don't know, it's a tough call. On the one hand, the more "academic" and liberal you are, theoretically the more open-minded you should be about others' viewpoints, and there are plenty of ways to marry a pro-life viewpoint with adequate clinical practice. Unlike what one of the posters implied, I think you can handle dealing with a patient with an unplanned pregnancy just fine...we're all supposed to do this the same way anyway. As long as you present the options to the patient in an unbiased manner and refer her out, you'll have done your job. So to some extent, I feel like as long as you can prove that you're a sensible, non-preachy, will-refer-patient sort of pro-lifer, then you're going to be just fine.

Wouldn't involvement in a pro-life group pretty much rule out the possibility of being the non-preachy kind of pro-lifer? Since, well, preaching is pretty much exactly what pro-life groups generally do...

Involvement in a group promoting the cause makes it more than just a private, personal belief.

 

[Perrotfish]

ADCOMs are highly educated medical people. The more educated you become about medicine, generally the more practical you become. Most doctors recognize how important the right to an abortion is regardless of their personal religious beliefs. This is especially the case for female doctors since it is a basic female right over her body.

If you were part of a pro-choice group, I'd probably say go for it. You're not going to get many zealots on an ADCOM.

But since you're were part of a pro-life group, I'd say leave it off. Especially since you're male, you're going to look like a male chauvinist to any women involved.

Just my take.

-There is nothing about having a higher education that makes people more or less likely to compromise their principles in the name of expediency (being 'practical' as you put it). Cowardice requires no diploma.

-ADCOMs are actually, at least in my experience, a pretty conservative bunch. Medicine is a pretty conservative profession even now, and a good chunk of ADCOMs are made up of curmudgeonly physicians from a generation you normally only see in nursing homes. You may find your values are out of whack with theirs.

-No one on the pro-life side of the house views abortion as a 'basic female right over her body'. The entire pro-life argument is based on the idea that when a physician treats a pregnant woman that physician is responsible for two human lives rather than one. The physician cannot ethically give the mother's body a greater priority than the child's any more than he could ethically endanger the life of one conjoined twin based on the request of the other.

-There are absolutely ADCOM members who are strongly pro-life. Your planned parenthood experience could damage your application every bit as much as membership in a pro-life group.

 

[ijn]

Is involvement in a pro-creationist group seen as a negative by most Adcoms?

 

[jtroost]

I think there is a big difference between being in a pro-choice group and being in a pro-life group for a future doctor. Pro-choice people simply believe that a woman should have a choice, not that a woman should have an abortion. So a pro-choice doctor would have no problem being objective with a patient with an unwanted pregnancy. Pro-lifers believe a woman shouldn’t have a choice on abortion, and so probably wouldn’t able to advise a patient on her options in an unbiased way. If a doctor was able to put aside pro-life views in order to fully inform the patient, then it would be fine. But would someone that feels so strongly about the issue that they were involved in a pro-life organization be able to put their personal beliefs aside in this situation? Its questionable, so I would think some adcoms could be concerned. I know that I would not want my doctor involving their personal beliefs in my medical choices. Of course, adcoms that are pro-life would probably look on your participation in the group favorably.

 

[theVster]

I think it's naive to believe this won't be looked on favorably or poorly by some ADCOM member in the schools you're applying to. Most of the time they'll likely be subjective but it's not worth the risk. Leave it off the application or at least tone it down.

 

[nogolfinsnow]

Not trying to stir up trouble or anything by bringing up a topic like this. But will adcoms look at you differently if you're involved in a pro-life group on campus? Are they likely to ask you an abortion question at an interview anyway, regardless of whether or not they have a reason to after looking at your app? Should I just not worry about what adcoms think and do it if it's what I believe, or will it hurt my chances at acceptance down the line? Thanks for your help. 🙂

I think it partly depends on what your involvement entailed. Did you stand outside planned parenthood and protest and threaten, or did you work in the community to reduce the number of unwanted/unintended pregnancies? I interviewed an applicant who was pro-life but he had a nuanced explanation and was also able to see the other side of the story. The issue is so complicated that being able to explain your position in a well thought-out manner could be helpful during an interview. Also, there will be people on the admissions committee who are NOT physicians. There will be PhDs, people with masters degrees, etc. Just wanted to throw that out there for everyone.

 

[Lokhtar]

You are allowed to have personal beliefs. As long as it doesn't get in the way of practicing medicine, and you are articulate about explaining them - I don't think it's an issue.

There are plenty of pro-life doctors.

 

[Doodledog]

Not trying to stir up trouble or anything by bringing up a topic like this. But will adcoms look at you differently if you're involved in a pro-life group on campus? Are they likely to ask you an abortion question at an interview anyway, regardless of whether or not they have a reason to after looking at your app? Should I just not worry about what adcoms think and do it if it's what I believe, or will it hurt my chances at acceptance down the line? Thanks for your help. 🙂

I am an adcom member and strongly pro-choice. I would never look down on or otherwise lower my evaluation of someone for including all of their activities which are legal in the activities part of their application. This includes things I personally do not support. I have seen pro-life activities listed in innumerable applications I have reviewed and whereas I cannot speak for every single adcom member, I have never heard this issue come up in any way on either side of the issue. IMHO, there is no problem at all with including this.

 

[Procyon]

Thanks for your good advice and perspectives, everyone. To be honest, I haven't really done much with the group yet; so far I've just went to a couple meetings. It was more of a hypothetical "Should I become more involved..." question.

I was doing some searches, and it seems there are various national organizations of practicing pro-choice/pro-life physicians, so there's definitely plenty of doctors on both sides of the fence. Although I guess that's to be expected with such a polarizing debate.

 

[Perrotfish]

Thanks for your good advice and perspectives, everyone. To be honest, I haven't really done much with the group yet; so far I've just went to a couple meetings. It was more of a hypothetical "Should I become more involved..." question.

I was doing some searches, and it seems there are various national organizations of practicing pro-choice/pro-life physicians, so there's definitely plenty of doctors on both sides of the fence. Although I guess that's to be expected with such a polarizing debate.

Well you should definitly become involved. It's your belief. The question is should you bother listing it on your applicaton.