The UC Marginalized Group question is good in theory, poor in practice

[sarcasmrules]

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A lot of people just adapt and thrive despite being in a marginalized group and will have a hard time realizing how disadvantaged they are/were without comparing their situation to more affluent groups or without a background in public health or social work. Most of us have backgrounds in biology, so not really helpful.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Goro]

Are you a member of a marginalized group?

 

[sarcasmrules]

Are you a member of a marginalized group?

Yes and I only realized how badly I was impacted because I'm in a public health research project. Without it, I wouldn't be able to answer that question as well as I could with the insight the project afforded me.

 

[Goro]

Yes and I only realized how badly I was impacted because I'm in a public health research project. Without it, I wouldn't be able to answer that question as well as I could with the insight the project afforded me.

Not everyone is as fortuitous as you.

 

[sarcasmrules]

Not everyone is as fortuitous as you.

Exactly, that's why I said these questions are good in theory, poor in practice. 😉

 

[Mr.Smile12]

A lot of people just adapt and thrive despite being in a marginalized group and will have a hard time realizing how disadvantaged they are/were without comparing their situation to more affluent groups or without a background in public health or social work. Most of us have backgrounds in biology, so not really helpful.

Just my 2 cents.

Maybe not helpful for the writers, but it helps the evaluators and adcoms. A medical degree is not an advanced biology degree.

It's a reflection essay prompt, not a grant proposal.

(Note: I'm not disagreeing with the OP.)

 

[sarcasmrules]

Maybe not helpful for the writers, but it helps the evaluators and adcoms. A medical degree is not an advanced biology degree.

It's a reflection essay prompt, not a grant proposal.

(Note: I'm not disagreeing with the OP.)

Sorry, when I said "us", I meant applicants. They can't really explain how they were marginalized or how it affected their healthcare or education if they don't know how the healthcare or education system works on the inside.

 

[eigen]

Most of us have backgrounds in biology, so not really helpful.

This is one of the reasons that some of the stronger applicants I've worked with are those that come from non-science backgrounds. The broader training coupled with the necessary pre-requisites is a good mixture of strengths.

 

[ddhopeful]

Belonging to a marginalized group is a double-edged sword, as far as med school application is concerned. On one hand, you face the struggles and have to adapt to thrive as OP mentioned but on the other hand, you have a personal story to discuss elaborately in your essay, secondaries and interviews.

If you belonged to an affluent or other non-marginalized group, you may have enjoyed a comfortable life but you have to actively look to identify marginalization in your own life journey. Even if there are instances of marginalization, they are unlikely to be as substantial as your experiences belonging to a marginalized group.

 

[deleted1193118]

This is just my personal opinion, but I think it's a good question to ask directly. I think that if you have experienced substantial systemic disadvantage it's good to have a truly optional question in which to address it plainly, and that it's not hard to point out what aspects of your identity were targeted.

I also think its a good tool for selection because recognizing and accounting for social determinants of health seems important in providing care to patients, it makes sense that the UC system would want to admit students who are able to recognize and articulately describe how that affects them and their communities, and possibly what the medical establishment can do better to serve that group of people.

just my thoughts : )

 

[LizzyM]

Sorry, when I said "us", I meant applicants. They can't really explain how they were marginalized or how it affected their healthcare or education if they don't know how the healthcare or education system works on the inside.

I think that you underestimate your fellow applicants who aren't as privileged as you are to have had a public health education. Marginalized applicants who are bio majors are not clueless about how they have been marginalized.

 

[ddhopeful]

This is just my personal opinion, but I think it's a good question to ask directly. I think that if you have experienced substantial systemic disadvantage it's good to have a truly optional question in which to address it plainly, and that it's not hard to point out what aspects of your identity were targeted.

I also think its a good tool for selection because recognizing and accounting for social determinants of health seems important in providing care to patients, it makes sense that the UC system would want to admit students who are able to recognize and articulately describe how that affects them and their communities, and possibly what the medical establishment can do better to serve that group of people.

just my thoughts : )

MDs go into different specialties. SDOH is most important in primary care settings. I don’t think it receives or needs to receive as much consideration in surgical specialties. Since medical school education needs to be prepare students to succeed in a wide range of specialties, schools should not overemphasize SDOH “abilities” in admissions.

 

[eigen]

I don’t think it receives or needs to receive as much consideration in surgical specialties. Since medical school education needs to be prepare students to succeed in a wide range of specialties, schools should not overemphasize SDOH “abilities” in admissions.

Could you share some literature on why you think SDOH only matters to primary care?

Because everything I've seen suggests it applies to healthcare, broadly, and is something every doctor should be familiar with. And here's a piece from the American College of Surgeons suggests that it's quite important to surgery, and that surgeons should be doing more to take action.

Social determinants of health and surgery: An overview

Describes the social determinants of health such as economics, environment, education, and access to care and examines these factors within a surgical quality improvement framework.

www.facs.org

 

[ddhopeful]

Could you share some literature on why you think SDOH only matters to primary care?

Because everything I've seen suggests it applies to healthcare, broadly, and is something every doctor should be familiar with.

I never said it only matters to primary care. I said it matters less in surgical specialties because patients are under anesthesia.

You are correct, every doctor should be familiar with it. But using it as a major factor to decide admissions is going a bit too far, in my opinion.

 

[eigen]

I never said it only matters to primary care. I said it matters less in surgical specialties because patients are under anesthesia.

... Why do social determinants of health not matter if a patient is under anesthesia?

At the moment, you're doing a great job of convincing me that we're not doing enough to prepare students interested in medicine to be able to understand SDOH and how important they are.

But using it as a major factor to decide admissions is going a bit too far, in my opinion.

Why is it less important than other core competencies, in your mind?

 

[ddhopeful]

... Why do social determinants of health not matter if a patient is under anesthesia?

At the moment, you're doing a great job of convincing me that we're not doing enough to prepare students interested in medicine to be able to understand SDOH and how important they are.

... Why do social determinants of health not matter if a patient is under anesthesia?

At the moment, you're doing a great job of convincing me that we're not doing enough to prepare students interested in medicine to be able to understand SDOH and how important they are.


Why is it less important than other core competencies, in your mind?

Because you are not going to know anything more from a sedated patient than what physicians pre-op or post-op would/can know.

 

[eigen]

Because you are not going to know anything more from a sedated patient than what physicians pre-op or post-op would/can know.

Not sure what you're getting at here. Are you suggesting surgeons don't need to know anything about the background or health of their patient or consider how those things might effect recovery?

 

[Goro]

Belonging to a marginalized group is a double-edged sword, as far as med school application is concerned. On one hand, you face the struggles and have to adapt to thrive as OP mentioned but on the other hand, you have a personal story to discuss elaborately in your essay, secondaries and interviews.

If you belonged to an affluent or other non-marginalized group, you may have enjoyed a comfortable life but you have to actively look to identify marginalization in your own life journey. Even if there are instances of marginalization, they are unlikely to be as substantial as your experiences belonging to a marginalized group.

Please restrain your ignorance of medical school class demographics, and of the admissions process.

A surprising number of the children of clinicians make up med school classes.

At my school, the students definitely have more Teslas than the Faculty!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

MDs go into different specialties. SDOH is most important in primary care settings. I don’t think it receives or needs to receive as much consideration in surgical specialties. Since medical school education needs to be prepare students to succeed in a wide range of specialties, schools should not overemphasize SDOH “abilities” in admissions.

 

[ddhopeful]

Please restrain your ignorance of medical school class demographics, and of the admissions process.

A surprising number of the children of clinicians make up med school classes.

At my school, the students definitely have more Teslas than the Faculty!

Please do not restrain using your reading comprehension ability. My comment is not about medical school class demographics or the admissions process. It purely contrasts the marginalized group vs the non-marginalized group.

 

[chilly_md]

This thread is quickly going nowhere. Please remember to treat each other with respect.

Closing.