Iowa, carver (full tuition) vs CWRU (1/4 tuition scholarship)

[throughandthrough242]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Case:
Pros:
*loved the curriculum and school on both visits
*better reputation, match list
*better research focus
*Cleveland seems interesting
*Pass/fail

Cons:
*about 200k more expensive
*only slightly more prestigious than Iowa.

Iowa:
Pros:
*Iowa is closer to home
*full tuition scholarship
*Supposedly a pretty relaxed place to be

Cons:
*wasnt really impressed on visit
*worse reputation, match list
*less research focus
*Graded pre-clinical

I want a career in academic medicine/public health and I feel like Case suits those goals better, but full tuition is hard to walk away from, and I don’t want to be irresponsible when the education probably isn’t significantly different.

 

[WIMNFamilyMed]

I interviewed at Iowa, don’t know a thing about case so I can’t elaborste on any pro con points you made. However, I do definitely agree with your last sentence summary - I couldn’t go to a school that would put me in a similar end game for over twice the annual household income of my two working parents. I would have to do Iowa but everyone is different.

 

[throughandthrough242]

Yeah I agree. Just worried about what is best for my career goals.

 

[mcdocky]

Yeah I agree. Just worried about what is best for my career goals.

The school you attend doesn’t define your career. It’s what you make of the experience that sets you up. It’s probably easier at case, but the question is: is easier but 200k + interest more important to you than harder but free?

I’d pick free in your case since the only schools that justify taking on more debt for are the top 5’s in my book (and maybe ucla for its sexy location)

 

[Bryant088]

I vote Iowa. Case is not worth passing up a full-tuition scholarship at Iowa.

 

[fluffysquirrel]

try haggling for more financial aid from case

 

[throughandthrough242]

The school you attend doesn’t define your career. It’s what you make of the experience that sets you up. It’s probably easier at case, but the question is: is easier but 200k + interest more important to you than harder but free?

I’d pick free in your case since the only schools that justify taking on more debt for are the top 5’s in my book (and maybe ucla for its sexy location)

Can you clarify what you mean by it being 'easier at case'

 

[WIMNFamilyMed]

Can you clarify what you mean by it being 'easier at case'

Name recognition of case might be a tiny tiny bump in getting you into a better residency but unlikely a career changing, 200k life changing influence.

 

[sadkmladkds]

I would go with the full scholarship congrats

 

[ejay19955]

200k as a pre-med sounds like a lot. And it is right that after interest the total amount to pay back would go up to like >$300k. But at the end it's only like 2 years of attending salary. FWIW there are people who take 2 gap years to get into a better med school
.
How are your living expenses going to be paid though? It's nothing to sneeze at. You'll still have to take out the loan if no family support, and that can go all the way to >$100k including the interest.

So it actually kind of depends on what specialty you want to go into.

FM, Neuro, IM, PM&R, etc. -> Go to Carver
Neurosurg, Plastics, ENT, etc. -> Go to Case (Case has a phenomenal match list for surgical subspecialties. That said I didn't even apply to Carver so I don't know how their match list is. Would bet that it can't beat Case, though.).

Given your interest in public health / academia, may I presumptuously assume that you don't want to do a surgical subspecialty? I know it's really too early to tell. And it's not like matching into a surgical subspecialty is impossible from Carver. It's just better at Case.
I'd go to Carver if I were you with what I know now, but I think I would've chosen Case as a pre-med despite the full tuition at Carver because I didn't know much back then.

tl;dr: I'd choose Carver

 

[sadkmladkds]

Case's matches is a little artificially inflated by the fact that they include CCLM in their match list

 

[Bryant088]

Case's matches is a little artificially inflated by the fact that they include CCLM in their match list

The impact of that is negligible. Even when you take the CCLCM matches out, the match list is still quite impressive.

 

[rball]

First of all congrats OP, some great choices on the table. First of all, I agree with ejay that while cost is a big deal here, don't make a decision solely based on that. 200K is a lot of money, but you will be able to pay it back as an attending. If the two schools are comparable in your eyes, cost becomes a big deal as a kind of tiebreaker, but if you clearly prefer Case, then I think I'd lean Case.

Ejay also makes a good point about the specialty consideration; just want to add to that though, Carver actually has some absolute top notch programs in a few competitive specialties (e.g. ortho, optho, ENT). Because connections at your home program and connections with big name faculty in those fields can help with matching, going to Carver if you're interested in those fields would actually be a good choice.

As far as match list goes, I agree with Bryant, CCLM has a negligible impact on Case's overall match list. Case matches are fantastic, and Case has a very strong national reputation in medicine, regardless of CCLM.

I think it's tough to go wrong either way. If you're undecided on your specialty choice and like both schools almost equally, I'd lean Carver. If you happen to want to go into primary care or a specialty that Carver has a strong program for, I'd lean Carver. If you vastly preferred Case and want to keep as many doors open as possible in academic medicine, I'd lean Case. But congrats again.

 

[Entadus]

First of all congrats OP, some great choices on the table. First of all, I agree with ejay that while cost is a big deal here, don't make a decision solely based on that. 200K is a lot of money, but you will be able to pay it back as an attending. If the two schools are comparable in your eyes, cost becomes a big deal as a kind of tiebreaker, but if you clearly prefer Case, then I think I'd lean Case.

Ejay also makes a good point about the specialty consideration; just want to add to that though, Carver actually has some absolute top notch programs in a few competitive specialties (e.g. ortho, optho, ENT). Because connections at your home program and connections with big name faculty in those fields can help with matching, going to Carver if you're interested in those fields would actually be a good choice.

As far as match list goes, I agree with Bryant, CCLM has a negligible impact on Case's overall match list. Case matches are fantastic, and Case has a very strong national reputation in medicine, regardless of CCLM.

I think it's tough to go wrong either way. If you're undecided on your specialty choice and like both schools almost equally, I'd lean Carver. If you happen to want to go into primary care or a specialty that Carver has a strong program for, I'd lean Carver. If you vastly preferred Case and want to keep as many doors open as possible in academic medicine, I'd lean Case. But congrats again.

For future readers struggling with similar decisions... saddling yourself with $200 grand of unnecessary debt is definitely 'going wrong'. That would just be plain old irresponsible, and dare I say, stupid. It will end up costing you a lot more than that when you take time and interest into account, and this is not monopoly money.

For someone who had the money to pay cash for Case, fine, it would be an acceptable decision to go there. But taking on unnecessary debt? Sounds like a recipe for lots of additional stress/headaches, delayed gratification, and financial servitude for a couple extra years. No thanks

 

[rball]

For future readers struggling with similar decisions... saddling yourself with $200 grand of unnecessary debt is definitely 'going wrong'. That would just be plain old irresponsible, and dare I say, stupid. It will end up costing you a lot more than that when you take time and interest into account, and this is not monopoly money.

For someone who had the money to pay cash for Case, fine, it would be an acceptable decision to go there. But taking on unnecessary debt? Sounds like a recipe for lots of additional stress/headaches, delayed gratification, and financial servitude for a couple extra years. No thanks

To each his own I guess. I'm only a med student, but I've talked to a bunch of attendings about this. Yeah if you're going into internal medicine (as you appear to be), then taking on debt is not really a smart choice (which is why I recommended the OP to go Carver for primary care). But if you're thinking about something more competitive in academic medicine/public health, then pedigree absolutely matters. Plus the OP said he liked the school much better than Iowa. So not paying attention to those factors would be, as you say, "plain old irresponsible, and dare I say, stupid."

I think you're doing a big disservice to readers by telling them to blindly follow the $$$ without accounting for any other factors. It's lazy advice. Debt is a very important consideration that will affect your life, but you're not going to be in "financial servitude" as a physician making 6 figures; that's pretty laughable actually.

 

[Entadus]

To each his own I guess. I'm only a med student, but I've talked to a bunch of attendings about this. Yeah if you're going into internal medicine (as you appear to be), then taking on debt is not really a smart choice (which is why I recommended the OP to go Carver for primary care). But if you're thinking about something more competitive in academic medicine/public health, then pedigree absolutely matters. Plus the OP said he liked the school much better than Iowa. So not paying attention to those factors would be, as you say, "plain old irresponsible, and dare I say, stupid."

I think you're doing a big disservice to readers by telling them to blindly follow the $$$ without accounting for any other factors. It's lazy advice. Debt is a very important consideration that will affect your life, but you're not going to be in "financial servitude" as a physician making 6 figures; that's pretty laughable actually.

It's admirable that you gave such detailed advice to the OP, and I commend you for thinking this through and pointing out that some people's career goals depend on pedigree.

I'll just add that (the majority of) doctors are notoriously bad with finances. I'd recommend resources like WhiteCoatInvestor, actual financial websites/books, and diligent research. Having large medical debt opens you up to all sorts of risks, which while unlikely, are still possible. With 6 figure debt, you had better hope that your life and career goes according to plan! (I.e. don't fail out of school, don't have any accidents, be capable of working full time after residency, etc)

 

[rball]

Yep that's true Entadus. Didn't mean to antagonize you, I just too often see people on this site blindly say to follow the $$$ when that may or may not be in the individual's best interests, and that's really frustrating to me as I've seen peers (and even residents/attendings) do that and sorely regret it. I absolutely agree WhiteCoatInvestor is a good resource, and minimizing debt should always be an important consideration.