Iowa's match list is pretty impressive

[kapakapa]

Hey guys, I know that many of you are not looking at Iowa as a medical school. However, as a current accepted applicant and deciding between other schools, I was pretty impressed with their match list. Ortho at UCLA, Rad onc at Wash U, Radiology at Penn and NYU, etc. See for yourself.

http://www.medicine.uiowa.edu/osac/programsrecords/documents/2008_Table1.pdf

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[AKu2984]

Shhhh....don't tell anyone . I'm currently on the waitlist and need more people to withdraw...

But, yes, they do have quite the impressive match list. If you don't mind me asking, where else have you been accepted? Are you instate or OOS?

 

[riceman04]

Just about done with my prelim research on the school and I actually like everything about it except the curriculum (PBL...) and location. Their student support network in amazing!!!


Does anyone know about any community outreach initiatives implemented by the College of Medicine? I know of the student-run Community Outreach Program (course) and the mobile clinic...I am actually looking for something sponsored by the college itself.

 

[flip26]

I have been impressed by every match list I have seen.

You could take the name of the med schools off these lists and draw them out of a hat, and it would be hard to figure out the differences in match lists with few exceptions (schools like Harvard and Stanford who keep a ton of their own tend to stand out in that regard)...

 

[AKu2984]

I have been impressed by every match list I have seen.

You could take the name of the med schools off these lists and draw them out of a hat, and it would be hard to figure out the differences in match lists with few exceptions (schools like Harvard and Stanford who keep a ton of their own tend to stand out in that regard)...

True. Match lists aren't the most important thing when determining which school to go to, because the vast majority are impressive.

 

[horhay1241]

I also think there are a lot of top notch specialty programs that us premeds might not even be aware of. I don't like to put too much emphasis on match lists at this point..although it is nice when you see a bunch of Hopkins or Harvard spots on there

 

[diosa428]

I also think there are a lot of top notch specialty programs that us premeds might not even be aware of. I don't like to put too much emphasis on match lists at this point..although it is nice when you see a bunch of Hopkins or Harvard spots on there

With that said... Iowa actually has top programs in Ophtho and ENT.

 

[nevercold]

So, you all aren't interpreting rank lists correctly. The top third of the list doesn't matter all that much. Top students at any school will get into great programs or competitive specialties. This is especially true for state schools, where there are always students who could have gotten into any medical school but chose to stay in-state for tuition purposes. What really matters is the bottom third of the list. If you struggle in medical school or if you are not at the top of your class, will the strength of your program still help you get a good residency spot? That's what you should be thinking about as you look at a residency list.

 

[OncDoc19]

So, you all aren't interpreting rank lists correctly. The top third of the list doesn't matter all that much. Top students at any school will get into great programs or competitive specialties. This is especially true for state schools, where there are always students who could have gotten into any medical school but chose to stay in-state for tuition purposes. What really matters is the bottom third of the list. If you struggle in medical school or if you are not at the top of your class, will the strength of your program still help you get a good residency spot? That's what you should be thinking about as you look at a residency list.

I agree with this. I happen to personally know the person who matched rad onc at WashU. He's an MSTP and the smartest person I know. I mean just flat out brilliant.

Iowa is a good school but it's certainly not an elite school. If you want a good residency from Iowa you are really going to have to work your *** off to get noticed at schools out of the region. Even the person who matched rad onc to WashU has advised me to go to Penn because he said he felt like he was the token non-top 10 med school person at his interviews.

I would say the much more important thing to consider about Iowa is location. I am an Iowa Undergrad and have lived in Iowa City for 5 years now and am bored out out my mind! If you are married/engaged and thinking about kids in med school, Iowa is perfect. Otherwise, if you need more than 4 restaurants and 1 non-smoky bar with people over the age of 20 to remain entertained go somewhere else. Also, its cold and the weather can really suck (this winter has been a case in point). I swear if it snows one more time I'm going to scream!!

 

[kapakapa]

No offense OncDoc, but you don't know what you are talking about. If you look at the last 2 years of Iowa's match list, people have matched at NYU and Michigan for derm; Duke, Penn, Michigan, NYU, and Wash U for radiology, this year 5 people matched into Johns Hopkins, etc. I have a friend in the medical school (much like you) and he told me that all these people were not stellar (but really good) candidates. He also said that when he went on out of region interviews, people at top programs commented on how great Iowa's program is.

Now, I agree Iowa (by name) is not one of the elite programs, but I think if a person studies hard (much like at other programs), he/she will match into awesome programs (case in point as I mentioned above). I also go to undergrad at Iowa and had an awesome time. Loved the downtown scene. Maybe you did not have the same amazing college experience as I did. Either way, let people decide on the Iowa city instead of bad mouthing it. Anyway, good luck in making your decision.

 

[Wylde]

No offense OncDoc, but you don't know what you are talking about. If you look at the last 2 years of Iowa's match list, people have matched at NYU and Michigan for derm; Duke, Penn, Michigan, NYU, and Wash U for radiology, this year 5 people matched into Johns Hopkins, etc. I have a friend in the medical school (much like you) and he told me that all these people were not stellar (but really good) candidates. He also said that when he went on out of region interviews, people at top programs commented on how great Iowa's program is.

Now, I agree Iowa (by name) is not one of the elite programs, but I think if a person studies hard (much like at other programs), he/she will match into awesome programs (case in point as I mentioned above). I also go to undergrad at Iowa and had an awesome time. Loved the downtown scene. Maybe you did not have the same amazing college experience as I did. Either way, let people decide on the Iowa city instead of bad mouthing it. Anyway, good luck in making your decision.

I think you completely missed OncDoc's point!

His point: No matter what school you go to, if you graduate at the top of your program you will probably enter a very respectable residency location/specialty. The quality of a match list should be based on the the residencies of the people at the BOTTOM of the class, not the top (ie not the kids who matched at "NYU and Michigan for derm").

edit: I guess it was originally nevercold's point, but anyways the idea is too look at the bottom, not the top.

 

[diosa428]

No offense OncDoc, but you don't know what you are talking about. If you look at the last 2 years of Iowa's match list, people have matched at NYU and Michigan for derm; Duke, Penn, Michigan, NYU, and Wash U for radiology, this year 5 people matched into Johns Hopkins, etc. I have a friend in the medical school (much like you) and he told me that all these people were not stellar (but really good) candidates. He also said that when he went on out of region interviews, people at top programs commented on how great Iowa's program is.

If you read nevercold's post, he did just point out that looking at the bottom third of the list was more important than looking at the top third. Med students from every school in the country will match at some top programs.

 

[OncDoc19]

No offense OncDoc, but you don't know what you are talking about. If you look at the last 2 years of Iowa's match list, people have matched at NYU and Michigan for derm; Duke, Penn, Michigan, NYU, and Wash U for radiology, this year 5 people matched into Johns Hopkins, etc. I have a friend in the medical school (much like you) and he told me that all these people were not stellar (but really good) candidates. He also said that when he went on out of region interviews, people at top programs commented on how great Iowa's program is.

Now, I agree Iowa (by name) is not one of the elite programs, but I think if a person studies hard (much like at other programs), he/she will match into awesome programs (case in point as I mentioned above). I also go to undergrad at Iowa and had an awesome time. Loved the downtown scene. Maybe you did not have the same amazing college experience as I did. Either way, let people decide on the Iowa city instead of bad mouthing it. Anyway, good luck in making your decision.

You are still talking about the top students in their program. Penn's MSTP match list alone beats Iowa's match list. That is the point. As another poster said there is always going to be a few great matches at every school. I really have to disagree with you when you say that Iowa is not by name an elite program. It is not an elite program, by name or anything else. Again, it's a good school, but it just isn't in the same league as Harvard, Hopkins, Penn, UCSF, Michigan, etc.

I'm glad you enjoyed your undergrad experience here. We obviously have very different ideas of what it means to have fun. I became bored of the partying/binge drinking scene very quickly and yearn for a more sophisticated academic environment. I would agree that I had wonderful educational opportunities and I have managed to find friends here who are interested in more than beer, football, and going to Jake's on a Tuesday. I understand that for some that this their ideal college experience, but it is not mine. I do however have the right to critique Iowa City as I see fit. I certainly did not "bad mouth" it. I simply shared my opinion of the city and who might fit in best there. By the way, even the MSTP sells the program to students based on the family-friendliness of Iowa City, so apparently I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

[kapakapa]

Look, I just posted Iowa's match list because people were going to some impressive programs away from Iowa. Iowa has some great programs (ENT, optho, ortho, neurosurgery) that consistently rank high in the US News world report rankings. So, many people will want to stay at Iowa instead of going somewhere else. Besides, you have to also consider location too (like you suggested). Some people want to stay in Iowa or midwest for family reasons hence will rank programs higher in the region. They might turn down offers from "better" programs. For example, my friend told me of one of the residents at Iowa who got interview offers from Harvard, Penn, columbia, etc. for residency but chose Iowa for family reasons. My point being that the students in the lower part of the class might have only applied to midwest programs.

I wasn't so much talking about the drinking scene. Believe it or not, Iowa city has some cultural events too that one can attend. Yes, it's not the same as a big city but it's a lot cheaper and was the same show/event that was in the bigger city just months ago.

 

[Doctor&Geek]

Look, I just posted Iowa's match list because people were going to some impressive programs away from Iowa. Iowa has some great programs (ENT, optho, ortho, neurosurgery) that consistently rank high in the US News world report rankings. So, many people will want to stay at Iowa instead of going somewhere else. Besides, you have to also consider location too (like you suggested). Some people want to stay in Iowa or midwest for family reasons hence will rank programs higher in the region. They might turn down offers from "better" programs. For example, my friend told me of one of the residents at Iowa who got interview offers from Harvard, Penn, columbia, etc. for residency but chose Iowa for family reasons. My point being that the students in the lower part of the class might have only applied to midwest programs.

I wasn't so much talking about the drinking scene. Believe it or not, Iowa city has some cultural events too that one can attend. Yes, it's not the same as a big city but it's a lot cheaper and was the same show/event that was in the bigger city just months ago.

This is such an old and tired argument. Replace "Iowa" with just about any school (yes even the top ones) - same story. You still haven't provided a credible argument to support Iowa as qualitatively better than any other institution based on its match list.

NOOB!

 

[ChubbyChaser]

and how do you propose we figure out who the bottom 1/3 is????? Its not like we can know for certain that X person who matched at kalamazoo Psych. couldnt have gotten into Harvard Derm.

Maybe he just likes Psych and the kalamazoo region

 

[Wylde]

and how do you propose we figure out who the bottom 1/3 is????? Its not like we can know for certain that X person who matched at kalamazoo Psych. couldnt have gotten into Harvard Derm.

Maybe he just likes Psych and the kalamazoo region

exactly, match lists are almost completely useless and void of some information that would make them more useful (ie what % matched into one of their top programs, the class rank of people, etc.).

 

[Law2Doc]

exactly, match lists are almost completely useless and void of some information that would make them more useful (ie what % matched into one of their top programs, the class rank of people, etc.).

I agree strongly with this. As mentioned, you are going to see some good programs listed on every match list. You don't know from this list what people were interested in, how far down their list they got, who was focusing more on geography than specialty, etc. You don't know whether the best student got rads or the middle student in the class got rads, because people will choose what they are interested in, not what they can get. You don't even know which programs are good in which fields, and so by counting specialties or ivies, etc for all you know some people are matching into malignant programs in certain specialties that aren't as good as you'd think from the school or specialty name. (Realize that specialties don't track the US News med school ranking and often the best programs are some you've never heard of. So the most prestigious IM program might be a more impressive match than a below average rads match). Or you could look at the same list and say, "gee, Iowa puts an awful lot of people into family medicine compared to other schools, so it is a very primary care oriented match list". But this is just as flawed as what the OP is doing because if those folks wanted FP, and they got what they wanted, then it's a good list.
So what I and others are saying in this thread is that match lists are impossible to interpret correctly as premeds -- you lack the data. And only having access to partial data often will bring you to the wrong conclusion. As it is likely doing here. Don't waste your time with these lists.

 

[emt30119]

Also, its cold and the weather can really suck (this winter has been a case in point). I swear if it snows one more time I'm going to scream!!

Prepare to scream: Iowa City forcast

Tomorrow(Sat): Variably cloudy with snow showers. Cold. High 39F. Winds NNW at 20 to 30 mph. Chance of snow 50%

 

[OncDoc19]

Prepare to scream: Iowa City forecast

Tomorrow(Sat): Variably cloudy with snow showers. Cold. High 39F. Winds NNW at 20 to 30 mph. Chance of snow 50%

Well that's just gross weather. Luckily though I am in Rochester, NY at a conference until Sunday. Although I just checked the forecast here and it seems there is a chance of snow on Sunday. Great.

 

[flip26]

I agree strongly with this. As mentioned, you are going to see some good programs listed on every match list. You don't know from this list what people were interested in, how far down their list they got, who was focusing more on geography than specialty, etc. You don't know whether the best student got rads or the middle student in the class got rads, because people will choose what they are interested in, not what they can get. You don't even know which programs are good in which fields, and so by counting specialties or ivies, etc for all you know some people are matching into malignant programs in certain specialties that aren't as good as you'd think from the school or specialty name. (Realize that specialties don't track the US News med school ranking and often the best programs are some you've never heard of. So the most prestigious IM program might be a more impressive match than a below average rads match). Or you could look at the same list and say, "gee, Iowa puts an awful lot of people into family medicine compared to other schools, so it is a very primary care oriented match list". But this is just as flawed as what the OP is doing because if those folks wanted FP, and they got what they wanted, then it's a good list.
So what I and others are saying in this thread is that match lists are impossible to interpret correctly as premeds -- you lack the data. And only having access to partial data often will bring you to the wrong conclusion. As it is likely doing here. Don't waste your time with these lists.

This business about "the bottom third" analysis is a new one, and useless for any purpose, not to mention a moot point for most applicants.

I do not have the stats to back this up, but SDN participation seems skewed towards applicants with a more national focus, and that can be a result of them having above average stats or below average stats, including a big chunk of Californians who face steep odds instate with anything less than stellar stats - the broad base of median applicants from the rest of the country seem underrepresented here.

This "average" matriculant is not reflected in representative numbers on SDN because he is applying to his state schools and not many if any more (one measure of this - nationally the average number of med schools applied to is around 14 IIRC, but just look at the MDApps profiles linked to SDN where the average is much higher - look on a thread for a state like Louisiana - most of the people don't even have an MDApps profile, but the ones that do often have only applied to their 2 state schools and maybe Tulane, and I have seen a bunch who apply only to one state school early decision - there are a bunch of applicants in a bunch of states who only apply instate). For these applicants, the match list nonsense never comes into play, nor should it.

Even more ridiculous, this "match list" voodoo is being used to divine non-existent differences not between Harvard and unranked state university med schools but Harvard and other top 20 schools...

There are plenty of valid reasons for choosing one med school over another. Match list "analysis" is not only useless but potentially misleading.

 

[mikedc813]

I agree strongly with this. As mentioned, you are going to see some good programs listed on every match list. You don't know from this list what people were interested in, how far down their list they got, who was focusing more on geography than specialty, etc. You don't know whether the best student got rads or the middle student in the class got rads, because people will choose what they are interested in, not what they can get. You don't even know which programs are good in which fields, and so by counting specialties or ivies, etc for all you know some people are matching into malignant programs in certain specialties that aren't as good as you'd think from the school or specialty name. (Realize that specialties don't track the US News med school ranking and often the best programs are some you've never heard of. So the most prestigious IM program might be a more impressive match than a below average rads match). Or you could look at the same list and say, "gee, Iowa puts an awful lot of people into family medicine compared to other schools, so it is a very primary care oriented match list". But this is just as flawed as what the OP is doing because if those folks wanted FP, and they got what they wanted, then it's a good list.
So what I and others are saying in this thread is that match lists are impossible to interpret correctly as premeds -- you lack the data. And only having access to partial data often will bring you to the wrong conclusion. As it is likely doing here. Don't waste your time with these lists.

First, Iowa is a great med school and it has some very highly regarded residency programs (rad onc being one).

Second, I completely agree with law2doc. You don't know anything about these people who matched other than where they matched. That's not very helpful. What's more important are the things that were listed above such as how far down did each person go on their rank list, how did each person rank their programs, etc. Just because people match at Harvard or Yale doesn't mean a whole lot about the potential of students in that class as a whole.

 

[-Goose-]

With that said... Iowa actually has top programs in Ophtho and ENT.

And neurosurgery and orthopedics.

Iowa is a solid state school. Don't underestimate the draw of a great education at a great price. Most of us at state schools are here by choice. Its more about what you do with your time in med school rather than where you did it.

 

[emt30119]

And neurosurgery and orthopedics.

Thats funny, I work with the neurosurgery team, it is hard to imagine that they were top choices in a competitive residency. Actually they are pretty good, just funny to think about.

 

[apricotattack]

Does anyone know about any community outreach initiatives implemented by the College of Medicine? I know of the student-run Community Outreach Program (course) and the mobile clinic...I am actually looking for something sponsored by the college itself.

I don't know about match lists, but I know about these!

Community Health Outreach (CHO) is an optional course for M1s and M2s that meets weekly to hear speakers on relevant topics. It's student-run (an M2 is the course director). The course culminates in a project where you actually have to work with a community group or create your own to address a problem that some population has. For example, you coould work on getting more diabetes info to the Latino population in the area...

Mobile Clinic is a student-run free clinic that travels to towns and neighborhoods in and around Iowa City. It's staffed by students, with of course a few docs at each clinic to sign off on exams, consult, etc. Not only med students are involved - lots of public health, undergrad, nursing, and pharm students help out, too. M1s can take patient histories, do vitals, labs (glucose/cholesterol checks), do interpretation (we have a site with a significant Sudanese population (Arabic) and Latinos at most sites), or do patient intake.

These are both great programs that I'd recommend to anyone who's interested in working with underserved populations!

 

[tiger2011]

You are still talking about the top students in their program. Penn's MSTP match list alone beats Iowa's match list. That is the point. As another poster said there is always going to be a few great matches at every school. I really have to disagree with you when you say that Iowa is not by name an elite program. It is not an elite program, by name or anything else. Again, it's a good school, but it just isn't in the same league as Harvard, Hopkins, Penn, UCSF, Michigan, etc.

I'm glad you enjoyed your undergrad experience here. We obviously have very different ideas of what it means to have fun. I became bored of the partying/binge drinking scene very quickly and yearn for a more sophisticated academic environment. I would agree that I had wonderful educational opportunities and I have managed to find friends here who are interested in more than beer, football, and going to Jake's on a Tuesday. I understand that for some that this their ideal college experience, but it is not mine. I do however have the right to critique Iowa City as I see fit. I certainly did not "bad mouth" it. I simply shared my opinion of the city and who might fit in best there. By the way, even the MSTP sells the program to students based on the family-friendliness of Iowa City, so apparently I'm not the only one who feels this way.

you sound like a pretentious ***- please don't come to iowa.

 

[AKu2984]

Prepare to scream: Iowa City forcast

Tomorrow(Sat): Variably cloudy with snow showers. Cold. High 39F. Winds NNW at 20 to 30 mph. Chance of snow 50%

No kidding...I live near Iowa City, and am wondering myself why I want to stay here...

 

[sunshinefun]

you sound like a pretentious ***- please don't come to iowa.

I agree, if you are deciding on a medical school on how nice it sounds on paper that you have some issues. Anyways Iowa was pretty amazing when I went there. I don't see why it isn't as good as the universities he mentioned when considering exam scores, faculty, student body, honest respect for people from different backgrounds, facilities, the setting...etc.