Is a 68 a Pass?

[Newquagmire]

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The following just happened at my school: A final exam was given in which the mean score was an 88. A "provisional pass," meaning that students marginally passed, was assigned to students receiving scores between 70 and 78. A "fail" was assigned to one student with the lowest score, a 68. No criteria for assigning grades was discussed until grades were posted.

Is this fair?

A post on this same subject at my school's private forum has received 940+ views and 64+ replies in the past 24 hours. I assure you that this is an obscene amount.

 

[jennie 21]

Seems fair enough to me. At my school, generally below a 70 is failing--usually a 65-70 is a "marginal pass", meaning you don't have to re-take but you do have to go talk to the course director and sometimes have some tutoring. I'd say if the class average was an 88, unless the score distribution was very wide, a 70 is a fair place to draw the line for passing.

 

[Wrigleyville]

I'm surprised the grading policies weren't discussed on the first day. At any rate, 88 seems like an insanely high mean to me -- they need to beef up those exams so they can get a better spread. I'm guessing 68 is several SDs below the mean, but I'd need more information -- not that it matters though, because it was the lowest score in the class. Whoever got it really needs to relearn that material anyway.

 

[TJ1680]

Once you start your third year, I think the word 'fair' will basically disppear from your vocabulary. Might as well start getting used to it now.

 

[PianoGirl04]

These discussions remind me of why I am a big advocate of pass/fail grades. Curves create unpleasant competition and straight percentage schemes often end up being silly. Either way, you have a mess. And, to what end?

You read my mind. My school does H/P/F, but it's a norm-based grading system. You have to get one SD above the mean for honors, and 2 SD below the mean is a failure. The problem is that the means have been around 85, so a lot of the grades end up getting cuved downward.

In this case, what really doesn't sit well with me is the lack of communication about the grading policies. I may not like my school's grading system, but at least they made it clear to us from the beginning and apply the same system to all exams.

 

[thackl]

What about variations from class to class. Last yrs class at my school had some major up curving just to keep a huge percentage of them from failing. I ended up in a gunner class and several prof's have stated they are seeing the highest averages ever. They don't know what to do about us..... they made the 2nd round of tests harder than the 1st (which I strongly disagree with) and averages still went up??? I'm doing fine, but I'd hate to be a pass, low pass or marginal fail in this class. I doubt there will be any curving this yr.

I would like to see pure P/F/H with the bar set the day before classes start. If 30 fail, then they deserve it and if 40 get A's then......... they deserve it. The point is suposed to be a certian level of competency regardless of class performance, not curves and competitiveness.

 

[euromd]

Curving grades is cruel. If you got a 90 then so be it along with everyone else who got it. The prof designed the test and no test-taker should be penalized for learning the material and have their grades curved downward because too many people had good marks. The reverse is also true. You are responsable for the material. One thing I have learned is that all minutiae is fair game.

However in the OP's case, the pass mark should have been discussed at the beginning of the course, or at the very least, prior to the exam. Is their no school-wide grading policy, or are there different pass marks for different courses?

-S

 

[Newquagmire]

However in the OP's case, the pass mark should have been discussed at the beginning of the course, or at the very least, prior to the exam. Is their no school-wide grading policy, or are there different pass marks for different courses?

For the statistician, n = 122, other marks in the 70-78 range, but uncertain how many.

The poll question could just as easily be comparing a 68 and a 70 (instead of a 78). The only grading policy is that instructors determine their own standards of satisfactory performance.

 

[GoodMonkey]

our school just starts out by saying a 70% is required to pass. if you don't get that 70% (after drop/bonus questions, miskeys, whatnot,) you don't pass that sequence. regardless of what the class average is.

 

[Xandie]

Each class has its own minimum pass here, although in some classes (biochem), the cut-offs can move within a certain given range. But we always know going into a class what the cut-offs will be.

 

[Baditude]

We have anything below 70% is a failure. No curve at all. The grades are H,HP,P,F

 

[SaltySqueegee]

our school just starts out by saying a 70% is required to pass. if you don't get that 70% (after drop/bonus questions, miskeys, whatnot,) you don't pass that sequence. regardless of what the class average is.

Same here. No curve, just straight grades. Which eliminates the crazy competitiveness at my school. Most people get together to make study guides and email that info to the entire class to use. Definitely a cooperative effort. Makes life much easier, plus I learn more. 👍

 

[ecranda]

At my school a 65 is pass and that is it. You either fail with a 64 or pass with a 65! So, both are pass at my school 🙂

 

[Neuronix]

I think my definition of fair would depend on what they do to you. If they sort of call you into their office, give you a stern talking to, and change your grade on your transcript to a P, who cares? Yes, that's about what happens here if you fail certain blocks. If you have to retake the exam, it does kind of suck, but whatever--med school sucks.

Any worse and it becomes really unfair IMO. Do they really believe a 68% on one exam in med school makes you any worse of a doctor? Yeah right.

 

[ColoMD]

Do they really believe a 68% on one exam in med school makes you any worse of a doctor? Yeah right.

While it's true, all schools have to draw the line somewhere on what is pass and what is not...be it one percent or not.

 

[Columbia22]

I would have to disagree with the statement that "straight grades" in a H/HP/P/F type of system eliminates competition. If anything, the level of competition is the same or at a higher level than curved schools because the school is not gonna hand out 50% Honors. Honors grades are always determined by percentages (with usually no more than 10% of the class receiving Honors, the next 15% HP), and thus, it comes down once again to your standard bell-curve. So no matter what, in any school without a straight P/F grading system, the competition is going to be rough.

 

[Xandie]

I would have to disagree with the statement that "straight grades" in a H/HP/P/F type of system eliminates competition. If anything, the level of competition is the same or at a higher level than curved schools because the school is not gonna hand out 50% Honors. Honors grades are always determined by percentages (with usually no more than 10% of the class receiving Honors, the next 15% HP), and thus, it comes down once again to your standard bell-curve. So no matter what, in any school without a straight P/F grading system, the competition is going to be rough.

That could be true, but here at my school we have the cut-offs set. Typically, 75% of our class gets HP or H in Anatomy and Development, and about 50% get HP/H in biochem. And our classes aren't super easy, I swear!

 

[Columbia22]

Are you serious??? 75%????????? 50%????????? I've never heard of such a thing. Crap, does your school accept transfers?

 

[Baditude]

Our Honors is anyone above a 90% High pass above 80% and Pass 70%or above. This is for Anatomy and Biochem both. It is not based on a percentage of the class it is if you earn it then you earn it.

 

[Xandie]

Our Honors is anyone above a 90% High pass above 80% and Pass 70%or above. This is for Anatomy and Biochem both. It is not based on a percentage of the class it is if you earn it then you earn it.

That's how our Devo is. Anatomy is 89% for HP, 94% for H, and biochem is 83% for HP, 92% for H.

 

[azzarah]

My school uses a curve. It's good if you want to pass, but it's a b!tch if you want a high grade (or so I imagine) 🙂 As long as you are within two stdevs from the mean you pass. 😀

 

[TheFlash]

this is why unranked pass/fail rocks, at least for the first two years anway. thank you jesus, mary and krishna!

 

[Medpilot]

We don't ever see our grade. We take the test and they tell us if we pass/fail/honors. That's it. Can't even look at it. It's a very bittersweet system. On the one hand we have little competition between the class, but the other is that it's really frustrating not getting to see what you missed.