Is a Canadian premed degree looked down upon, compared to a US one? U of T/Case

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

glam407

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
60
Reaction score
0
I would wondering if anyone can help me here.
I have to choose between the University Toronto or Case Western for premed. I'm a US permanent resident and will me a citizen next year so if I get a degree from the U of Toronto, would it be harder for me to come back to America( with the same hypothetical GPA) as if I go to Case?

Toronto has more international recognition, a grading scheme that is apparently much harder than American schools, considering an 85 gets you an A, and barely anyone in life science( people told me they knew 3 out of their 1000 friends) got that.

However, in America, most med schools have heard of case, because of its med school,and it's premed program is pretty good.

But i need to know if I'd have an advantage with an American degree? or if it's the same as long as I'm a citizen

Members don't see this ad.
 
I would really appreciate a response, as I'm basing my entire college decision on this.
 
I don't think anyone here (except bannie22) can really tell you what you should do in this situation. I'd probably go where i feel like I'd be happier, personally. I don't really think if you were a us citizen that it'd make much difference either way.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Simply I'd say go to Case Western and remain a US citizen. It'll make your life a lot easier when applying to medical school since if your a Canadian citizen you'll have to have a significantly hard time getting into a American medical school.
That being said.. if you can go to UofT without losing your US citizenship then there's no problem.
 
Can't really comment on your actual question, but your expectation of the mark distribution of U of T is a little off.
In the first two years, about 20% of the students will get an A- or above (80 or above) with probably 10-15% getting A or above (85 or above). The class average is usually maintained at a C+ (roughly 67%). The proportion of students getting A's will increase in third and fourth year classes (mostly due to the fact that they are smaller classes and the faculties don't put a restriction on what the class average has to be).
I go to U of T so all this info is first hand experience.
 
Simply I'd say go to Case Western and remain a US citizen. It'll make your life a lot easier when applying to medical school since if your a Canadian citizen you'll have to have a significantly hard time getting into a American medical school.
That being said.. if you can go to UofT without losing your US citizenship then there's no problem.

agree 100%
a UofT degree will not hurt you when applying to US med schools, and a Case degree will not hurt when applying to Canadian med schools. The most important factor other then gpa and scores is your citizenship. To go to american med schools, if you are not a US citizen it will be extremely difficult to be accepted anywhere. Likewise, to go to a Canadian school, they are more competitive and require higher marks on average. Also you pretty much have to claim residency in that particular province... it helps a lot.

Being a US citizen will give you the best chance to go to med school because there are 10x as many med schools in the US and on average the requirements are less.
 
I'm a Canadian myself. Personally i would go to U of T if you want to end up applying to USA/Canadian schools in the end. Reasons below:

1) Toronto is a much better city to live in than Cleveland
2) Alot of my friends at U of T got interviews at very good schools in the states
3) If you go to Case, you might not count as living in province anymore if you want to apply to certain outside of/Ontario schools (I might be wrong about that)
4) Where did you go to high school?? Canada or USA?
5) Again, I could be mistaken, but I think U of T has better research opportunities than Case.

You are somewhat mistaken, I'm dual and have lived this situation. By far american citizens have a better chance at american schools... its not even comparable.
1-true
2-its possible, but interview does not equal acceptance.. and you have to have well above avg. stats
3-if you get ohio residency you give up your ontario residency, plain and simple... but there are 7 med schools in ohio (with mny more nearby), and 6 in ontario.
5-Case western has great research opportunities. the med schools is one of the leading research universities in the midwest and has a top 10 research endowment
 
You are somewhat mistaken, I'm dual and have lived this situation. By far american citizens have a better chance at american schools... its not even comparable.
1-true
2-its possible, but interview does not equal acceptance.. and you have to have well above avg. stats
3-if you get ohio residency you give up your ontario residency, plain and simple... but there are 7 med schools in ohio (with mny more nearby), and 6 in ontario.
5-Case western has great research opportunities. the med schools is one of the leading research universities in the midwest and has a top 10 research endowment

If he went to U of T for university, he would not be giving up his American citizenship though, so he would still have a great chance right?
 
If he went to U of T for university, he would not be giving up his American citizenship though, so he would still have a great chance right?

yeah well i don't know what exactly he meant by 'next year', we gotta refer back to the OP.

if he's an american citizen either way i too would probably go to UofT, but thats just me.... then again i have heard negative things about the competitive nature and the lack of a central campus. moreover i really don't have any info about case undergrad to compare with.
 
I think U of T would be a better place to go to. Just have competitive grades and MCATs and you should be fine. Good luck!
 
yeah well i don't know what exactly he meant by 'next year', we gotta refer back to the OP.

if he's an american citizen either way i too would probably go to UofT, but thats just me.... then again i have heard negative things about the competitive nature and the lack of a central campus. moreover i really don't have any info about case undergrad to compare with.

Hey,

I have a few things to add. I'm from Toronto, and was in Cleveland earlier this year for an interview at Case. There is no comparison in terms of the cities: you'll have an amazing time in Toronto. It's a big, multicultural, fun, and safe city.

Secondly, although U of T does have three campuses, I think klmnop is a little fuzzy on how they work. A "lack of a central campus" is not an issue: the three almost operate independently of one another. If you are accepted to a program at the downtown campus (St. George), then you will never need to go to the other campuses.

Also, you need not worry about the different marking scheme at U of T, or in Canada in general. AMCAS uses a different GPA conversion tailored to Canadian applicants that is, I must admit, much more generous than GPA conversions for Canadian medical school application services. If you got all or mostly 80s and higher, than you would apply to the US with a stellar GPA.
 
Also, you need not worry about the different marking scheme at U of T, or in Canada in general. AMCAS uses a different GPA conversion tailored to Canadian applicants that is, I must admit, much more generous than GPA conversions for Canadian medical school application services. If you got all or mostly 80s and higher, than you would apply to the US with a stellar GPA.

Thats not the point, the thing is American schools only reserve a handful of spots for non-citizens. If you are an American citizen, then its fine, if you are a Canadian citizen applying to US schools then the 'generous conversion' will not be enough.
 
Hey,

Also, you need not worry about the different marking scheme at U of T, or in Canada in general. AMCAS uses a different GPA conversion tailored to Canadian applicants that is, I must admit, much more generous than GPA conversions for Canadian medical school application services. If you got all or mostly 80s and higher, than you would apply to the US with a stellar GPA.

I don't know how there was a generous conversion scale, OMSAS and AMCAS were the same thing GPAwise. Only thing that might have made a small difference is the weight of the labs, and that would have been a 0.01 difference usually.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I don't know how there was a generous conversion scale, OMSAS and AMCAS were the same thing GPAwise. Only thing that might have made a small difference is the weight of the labs, and that would have been a 0.01 difference usually.

Not sure why either, but my GPA, as listed by AMCAS, was higher than that listed by OMSAS. It was the same for other friends of mine that applied to the US.
 
Which is cheaper? It doesn't really matter where you go to undergrad; it makes sense to minimize your debt as much as possible.
 
I'd be paying 35,000 at Toronto all together.
and 33,000 at Case, all together.
Money isn't the real issue here.

I'm a British Citizen, but I've lived in America for the past 10 years, I've had a green card for 4.5 years, I went to highschool in Pennsylvania, and I'll be a citizen next year.

I don't plan on applying for a Canadian perm. res, or becoming a Canadian citizen.

Taking that into account what would you say?
 
not sure why either, but my gpa, as listed by amcas, was higher than that listed by omsas. It was the same for other friends of mine that applied to the us.

amcas 85 = 4.0
omsas 85 = 3.9 (90 = 4.0)
 
I think the answer is a pretty simple one: Ohio has 7 in-state medical schools. Go to Case Western and get that in-state status for medical school. You'll have a significantly easier time getting into medical school and it'll be cheaper. 👍
 
I'd be paying 35,000 at Toronto all together.
and 33,000 at Case, all together.
Money isn't the real issue here.

I'm a British Citizen, but I've lived in America for the past 10 years, I've had a green card for 4.5 years, I went to highschool in Pennsylvania, and I'll be a citizen next year.

I don't plan on applying for a Canadian perm. res, or becoming a Canadian citizen.

Taking that into account what would you say?

Taking all that into account, I say, go to Case Western. You've lived in the states for most of your life, might as well continue there.

Gaining in-state designation would be great too, you can get into Case, OSU etc later on, great schools!
 
The thing is I've set my eye on 5 medical schools none which are in Ohio ( such as USC's KECK)

so being recognized in Ohio isn't really helping me , plus since I live in PA, I want to try to go to U Pitt( which is another on my 5 list)

I guess the problem isn't really getting into any medical school ( otherwise, any ohio state premed who gets in automatically gets into their med school, i would have accepted that offer)

It's not having a disadvantage in 4 years.
 
I'm a triple citizen: British, Canadian and American-born, who loves Toronto. I went to U of T- St George for three years. So did my Canadian husband who had to end up at SGU in the Caribbean because of U of T's grade deflation. I finally came to my senses and chose the USA to do my pre-medical education. I'll elaborate why later in this post.

Furthermore, I've been to Case (friends at the dental school there), so I can tell you that the only thing going for that city and campus is the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame, and this one italian restaurant. Overall, Cleveland is alot uglier than Toronto. But the relative appeal of a city should not be the deciding factor unless your financial situation forced you to move into the ghetto. You can live in whatever city you want once you finish residency!

So now that you know where I'm coming from, let me assure you that U of T is an incredibly difficult school. Only in classes with less than 23 people will you not be subject to the culture of grade deflation there, that usually comes in the form of disproportionately hard finals. In my three years at U of T, I only had one first year seminar course that had less than 23 people. Last year, first year biology called BIO150 (which they have now broken up into semestered courses) had 1800 students in it. About the same number were in chem138/139 and physics 110. The second year psych courses had over 200 students. They all fit in one room! Many of the classes are in theatres.

Of course this depends on your program -- I took Irish History and there were only 30 students. But I had to drop it because of the harsh grading. Go to U of T at your own peril, I say. They are very competitive there.

I went there for the past three years, majoring in psychology and "pre-med," and had to leave with my ugly GPA. I'm now in NY, where the classes are SO much easier. I really regret going to U of T for pre-med but I'm still in love with the school. The people are so much nicer there and the campus (downtown, St George) is positively beautiful. I really miss it. I also appreciate that they have less red tape in Canada, and they taught me how to research and think critically.

On the topic of research, btw, these are insanely competitive positions that often require a 6 month to two year waiting list. You also need a stellar GPA and a demonstrated research interest doesn't hurt either. They have many hospitals practically on campus, on University Ave. They are beautiful and inspiring, but it's nearly impossible to get any meaningful volunteer work there. Again, it's the bloody waiting lists. And the hoops you need to jump through, oh.my.god!! I had to go to this hour long, time-sink seminar once to get a volunteer position at Princess Margaret Hospital before I could even get interviewed. I felt like I was applying for a highly coveted, paid job! I ended up leaving and finding better volunteer work out in the 'burbs.

I hope my experiences help you decide. If you want to find out more about the grading policy at u of t, you can go to http://www.utoronto.ca and do a search.
 
Last edited:
Well this isn't something highschool kids can help me on, it's something people who were premeds in Canada and applying to American schools/ people who know about them can help me on.
 
Well this isn't something highschool kids can help me on, it's something people who were premeds in Canada and applying to American schools/ people who know about them can help me on.

there is no consensus here. if you don't wanna do that go to the college confidential forum for these two schools where you can talk to students at those schools. the facts are, there is little difference in terms of a premed education at these schools... you are grasping at straws. ultimately you have to determine which school you will be happier at and thus which you will succeed at. there is no 'better' school for getting into med school. between these two it doesnt exist.
 
Everyone on college confidential and even the earlier poster talked about how ridiculous the grading deflation is, even though I feel like I'd be happier at Toronto, and that I'd challenge myself, maybe I'd be overestimating myself.

And I really don't want a disadvantage ( of a hypothetical international degree) when applying to medical schools that were more competitive than getting into college.
 
if you don't wanna do that go to the college confidential forum for these two schools where you can talk to students at those schools.

The OP made a thread there asking about these two schools a couple days ago. 😛
 
Everyone on college confidential and even the earlier poster talked about how ridiculous the grading deflation is, even though I feel like I'd be happier at Toronto, and that I'd challenge myself, maybe I'd be overestimating myself.

And I really don't want a disadvantage ( of a hypothetical international degree) when applying to medical schools that were more competitive than getting into college.

Lets put an end to this. An american citizen with a canadian degree is not considered an international degree. Canadian schools, including UofT, are of equal caliber as American schools in the eyes of American Med schools. If you do well, you have a shot. End of story. UofT is not impossible, but it is difficult. As will be case. If you are really worried about limiting your chances go to an easy state school like Penn State, get a 4.0 and you will have many options.
 
Hey,

I have a few things to add. I'm from Toronto, and was in Cleveland earlier this year for an interview at Case. There is no comparison in terms of the cities: you'll have an amazing time in Toronto. It's a big, multicultural, fun, and safe city.

Secondly, although U of T does have three campuses, I think klmnop is a little fuzzy on how they work. A "lack of a central campus" is not an issue: the three almost operate independently of one another. If you are accepted to a program at the downtown campus (St. George), then you will never need to go to the other campuses.

Also, you need not worry about the different marking scheme at U of T, or in Canada in general. AMCAS uses a different GPA conversion tailored to Canadian applicants that is, I must admit, much more generous than GPA conversions for Canadian medical school application services. If you got all or mostly 80s and higher, than you would apply to the US with a stellar GPA.

I hate it when people look down on Cleveland like this.
Yes, Toronto is a bigger city but the culture there is not that much more impressive as people put it to be.
The fun level of any city depends on how much you are willing to explore the city. Hell, I went to U of T for undergrad and I know it is nice to have so many good music venues and art galleries within walking distance from the campus and Case might not have such luxury. However, those places are scattered across the whole city in Cleveland and it takes effort to discover. I was surprised that within two years of studying here at Case, I've discovered many more so-called "fun" places than some of the faculties have ever known.


In my opinion, Toronto is just a NYC-wanna be but the majority of the people involved in the movement are doing it for the wrong reason. Sure, the city has given birth to great artists and musicians over the past decade or two but the population in general is still lacking.
 
I'm a triple citizen: British, Canadian and American-born, who loves Toronto. I went to U of T- St George for three years. So did my Canadian husband who had to end up at SGU in the Caribbean because of U of T's grade deflation. I finally came to my senses and chose the USA to do my pre-medical education. I'll elaborate why later in this post.

Furthermore, I've been to Case (friends at the dental school there), so I can tell you that the only thing going for that city and campus is the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame, and this one italian restaurant. Overall, Cleveland is alot uglier than Toronto. But the relative appeal of a city should not be the deciding factor unless your financial situation forced you to move into the ghetto. You can live in whatever city you want once you finish residency!

So now that you know where I'm coming from, let me assure you that U of T is an incredibly difficult school. Only in classes with less than 23 people will you not be subject to the culture of grade deflation there, that usually comes in the form of disproportionately hard finals. In my three years at U of T, I only had one first year seminar course that had less than 23 people. Last year, first year biology called BIO150 (which they have now broken up into semestered courses) had 1800 students in it. About the same number were in chem138/139 and physics 110. The second year psych courses had over 200 students. They all fit in one room! Many of the classes are in theatres.

Of course this depends on your program -- I took Irish History and there were only 30 students. But I had to drop it because of the harsh grading. Go to U of T at your own peril, I say. They are very competitive there.

I went there for the past three years, majoring in psychology and "pre-med," and had to leave with my ugly GPA. I'm now in NY, where the classes are SO much easier. I really regret going to U of T for pre-med but I'm still in love with the school. The people are so much nicer there and the campus (downtown, St George) is positively beautiful. I really miss it. I also appreciate that they have less red tape in Canada, and they taught me how to research and think critically.

On the topic of research, btw, these are insanely competitive positions that often require a 6 month to two year waiting list. You also need a stellar GPA and a demonstrated research interest doesn't hurt either. They have many hospitals practically on campus, on University Ave. They are beautiful and inspiring, but it's nearly impossible to get any meaningful volunteer work there. Again, it's the bloody waiting lists. And the hoops you need to jump through, oh.my.god!! I had to go to this hour long, time-sink seminar once to get a volunteer position at Princess Margaret Hospital before I could even get interviewed. I felt like I was applying for a highly coveted, paid job! I ended up leaving and finding better volunteer work out in the 'burbs.

I hope my experiences help you decide. If you want to find out more about the grading policy at u of t, you can go to http://www.utoronto.ca and do a search.

That's just bull**** about the grade deflation. Yes, some courses might be more difficult in comparison to other colleges but the professors do not purposefully fail the class just to meet certain quota. I have worked with several profs over my 4 years at U of T.
I strongly believe that if you work hard enough and you are smart enough, it wouldn't make a huge difference in your GPA.
Also, ask yourself this question, if you cannot handle such courses, can you handle the difficulties of actual med school courses?
And the difference in difficulty is not big enough to warrant the difference between being accepted to a Canadian school and a Carribean school. I am sorry that your husband has to go to Carribean for med school but you cannot simply blame his unfortunate path solely on the grading system of U of T..... Surely, he did not do so hot on the MCAT and other extra-circular activities.

"only thing going for that city and campus is the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame, and this one italian restaurant"
like I said in a previous post. You just need to know where to go in Cleveland. I am sorry that your friends at Case do not know anything about Cleveland but I personally think that Cleveland is an adequate city to live in with enough fun things to do (this is coming from someone who worked as a PR and photographer in NYC who often travel abroad to London, Paris, Moscow for side projects)


You simply sound like a bitter old woman trying to blame failure on everything else.
 
I hate it when people look down on Cleveland like this.
Yes, Toronto is a bigger city but the culture there is not that much more impressive as people put it to be.
The fun level of any city depends on how much you are willing to explore the city. Hell, I went to U of T for undergrad and I know it is nice to have so many good music venues and art galleries within walking distance from the campus and Case might not have such luxury. However, those places are scattered across the whole city in Cleveland and it takes effort to discover. I was surprised that within two years of studying here at Case, I've discovered many more so-called "fun" places than some of the faculties have ever known.


In my opinion, Toronto is just a NYC-wanna be but the majority of the people involved in the movement are doing it for the wrong reason. Sure, the city has given birth to great artists and musicians over the past decade or two but the population in general is still lacking.

I'm not sure what this "movement" you're talking about is, and I'm sure Cleveland has a bunch of local treasures that you can find with a little bit of effort and time. Toronto, however, is a world city, the cultural and financial hub for Canada, the most multicultural city in the world, and is much larger than Cleveland. I know some find Toronto "too large," and accordingly, may find Cleveland more suitable. But you're angry rant that Cleveland has tons of gems still doesn't detract from how great and fun Toronto is, despite your general and odd assertion that the population is lacking (whatever that means).
 
I'm not sure what this "movement" you're talking about is, and I'm sure Cleveland has a bunch of local treasures that you can find with a little bit of effort and time. Toronto, however, is a world city, the cultural and financial hub for Canada, the most multicultural city in the world, and is much larger than Cleveland. I know some find Toronto "too large," and accordingly, may find Cleveland more suitable. But you're angry rant that Cleveland has tons of gems still doesn't detract from how great and fun Toronto is, despite your general and odd assertion that the population is lacking (whatever that means).

ha, like I said, Toronto is just a NYC-wannabe. I am not trash talking Toronto because I am a small-town hick who enjoys a smaller city. I grew up in Toronto and moved to Manhattan after college. One major issue that you need to acknowledge is that size of a city does not matter.
My argument is that Toronto is a good city but too many residents have overrated the city. I am not saying that Cleveland is better than Toronto. I was merely commenting on the fact that Toronto isn't as great as you think. As an artist, I feel that the city has no distinctive feature. Aside from the Film Fest which I love and visit Toronto every year for it, there isn't much that distinguishes the city from any other city in North America.... say Minnesota or Pittsburgh.
Besibes, what's up with the multicultural talk? It's just a city overpopulated by immigrants, mostly first or second-generation college educated. (I'm Asian fyi). Most of them are not sophisticated at all. Hell, I visited a friend's condo once and the residents in that building treat the public areas like a giant spittoon. Yes, Toronto is multiculturally ozzing sophistication. Besides, the city hasn't done much to try integrate the different cultures. Basically, it's just every race doing their own thing, most of the time.

Anyway, who am I kidding. I forgot that we are on a premed forum and I am merely talking to science kids....
Apology 🙄
 
The thing is I've set my eye on 5 medical schools none which are in Ohio ( such as USC's KECK)

so being recognized in Ohio isn't really helping me , plus since I live in PA, I want to try to go to U Pitt( which is another on my 5 list)

I guess the problem isn't really getting into any medical school ( otherwise, any ohio state premed who gets in automatically gets into their med school, i would have accepted that offer)

It's not having a disadvantage in 4 years.

Um dude...you're in high school. Have you visited any of these medical schools and gone on tour there? It sounds like you're doing the name recognition test for the medical schools because, honestly, the Ohio schools are great schools. You have no idea how well you will do in college, so to be snubbing Ohio schools is pretty ridiculous(especially because they ARE quality schools).
 
i love how this turned into a toronto vs. cleveland forum.

basically:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM[/YOUTUBE]

vs.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSHEMBIzSso[/YOUTUBE]
 
Um dude...you're in high school. Have you visited any of these medical schools and gone on tour there? It sounds like you're doing the name recognition test for the medical schools because, honestly, the Ohio schools are great schools. You have no idea how well you will do in college, so to be snubbing Ohio schools is pretty ridiculous(especially because they ARE quality schools).

I've visited, and I'm not snubbing. Ohio State is higher ranked than two of the schools I want to attend. Sure two of the schools I want to attend are super highly ranked, but the other 3 are not, it's about environment.
And I know I won't know how well i'll do in college, which is why i'm trying to find the best environment for it. =]
 
As a graduate from U of T and current medical student in the US, my vote is for Case.

It's not only true that the environment at U of T is very competitive, but the support/guidance systems are essentially non-existent. You're basically on your own in figuring out what to do and hunting down opportunities. When talking to many of my classmates, and even just attending medical school here, I've found that US colleges have many more opportunities that are readily accessible if you want to do it, and that the advisors are much more knowledgeable and supportive. No one is going to let you do any substantial research at U of T unless you're on an NSERC grant, and those are very competitive to get. Volunteering at hospitals is pretty much a waste of time since you're very limited in what you can do, and finding a doctor to shadow is like trying to find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. When I told my advisor at U of T that I wanted to be a doctor near the end of my freshman year (with all As and one A-), he told me to just quit and find something else to do.

Despite its reputation, U of T has a very malignant atmosphere. If you can really handle it and work hard (trust me, you'll barely have time to enjoy the college life), then it will be worth it in the end. But it's a long road that can often times be discouraging and very easy to fall off. I believe you can have similar opportunities while also being able to enjoy a lot more free time and truly experience college life at Case. Just my two cents.
 
I'm not sure why you think UofT would give you an advantage in applying to US medical schools over Case... UofT is a great school but like several people have said already, the grades you will get suck. My best friend from high school went to UofT and now four years later, she said that if she could choose again, she probably wouldn't choose to do undergrad at UofT. There's too much stress and not enough support there, especially since the entering class size is so large. University itself is challenging enough. Although I would have to admit, Toronto is a terrific city. It has a lot of culture, it is exciting and very multi-culture, but it is expensive to live in (I'm not sure if you calculated that into your cost yet or not).

I think if you're aiming to go to med school in the US in the end, just go to Case
 
Last edited:
But it is possible to get the grades, yes?
nothing is impossible 😉

If you're leaning towards going to Toronto then go but just be ready for it (the challenging grading scheme, the gunners, the geniuses you hate because they don't have to study and you do... unless you are one of course heh). You'll come out the better for it but it's not easy
 
I wouldn't know, but I've heard it said that half the people in Canada are looking for ways to move to the US, and the other half spend their winters in Arizona and Florida.

Toronto, Cleveland - too bad no choices in places that at least have decent weather.
 
I wouldn't know, but I've heard it said that half the people in Canada are looking for ways to move to the US, and the other half spend their winters in Arizona and Florida.

Toronto, Cleveland - too bad no choices in places that at least have decent weather.

yeah thats not true. why post something after you say "i wouldn't know"
 
I went to UofT for undergrad. Cdn Citizen.

1) Its quite competitive there. You're pretty much in class w/ some of the top students in Canada. But its not impossible to do well. Expect relatively large classes in the first 2 years (BIO150, our 1st yr bio course, had 1500+ people when I took it). In 1st or 2nd year, people get high marks all the time, but they are usually a small percentage of the total populations, b/c the population is so large. Also expect your GPA to suffer a little as you progress. This is mainly b/c some of the less academically inclined students gets weeded out (drop out of life sci, pick less-stringent programs), especially for some of the hardcore life-sci specialist programs (we call them the BIG, Biochem, Immunology, and Mol. Genetics, then there's Pharm/Tox, Pathology - notorious as a pre-med program, ...). As a result, more competition. I was in one of these programs and it was not pleasant. Pretty much everyone of your classmates in 3rd and 4th yr had 3.9+ GPA during their 1st and 2nd yr, many w/ 4.0s. And by then, most profs are reluctant to have high class avg b/c then they'd need to write a letter to the dean or w/e explaining why the marks are so "high". So they keep the class avg at around low 70s, but most of the students are around the avg (again, these are the students w/ very high marks in 1st and 2nd yr, so are quite academically competent). In summary, expect competition and you better work your ass off.

2) Amazing hospitals around. Literally 50 meters from St. George campus (which is quite small and packed), there are the University Health Network Hospitals (Toronto General - known for cardio, Princess Margaret - Cancer, Toronto Western - Neuro). Then there's the Hospital for Sick Children - one of the best pediatric hospitals in the world. Then there's Mount Sinai Hospital. All these huge research/teaching hospitals are within 100 m of each other. So AMAZING research and clinical opportunities. Again, there will be a lot of ppl competing for these.

3) In terms of volunteering. I found the hospital positions are kind of boring and lame. There are also alot of ppl competing for these positions, so there are interviews, blah blah blah, kinda like applying to med school. But there are many other places you can volunteer, so its really up to you to find what you're interested in.

4) Ontario schools can be very stringent w/ GPA and MCAT. So these "stats" make up a larger chunk of their assessment of you. In some schools, if you fail to meet a certain criteria (ex. GPA, a section of the MCAT, say...Writing), you could have won the Nobel and saved a continent and they will not even look at your app. Can you taste my bitterness? :laugh: Out of all the schools, UofT med is quite well-rounded in their approach, so they will look at your entire app.

5) Toronto is a nice city. Downtown area is relatively safe, can't say the same about Scarborough. Very multicultural. Food is amazing.

With that said, I've applied to US Schools as an international student and interviewed at a few top 10 ones. Your citizenship plays a huge role at most schools. Even the private US med schools hold only a few spots for international students (you are considered international if you do not have US citizenship or permanent residence). Forget about most US public schools, they won't even consider you if you're an international student (understandable). The one thing that would've made my US application process much easier would be if I had US citizenship.

In summary, UofT is an amazing school not just for its academics, but also b/c of the hospitals around. So many opportunities. However, if attending UofT means abandoning your US citizenship, then don't do it, a citizenship opens many more doors to US schools. If you can retain your US citizenship, then I would recommend going to UofT if you're ok w/ the competition.

US citizenship opens so many doors to US schools that I think it should be your #1 priority.
 
Last edited:
4) Ontario schools can be very stringent w/ GPA and MCAT. So these "stats" make up a larger chunk of their assessment of you. In some schools, if you fail to meet a certain criteria (ex. GPA, a section of the MCAT, say...Writing), you could have won the Nobel and saved a continent and they will not even look at your app. Can you taste my bitterness? :laugh: Out of all the schools, UofT med is quite well-rounded in their approach, so they will look at your entire app.
OP is not considering in any way shape or form becoming Canadian (PR or other wise) so Canadian schools are out. Granted, if OP can get 3.9/4.0 and a decent MCAT AND do ECs/Research then US private med schools shouldn't be the biggest challenge. (I know, easier said than done)
 
As a graduate from U of T and current medical student in the US, my vote is for Case.

It's not only true that the environment at U of T is very competitive, but the support/guidance systems are essentially non-existent. You're basically on your own in figuring out what to do and hunting down opportunities. When talking to many of my classmates, and even just attending medical school here, I've found that US colleges have many more opportunities that are readily accessible if you want to do it, and that the advisors are much more knowledgeable and supportive. No one is going to let you do any substantial research at U of T unless you're on an NSERC grant, and those are very competitive to get. Volunteering at hospitals is pretty much a waste of time since you're very limited in what you can do, and finding a doctor to shadow is like trying to find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. When I told my advisor at U of T that I wanted to be a doctor near the end of my freshman year (with all As and one A-), he told me to just quit and find something else to do.

Despite its reputation, U of T has a very malignant atmosphere. If you can really handle it and work hard (trust me, you'll barely have time to enjoy the college life), then it will be worth it in the end. But it's a long road that can often times be discouraging and very easy to fall off. I believe you can have similar opportunities while also being able to enjoy a lot more free time and truly experience college life at Case. Just my two cents.

👍

Support from Prof. and Supervisors can vary. I was very lucky all my supervisors were super-supportive of not only my research projects/etc, but also my career goals. Some of my friends and classmates were less fortunate and has had supervisors that didn't have the time nor the interest to care.

Class size is definitely a minus. Don't expect any meaningful interactions w/ profs in the first two years. Imagine a class of 500+ ppl, the prof will probably not know who you are.

Profs/Advisors are usually pessimistic regarding pre-med, one reason is b/c there are so many of them :laugh: (in first year, at least). The pool will shrink significantly as the full might of UofT's competitive environment dash students' dreams and they look elsewhere for a career. I remember one of my profs said in the beginning of a course "I know many of you want to go into medicine. The first mistake you made was coming to UofT. The 2nd mistake was coming to St. George Campus (the downtown campus, the most competitive one). The 3rd mistake was taking my class." Everyone was like ...🙁, and looking back, he wasn't kidding. :scared:

The extra stress/work needed to be competitive definitely takes a toll on your social/personal life. Its manageable but still undesirable.
 
yeah thats not true. why post something after you say "i wouldn't know"
Sorry, I said it that way because I'm not Canadian and I don't live in Canada. My implied meaning, perhaps poorly expressed, was "I don't know this of my own knowledge or experience". The person who said that to me is Canadian and living in the US, and I've heard similar comments from other Canadians.

If your experience or knowledge is different, great.
 
Did you pick your supervisor?

And you guys, I won't lose my US citizenship because i'm only studying in Canada 🙂
 
OP is not considering in any way shape or form becoming Canadian (PR or other wise) so Canadian schools are out. Granted, if OP can get 3.9/4.0 and a decent MCAT AND do ECs/Research then US private med schools shouldn't be the biggest challenge. (I know, easier said than done)

Canadian citizenship is not required for many Canadian Med schools. Although applying as a non-Cdn decreases your chance significantly. A Cdn med degree is recognized in the US, and to practice in the US, OP will need to take the USMLEs. Cdn Med is an option, although not a very good one.

Even if he gets 3.9/4.0, *decent* MCAT and everything else, he will be at a disadvantage at US schools if he is not a US citizen. And it will be a challenge because at those private schools, there will not be a shortage of amazing candidates WITH US citizenship.
 
Did you pick your supervisor?

And you guys, I won't lose my US citizenship because i'm only studying in Canada 🙂

If you are SURE of this, it solves a lot of problems. :laugh: 👍

Plz double double check. I have a friend who had citizenship problems w/ studying abroad while being a per. resident. Although her case might be more complex than yours.

For the supervisors. I emailed a few profs I was interested in working with. One emailed back, had an interview, super seemed nice, and I ended up working under her for a few yrs. So I didn't really have a "choice" per se, but I was def interested in her work and she seemed very kind from the first impression. So it worked out for me, but I'm not sure if I would've taken the job if she seemed very cold.

I think one of the most important things that made it work was that I was actually interested in the stuff her lab was doing. I know some of my other classmates just wanted to do some kind of research so they can buff their resumes for med apps. So their lack of genuine interest might have contributed to the bad relationship w/ their supervisors. This is only one factors, sometimes the prof is too busy to take care of undergrad students.

From my experience, profs at U of T generally treat pre-meds w/ a bit of caution. I suspect mostly due to what I described above, just a lack of genuine interest in the lab's work. I know a few pre-meds who will not even mention their med aspirations during research interviews.
 
Last edited:
Canadian citizenship is not required for many Canadian Med schools. Although applying as a non-Cdn decreases your chance significantly. A Cdn med degree is recognized in the US, and to practice in the US, OP will need to take the USMLEs. Cdn Med is an option, although not a very good one.

With the exception of McGill, actually accepting international students is not common practice in Canada like it is in the US. I didn't say OP can't apply to Canadian schools but rather there's no point in wasting the time/effort/money/stress over it

Regardless, OP, basically we're all saying that unless you have a strong desire to live in Toronto and experience the stress factory known as the UofT St. George campus, it's probably better to go to Case because you'll eventually want to return to the US anyways.
 
Feef: Do you know what country she studied at?
 
With the exception of McGill, actually

Regardless, OP, basically we're all saying that unless you have a strong desire to live in Toronto and experience the stress factory known as the UofT St. George campus, it's probably better to go to Case because you'll eventually want to return to the US anyways.

👍

Feef: Do you know what country she studied at?

She had US per. residence, then went to France to study.
 
Top