Is a Psychology major required for a PsyD program?

[BioBeaver]

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Do PsyD programs want your undergrad major to be Psychology and only Psychology? Or is it like medical school, where if you have the Pre-reqs and research you have a shot at acceptance?

Also, how would you rate the difficulty of getting into a PsyD program vs an MD program? I'm assuming both want good grades and clinical/research experience, but which places a greater emphasis on those things?

 

[Lisa44201]

Do PsyD programs want your undergrad major to be Psychology and only Psychology? Or is it like medical school, where if you have the Pre-reqs and research you have a shot at acceptance?

Also, how would you rate the difficulty of getting into a PsyD program vs an MD program? I'm assuming both want good grades and clinical/research experience, but which places a greater emphasis on those things?

Oh dear.

No.

You're thinking (I dearly hope) a PhD program, not a PsyD program; there is a world of difference. Many PsyD programs (especially FSPS - free-standing psychology schools - think Argosy, Allient, & etc.) will admit you if you show up with a checkbook, whereas PhD programs (especially in Clinical Psychology) are fiercely competitive - perhaps moreso than med school. PhD programs place huge emphasis on research experience; PsyD programs, er, vary.

Also: there is something of an internship crisis for 5th year students (Clinical PhD and PsyD alike); PhD students stand a better chance at getting in than most PsyD students (especially ones from FSPSs), but it's not a guarantee; not landing an APA-approved internship has serious implications for getting licensed, which many FSPS PsyD students do not understand.

 

[WisNeuro]

Most PsyD programs just want you to pay their exorbitantly high tuition cost, I doubt they care what your undergrad major was.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Awesome sweeping generalizations....

 

[WisNeuro]

I said most, not all. Am I wrong?

 

[bpsydme]

Do PsyD programs want your undergrad major to be Psychology and only Psychology? Or is it like medical school, where if you have the Pre-reqs and research you have a shot at acceptance?

Also, how would you rate the difficulty of getting into a PsyD program vs an MD program? I'm assuming both want good grades and clinical/research experience, but which places a greater emphasis on those things?

I don't know about PsyD programs, but at least for PhD programs, they want you to have the appropriate background (i.e. basic psych courses, stats) but doesn't require a psych major. Of course, this depends on the program itself. You can check out program websites and consult the graduate guide in clinical/counseling psychology book for more detail by school/program.

For the bolded part- again, it depends on the program, just like it is in medicine. Just have the pre-reqs done and some research experience won't give you a shot at acceptance at Hopkins or Harvard, but may give you a shot at lower tiered programs. Likewise, for clinical psychology, the more competitive programs will want you to have more than the required minimum. With that being said, there is also GPA, GRE, research experience quality, papers, posters, connections, research area, funding availability, and about 10 other factors that doctorate programs take into account. In my opinion, grad school admissions isn't as clear cut as it sometimes is in med school admissions.

PsyD programs, I would imagine, will place more emphasis on clinical experiences, but again, I never applied to PsyDs so I could be wrong. In general, I find that grad school (PhDs clin psych) don't care very much for "extracurriculars"- they mainly care about 1) research experience 2) research match. I think that grad programs place more emphasis on "fit" because you are (Again talking about phds here, not psyd) going to be working with one primary mentor. Fit doesn't just include how smart you are through your GPA/GRE but also, what are your career goals, what are your research interests, what kind of student you are, etc. etc. So I would say med schools place more emphasis on grades, whereas grad schools place more emphasis on the whole picture. That doesn't mean that grad school will accept you with a 3.2 vs med school accepting you with a 3.8. It just means-IMHO- that grad schools look past the gpa/gre (which, btw, will need to be good to begin with) into other aspects of your application.

As you can see, the answer is not as black and white.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

I don't know about PsyD programs, but at least for PhD programs, they want you to have the appropriate background (i.e. basic psych courses, stats) but doesn't require a psych major. Of course, this depends on the program itself. You can check out program websites and consult the graduate guide in clinical/counseling psychology book for more detail by school/program.

For the bolded part- again, it depends on the program, just like it is in medicine. Just have the pre-reqs done and some research experience won't give you a shot at acceptance at Hopkins or Harvard, but may give you a shot at lower tiered programs. Likewise, for clinical psychology, the more competitive programs will want you to have more than the required minimum. With that being said, there is also GPA, GRE, research experience quality, papers, posters, connections, research area, funding availability, and about 10 other factors that doctorate programs take into account. In my opinion, grad school admissions isn't as clear cut as it sometimes is in med school admissions.

PsyD programs, I would imagine, will place more emphasis on clinical experiences, but again, I never applied to PsyDs so I could be wrong. In general, I find that grad school (PhDs clin psych) don't care very much for "extracurriculars"- they mainly care about 1) research experience 2) research match. I think that grad programs place more emphasis on "fit" because you are (Again talking about phds here, not psyd) going to be working with one primary mentor. Fit doesn't just include how smart you are through your GPA/GRE but also, what are your career goals, what are your research interests, what kind of student you are, etc. etc. So I would say med schools place more emphasis on grades, whereas grad schools place more emphasis on the whole picture. That doesn't mean that grad school will accept you with a 3.2 vs med school accepting you with a 3.8. It just means-IMHO- that grad schools look past the gpa/gre (which, btw, will need to be good to begin with) into other aspects of your application.

As you can see, the answer is not as black and white.

This. Have the pre-reqs, have some clinical/counseling (or just any direct population contact), maybe some volunteering, and a decent gpa/gre.

 

[BioBeaver]

It's odd, I always that the PsyD was for clinical psychology (which I assumed was therapy, a "shrink") and the PhD was solely for those who wanted to research. I guess I was wrong in that regard.

 

[bpsydme]

It's odd, I always that the PsyD was for clinical psychology (which I assumed was therapy, a "shrink") and the PhD was solely for those who wanted to research. I guess I was wrong in that regard.

The way I see it is having a PhD allows you to 1) be a clinician/"shrink" 2) conduct independent research (i.e. have your own lab) 3) be a professor/teach at post-high school level.

Having a PsyD allows you to 1) be a clinician. I haven't seen any PsyDs as PI of a lab or on tenure track at a major university. I'm not sure how common that is.

 

[somedaypsych]

Patrick Corrigan @ IIT.

 

[Lisa44201]

The way I see it is having a PhD allows you to 1) be a clinician/"shrink" 2) conduct independent research (i.e. have your own lab) 3) be a professor/teach at post-high school level.

Having a PsyD allows you to 1) be a clinician. I haven't seen any PsyDs as PI of a lab or on tenure track at a major university. I'm not sure how common that is.

One of the best instructors at the University where I received my Master's was a PsyD. Only class I got a B in, too, and I was happy to have made it out with that.

Also, Timothy Brown, author of (as far as I'm concerned) one of the go-to books for SEM: http://www.amazon.com/Confirmatory-Analysis-Research-Methodology-Sciences/dp/1593852746

 

[BioBeaver]

So which (PhD in Clinical vs PsyD) would you guys recommend for someone who is more interested in being a clinician?

 

[Lisa44201]

So which (PhD in Clinical vs PsyD) would you guys recommend for someone who is more interested in being a clinician?

Either a balanced PhD program or a Master's, unless you can afford to pay $200k for a degree, in which case a PsyD from a reputable (albeit unfunded) program might work for you (hint: there aren't a lot that satisfy both criteria).

 

[PsySeeker]

Either a balanced PhD program or a Master's, unless you can afford to pay $200k for a degree, in which case a PsyD from a reputable (albeit unfunded) program might work for you (hint: there aren't a lot that satisfy both criteria).

There are some Psy.D programs with both funding and a good reputation.... The level of funding varies between institutions. One can certainly complete a Psy.D at a university psyc department based program for far less than 200k. What is with the sweeping generalizations?

 

[Lisa44201]

There are some Psy.D programs with both funding and a good reputation.... The level of funding varies between institutions. One can certainly complete a Psy.D at a university psyc department based program for far less than 200k. What is with the sweeping generalizations?

I'm a pessimist; I'll fully admit that. On the other hand, how many university PsyD programs are there, which are both reputable and funded? How many applicants think Baylor & Rutgers when they think PsyD, and how many think Argosy, Alliant, Forest, etc.?

 

[PsySeeker]

17 That are part of university psyc departments... 23 that are listed as affiliated but free-standing (Rutgers falls here btw) Granted these admit less per cohort than professional schools, and quality and cost will vary by institution... Many are reputable and partially funded. Gross and misleading generalizations is not pessisim. There are certainly plenty of poor Psy.D options, that doesn't mean there aren't any good options.

http://www.psichi.org/images/site_pages/7_1_norcross_t1.jpg

 

[PHD12]

17 That are part of university psyc departments... 23 that are listed as affiliated but free-standing (Rutgers falls here btw) Granted these admit less per cohort than professional schools, and quality and cost will vary by institution... Many are reputable and partially funded. Gross and misleading generalizations is not pessisim. There are certainly plenty of poor Psy.D options, that doesn't mean there aren't any good options.

http://www.psichi.org/images/site_pages/7_1_norcross_t1.jpg

You are making some misleading generalizations too. University based PsyD does not equal good outcomes or high quality on its own. You have to look at other factors (APA match, class size, funding, licensure percentage, EPPP pass rates). When you take these factors into consideration, you are talking about 5 programs more or less, whether university based, affiliated etc.

Many on the university and university-affiliated list you cite have poor outcomes and some are not accredited. University of SF, for example, is not even APA accredited so it doesn't meet a very low bar, but it's technically university based. It's a practitioner program, so what is the point if you can't get licensed or don't meet the minimum criteria for jobs, postdocs and internship?

I've also seen a good number of psychologists from top PsyD programs (the ones that are usually cited) in professor positions at medical schools or in research/director positions. There are also some at VA hospitals, but again the majority seem to be from those top tier PsyD programs. I am not surprised that they do very well considering how tough it is to get into a top PsyD program.

 

[PsySeeker]

You are making some misleading generalizations too. University based PsyD does not equal good outcomes or high quality on its own. You have to look at other factors (APA match, class size, funding, licensure percentage, EPPP pass rates). When you take these factors into consideration, you are talking about 5 programs more or less, whether university based, affiliated etc.

Many on the university and university-affiliated list you cite have poor outcomes and some are not accredited. University of SF, for example, is not even APA accredited so it doesn't meet a very low bar, but it's technically university based. It's a practitioner program, so what is the point if you can't get licensed or don't meet the minimum criteria for jobs, postdocs and internship?

I've also seen a good number of psychologists from top PsyD programs (the ones that are usually cited) in professor positions at medical schools or in research/director positions. There are also some at VA hospitals, but again the majority seem to be from those top tier PsyD programs. I am not surprised that they do very well considering how tough it is to get into a top PsyD program.

No... I didn't make any misleading generalizations... I listed some numbers from Norcross then clearly added "quality and cost will vary by institution" and "There are certainly plenty of poor Psy.D options, that doesn't mean there aren't any good options.". I stand by it... To be clear I agree with the rest of what you are saying...