I think I deeply regret entering a Counseling Psychology Program

[The Block Block]

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Hi all

I'm an advanced student in a Counseling Psychology program in the south (not specifying more for anonymity purposes), and yeah, I have some pretty serious issues with Counseling Psychology and have been doubting my training. I will also be the first to admit that this may just be my program and is not indicative of the field as a whole.

Anyways, my core issue throughout my training has been the extreme emphasis on common factors based training with my exposure to assessment and EBPs pretty lackluster compared to my clinical colleagues. I really do feel as though it can, at times, feel like non-directive supportive therapy is what faculty/supervisors were looking for or prioritizing in what they wanted to see in us clinically. I feel like a total black sheep in my program and can't but help wonder if I should have stuck to solely applying to clinical PhDs or if this is more of a program issue? I'm wondering if anyone else has ever felt this way and know that this can be a touchy subject?

 

[RxPsych]

Your experience in counseling psych is similar to what I observed in my counseling psych peers. Is there any way to seek experience in EBPs within the clinical department at your university? Maybe see if you can get a clinical supervisor for a semester in your internal clinic? At worst, maybe you have access to videos and/or clinician manuals for some EBPs you are interested in.

Another option is external practicum. Many of my counseling psych peers that were not satisfied with their mostly supportive therapy training sought external practicum at VAs and AMCs where they more than made up for the lack of EBPs in the internal clinic.

I would say try not to get discouraged at this point. Early in training, we are often limited in the types of therapy we experience via our internal clinics. Once you go on external practicum, internship, etc. you get much more experience in other therapeutic protocols if you are interested.

Edit: you mentioned you are an advanced student. Are you applying to internship soon? This would be a good opportunity to apply to sites that emphasize EBPs, and you can highlight your desire to gain experience in EBPs in your cover letters.

 

[The Block Block]

Your experience in counseling psych is similar to what I observed in my counseling psych peers. Is there any way to seek experience in EBPs within the clinical department at your university? Maybe see if you can get a clinical supervisor for a semester in your internal clinic? At worst, maybe you have access to videos and/or clinician manuals for some EBPs you are interested in.

Another option is external practicum. Many of my counseling psych peers that were not satisfied with their mostly supportive therapy training sought external practicum at VAs and AMCs where they more than made up for the lack of EBPs in the internal clinic.

I would say try not to get discouraged at this point. Early in training, we are often limited in the types of therapy we experience via our internal clinics. Once you go on external practicum, internship, etc. you get much more experience in other therapeutic protocols if you are interested.

Edit: you mentioned you are an advanced student. Are you applying to internship soon? This would be a good opportunity to apply to sites that emphasize EBPs, and you can highlight your desire to gain experience in EBPs in your cover letters.

This is a great idea and something I will try and seek out!

And yes, while I appreciate the attention to multicultural research that many counseling programs have really carved out, I still will be seeking out a site such as a VA or AMC where EBPs are the standard of treatment. Thanks for the perspective too, talking to clinical PhD students really helps give a grounded perspective as counseling psych can be quite insular.

 

[ccpsych16]

I went to a counseling psych program. Our professors drilled into us that a PhD is a research degree, and that was their focus. We learned basic therapy skills in introductory classes, but the bulk of our training in that area came from external practica. If you’re not getting the required experience, then there is either a lack of clinical training environments in your area, or your program does not partner with enough training sites. I would not lay this solely on the fact that your program is counseling. We had rigorous assessment and psychometric: experience in classes (2 semester assessment, 1 semester psychometrics) and practica. Many of my core classes featured both counseling and clinical students, and actually the clinical students made comments often that they wish they had more of OUR training. I trained in residential SUD, neuropsych, university counseling, VA, etc. My program allowed students to create their own practical by reaching out to local practices or organizations. See if your program will let you do that, which would give more options for all future students.

 

[cara susanna]

My school had a Counseling and Clinical PhD and our perception, as Clinical PhD students, was definitely that the Counseling program was less rigorous.

 

[Shiori]

If it helps, a lot of grad school is self-study. It's great when the classroom work makes it easier to get more seasoned perspectives, but I spent A LOT of time reading on my own. Your early training can help lay a solid foundation, but you will be driving your training for the majority of your career.

To echo the other comments, the good stuff happens in prac. Also, I know a few clinical people who might have benefitted from spending a little more time focusing on common factors.

 

[smalltownpsych]

The desire to learn more and fear that you are not being taught enough relative to others is a good sign in my mind. I am quite a few years out from education and training and continue to learn more and feel inadequate at times. For example, I am not even clear as to what focusing on common factors means. If it is referencing client centered techniques such as reflective listening in, fostering an empathic relationship, and good interview skills, then I would say that you might be getting good training as some of that is foundational. Trying to implement a treatment of any kind or even an assessment without developing rapport is not going to be effective. I train new clinicians all the time and where they need the most help and practice is how to communicate with people in distress or in need of our services. That’s being said, one way to fill the gaps from the school is by selecting training sites and internship and then postdoc that are strong in those other areas.

 

[Sanman]

Regret is a funny thing and you may have a different perspective down the line. Going to your program has two distinct goals:

1. Learning the foundations to be a good counseling psychologist.

2. Checking boxes to become a licensed professional and earn money.


You are in the program primarily for number 2 because it is the only way to accomplish that goal. Number 1 can be remedied at any point in your career. I, and several others here, have real world careers that are very different from what we trained for in grad school. Internship, post-doc, and beyond can help to fill in those gaps. Learning is a lifelong pursuit. School is just there to provide you with a piece of paper. Be more active in finding the opportunities that you want and check the boxes for the mandatory stuff.

 

[silverway]

If it makes you feel any better, I felt like my Clinical PhD taught me research and EBPs with less of a focus on the therapeutic process, common factors, etc. than I actually wanted. I remember walking out of classes thinking, "Okay I get the etiology and the cognitive distortions and the theoretical understanding of this disorder, but how do I actually handle it in the room?" I think many people wish their grad program was at least a little different. You're there long enough to see all the cracks up close.

Like everyone here is emphasizing, the nice thing is that you get to fill in the gaps and chart new waters with practica, internship, and even fellowship. I had zero health psychology experience until I entered my 5th year practicum, and after that practicum, I went on to a health psych internship and fellowship and it's where I work now because I discovered I really like it. I had a couple of supervisors with psychodynamic backgrounds that enriched my skillset beyond just standard CBT.

It might be frustrating to sit through however much of grad school you have left while getting training that feels subpar, but just don't be discouraged that this is all you're going to get, because it's not.

 

[ClinicalABA]

Our professors drilled into us that a PhD is a research degree

This is a bit of a misconception. A good Ph.D. program will require learning about and conducting research, but also involves equivalent or even more hours of clinical training and experience (per APPIC data) when compared with other degrees (Psyd) or training models (Counseling or Ed. Psych). Though most research positions are held by Ph.D.s, most Clinical Ph.D. grads go into clinical work vs. pure research positions.

The desire to learn more and fear that you are not being taught enough relative to others is a good sign in my mind. I am quite a few years out from education and training and continue to learn more and feel inadequate at times

This. Healthy doubting of one's own abilities and knowledge is a VERY good practice. At the time of your graduation, a lot of what you learned in your first few years (especially if it involved anything in a textbook), is either outdated or has been greatly expanded on with new research. For ancients like me, a lot what I learned in grad school is obsolete. That said, I did learn not to rely on what the professors taught me and how to continue my clinical learning on my own.

For example, I am not even clear as to what focusing on common factors means.

Glad I'm not the only one!

2. Checking boxes to become a licensed professional and earn money.

This is a BIG part of grad school, and why it's important to make sure your grad program meets at least minimum standards (e.g., APA accreditation) to do so. I'm currently in the process of getting another psych license, and I am SO psyched (pun intended) that I get to check the boxes that all my training was in APA accredited programs.

I, and several others here, have real world careers that are very different from what we trained for in grad school.

Yep- there is a difference of ~75 years in the age between the subjects of my dissertation and the clinical population I work with now. There's not a single test that I regularly administer now that I received training on in graduate school. The one that I use and rely on the most (the ADOS-2) was not even commercially available until after I graduated- I learned how to administer that one in a week spend in a hotel conference room a decade or so after I graduated. Incidentally, I first used the ADOS working side-by-side with another psychologist who was at my school the same time as I was, but I was in clinical and she was in Ed. Ph.D. programs.

As an advanced student, do your best to tailor your educational experiences (practicum and internship) to prepare you with a foundation for what you want to do. Further that focused training with a good post doc. After that, tailor your work experiences so that you get more specific training in areas of professional interest.

 

[ccpsych16]

This is a bit of a misconception. A good Ph.D. program will require learning about and conducting research, but also involves equivalent or even more hours of clinical training and experience (per APPIC data) when compared with other degrees (Psyd) or training models (Counseling or Ed. Psych). Though most research positions are held by Ph.D.s, most Clinical Ph.D. grads go into clinical work vs. pure research positions.

Absolutely, I didn’t fully agree with them but I understood their rationale. Often as students we would complain that, while that’s a nice idea in theory, most of us go on to clinical work, so they needed to do more on that end. But our professors weren’t budging. It also seems like some Gwen ton to professorship because of a strong dislike or disregard of clinical work, which influenced that too. We weren’t even a clinical science program.