Is a re-applicant at a disadvantage in this situation?

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alt91119

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From what I've gathered on these forums, if somebody applies, doesn't get in, and then reapplies, they are at a disadvantage or looked upon more poorly than a first-time applicant. Is this true if one applies early decision, gets rejected (and doesn't apply to any other schools that cycle), and then applies broadly to ~25 schools? I'm assuming there is no difference, but I want to make sure.

I've been informed by somebody "in the know" that I would have a really good shot of acceptance at my undergrad institution's med school's early decision program. I am less confident in that fact as I am actually slightly below the median stats (though I have far above average ECs/story). I'm currently debating between 1 or 2 gap years, but would be very happy with 2. Because this person "in the know" is adamant that I'd be a near guaranteed acceptance to this school that I'd really love to go to, but I realize that ED is never a guarantee, usually requires above-average stats, and totally ruins you for the remainder of the cycle should you not get in, I was thinking of applying ED this upcoming cycle as a kind of "hail mary." If I get in I would be unbelievably happy, but I would also be happy to have a second year off and reapply to 25 schools. BUT, I would only do this if my second cycle would have identical results as if I hadn't done ED first.

Sorry for being vague on "in the know," I can't give the actual details for anonymity's sake, but this person said they wouldn't normally even recommend this to people with 4.0/40, but I am a "unique case that is exactly what they are looking for" according to this person
 
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Gonnif basically answered everything there is about how you will be viewed as a re-applicant. Bottom line like he said that it's not always a negative, its just the process of being scrutinized that can often cause problems for re-applicants who really didn't improve from last cycle. Only thing I'll add is there definitely are some schools in their secondaries that will ask if you have applied to med school in the past in general, even if it wasn't to their school. One might make a hazardous guess that those schools that ask would take a closer look at someone's app who answers they previously have applied and been shut out, even if it wasn't to their school. Like I said it is a guess and we simply won't/can't know but it's worth adding in.

I will say like gonnif has pointed above having stats well above a school's median is not a 100% requirement to be a good ED candidate. There are a few people I know who went the ED route and their stats were around the schools median. The reason people are hesitant to recommend ED to schools to applicants is because a) ED for med school admission works way differently than it does for UG admission which we all have been through. Many may presume they work similarly for both when in fact they don't. b) ED often requires a specific fit to that school and/or ties to it. Very few applicants have those type of qualifications regardless of stats. So the key point with ED admission is that it's not a easy way out and only is relevant to a very select group of people.

I will also know I've heard of it being common for some schools where you express an interest in applying ED to actually set up a time to meet with you or at least do some kind of background review of your app to tell you whether you are competitive or not and should consider applying. Schools know what the ED commitment entails and how it screws you if you don't get in; odds are decent they won't just tell you lightly you have a strong chance of admission if you don't. Again, though, how much you trust this person's input is really the key to deciding what to make of what he said about you. But like I said, if a school directly tells you you are a great candidate and are "an exception to the rule" that should probably be taken as a positive sign.
 
GrapesofRath said:
Gonnif basically answered everything there is about how you will be viewed as a re-applicant. Bottom line like he said that it's not always a negative, its just the process of being scrutinized that can often cause problems for re-applicants who really didn't improve from last cycle. Only thing I'll add is there definitely are some schools in their secondaries that will ask if you have applied to med school in the past in general, even if it wasn't to their school. One might make a hazardous guess that those schools that ask would take a closer look at someone's app who answers they previously have applied and been shut out, even if it wasn't to their school. Like I said it is a guess and we simply won't/can't know but it's worth adding in.

I will say like gonnif has pointed above having stats well above a school's median is not a 100% requirement to be a good ED candidate. There are a few people I know who went the ED route and their stats were around the schools median. The reason people are hesitant to recommend ED to schools to applicants is because a) ED for med school admission works way differently than it does for UG admission which we all have been through. Many may presume they work similarly for both when in fact they don't. b) ED often requires a specific fit to that school and/or ties to it. Very few applicants have those type of qualifications regardless of stats. So the key point with ED admission is that it's not a easy way out and only is relevant to a very select group of people.

I will also know I've heard of it being common for some schools where you express an interest in applying ED to actually set up a time to meet with you or at least do some kind of background review of your app to tell you whether you are competitive or not and should consider applying. Schools know what the ED commitment entails and how it screws you if you don't get in; odds are decent they won't just tell you lightly you have a strong chance of admission if you don't. Again, though, how much you trust this person's input is really the key to deciding what to make of what he said about you. But like I said, if a school directly tells you you are a great candidate and are "an exception to the rule" that should probably be taken as a positive sign.
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Do you have an estimate of the number of schools that ask in their secondaries whether or not you have applied before?
 
WedgeDawg said:
From what I remember, it was most of them.
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So effectively, if I was to only apply to one school ED, not get in, and apply the next cycle to 25 other schools, I would be applying as if I got shut out by ~20 of the schools the first cycle (in terms of increased scrutiny by them)?
 
alt91119 said:
So effectively, if I was to only apply to one school ED, not get in, and apply to 25 other schools, I would be applying as if I got shut out by ~20 of the schools the first cycle (in terms of increased scrutiny by them)?
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That is a question that I do not have enough information to answer for you, sorry.
 
gonnif said:
From an AMCAS perspective, you are only a reapplicant to the individual schools you previously applied to. This potentially would have greater impact as a school you reapply to will have your entire previous application, essays, etc and can compare.

From an individual school perspective, you may be asked on the secondary if you applied previously. This is much less of an impact by an order of magnitude as the individual school will not have your previous application from AMCAS nor can they get it. This may be a short essay on secondary ("how have you improved your application?") or, more likely, a possible question at an interview. (What do you think your weakness was last cycle?") Again, these are minor in comparison to a reapplication as defined by AMCAS
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So just to be clear, a school seeing that I am on my second cycle by means of a secondary question will not meaningfully change the way in which they review my file? Ie, the majority of scrutiny for "reapplicants" actually comes in the form of a school seeing what you did new compared to the previous application and comparing new/old essays?

If my reason for a second cycle is "I only applied to 1 school ED because I'd have been happy going there or taking a second gap year" though couldn't that be a big red flag to them in terms of it potentially seeming like poor judgement? Additionally, wouldn't it make schools more hesitant to take me, either because they clearly weren't my first choice or potentially because my ED school was a research powerhouse and they are rural, etc?
 
Re-applicant here - when calling schools in order to see where I'm at in the process, I have had some hint that as a general rule they review first-time applicants before re-applicants. I won't name names, but these have tended to be the more prestigious ones and it doesn't sound like prestige is what you're after.

For the rest of the schools, I think my re-applicant status has actually helped me get noticed since I was able to show that I can identify my weaknesses and resolve them, which is harder to do as a first time applicant.
 
whatever5 said:
Re-applicant here - when calling schools in order to see where I'm at in the process, I have had some hint that as a general rule they review first-time applicants before re-applicants. I won't name names, but these have tended to be the more prestigious ones and it doesn't sound like prestige is what you're after.

For the rest of the schools, I think my re-applicant status has actually helped me get noticed since I was able to show that I can identify my weaknesses and resolve them, which is harder to do as a first time applicant.
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The school I've been advised to do ED at is a top 20. I want to go to a research-heavy school. In general my stats are a little borderline for top 20's, so this would be my best bet for them. If applying a second cycle normally, the majority of my schools would be mid-tiers with a few tops.

And my app is basically ready for this upcoming cycle - there's no real problems I could fix for if I applied to a normal number of schools the second cycle. The second year off would just be working the clinical job I'll be working this gap year that I really like and is really unique.
 
alt91119 said:
The school I've been advised to do ED at is a top 20. I want to go to a research-heavy school. In general my stats are a little borderline for top 20's, so this would be my best bet for them. If applying a second cycle normally, the majority of my schools would be mid-tiers with a few tops.

And my app is basically ready for this upcoming cycle - there's no real problems I could fix for if I applied to a normal number of schools the second cycle. The second year off would just be working the clinical job I'll be working this gap year that I really like and is really unique.
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Then it basically comes down to how much you believe your "informant", it's a gamble for sure. What I find hard to comprehend though is that if this person states you're a great fit and exactly what they're looking for, why wouldn't they accept you off regular decision?
 
gyngyn said:
The reasons for becoming a re-applicant may put one at a disadvantage.
There appear to be schools that get their better candidates from this pool, however.
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So you're saying that if I'm a solid applicant but don't get accepted ED for whatever reason, I won't be at a disadvantage? Ie, that the reason many reapplicants have issues is because they weren't very competitive the first time?
 
alt91119 said:
So you're saying that if I'm a solid applicant but don't get accepted ED for whatever reason, I won't be at a disadvantage? Ie, that the reason many reapplicants have issues is because they weren't very competitive the first time?
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The schools that ask will get your explanation. If they like it, you will not be harmed.
Some applicants are very academically accomplished and don't get in. Their DDx is quite different than a lower scoring candidate.
 
gyngyn said:
The schools that ask will get your explanation. If they like it, you will not be harmed.
Some applicants are very academically accomplished and don't get in. Their DDx is quite different than a lower scoring candidate.
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Would "I was
gyngyn said:
The schools that ask will get your explanation. If they like it, you will not be harmed.
Some applicants are very academically accomplished and don't get in. Their DDx is quite different than a lower scoring candidate.
Click to expand...
Is a combination of "I was deeply involved with research I wanted to continue at the school" and "my family lived nearby" likely to ruffle any feathers? Maybe with research de-emphasized schools?
 
Just to show how school specific this is 40% of Brody's class is people who have been rejected at least once from there(and are hence re-applicants). Considering only about 20% of the applicants a year are re-applicants and the re-applicant acceptance rate from what I've heard is lower, that's very high. Doesn't exactly sound like a school that has a blanket stigma against reapplicants. I've heard of Texas schools(anecdotally) also having a surprisingly large number of re-applicants in their matriculating classes. Bottom line----it's school specific but it is possible your state schools might look at re-applicants differently than an OOS private school.
 
alt91119 said:
Is a combination of "I was deeply involved with research I wanted to continue at the school" and "my family lived nearby" likely to ruffle any feathers? Maybe with research de-emphasized schools?
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See @GrapesofRath's observation above. Some schools will be delighted that you are a re-applicant because it means you are more likely to attend if accepted. Other schools may be less likely to interview you because of defects that are presumed to have prevented success in a previous cycle.
 
gyngyn said:
See @GrapesofRath's observation above. Some schools will be delighted that you are a re-applicant because it means you are more likely to attend if accepted. Other schools may be less likely to interview you because of defects that are presumed to have prevented success in a previous cycle.
Click to expand...

The bold is interesting, haven't really thought of that before. My uneducated guess is this might be most likely at someone's state school, is that something you have found to be true to any extent?
 
GrapesofRath said:
The bold is interesting, haven't really thought of that before. My uneducated guess is this might be most likely at someone's state school, is that something you have found to be true to any extent?
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I've seen plenty of private schools that seem to have a taste for re-applicants!
 
As you have seen from the other posts, this is going to be school-specific. I've seen plenty of posts from people who succeeded on the second cycle simply because they applied earlier on the second try, as a late app doomed them.

On the other end, gyngyn has posted that his school doesn't interview reapplicants.



alt91119 said:
From what I've gathered on these forums, if somebody applies, doesn't get in, and then reapplies, they are at a disadvantage or looked upon more poorly than a first-time applicant. Is this true if one applies early decision, gets rejected (and doesn't apply to any other schools that cycle), and then applies broadly to ~25 schools? I'm assuming there is no difference, but I want to make sure.

I've been informed by somebody "in the know" that I would have a really good shot of acceptance at my undergrad institution's med school's early decision program. I am less confident in that fact as I am actually slightly below the median stats (though I have far above average ECs/story). I'm currently debating between 1 or 2 gap years, but would be very happy with 2. Because this person "in the know" is adamant that I'd be a near guaranteed acceptance to this school that I'd really love to go to, but I realize that ED is never a guarantee, usually requires above-average stats, and totally ruins you for the remainder of the cycle should you not get in, I was thinking of applying ED this upcoming cycle as a kind of "hail mary." If I get in I would be unbelievably happy, but I would also be happy to have a second year off and reapply to 25 schools. BUT, I would only do this if my second cycle would have identical results as if I hadn't done ED first.

Sorry for being vague on "in the know," I can't give the actual details for anonymity's sake, but this person said they wouldn't normally even recommend this to people with 4.0/40, but I am a "unique case that is exactly what they are looking for" according to this person
Click to expand...
 
Goro said:
As you have seen from the other posts, this is going to be school-specific. I've seen plenty of posts from people who succeeded on the second cycle simply because they applied earlier on the second try, as a late app doomed them.

On the other end, gyngyn has posted that his school doesn't interview reapplicants.
Click to expand...
Never is a bit strong...
 
gonnif said:
From an AMCAS perspective, you are only a reapplicant to the individual schools you previously applied to. This potentially would have greater impact as a school you reapply to will have your entire previous application, essays, etc and can compare.

From an individual school perspective, you may be asked on the secondary if you applied previously. This is much less of an impact by an order of magnitude as the individual school will not have your previous application from AMCAS nor can they get it. This may be a short essay on secondary ("how have you improved your application?") or, more likely, a possible question at an interview. (What do you think your weakness was last cycle?") Again, these are minor in comparison to a reapplication as defined by AMCAS
Click to expand...


So the schools at which you are a reapplicant can see your previous AMCAS?
 
gyngyn said:
If they keep a copy.
Click to expand...
gonnif said:
It will be noted on the AMCAS that you were a previous applicant to that school. But as @gyngyn noted it depends if the school saved previous file . They do not have access directly to AMCAS for previous applications
Click to expand...

Weird. I was under the impression all schools dumped the files at the end of the cycle since they get so many applicants. Thanks for the information!
 
Goro said:
As you have seen from the other posts, this is going to be school-specific. I've seen plenty of posts from people who succeeded on the second cycle simply because they applied earlier on the second try, as a late app doomed them.

On the other end, gyngyn has posted that his school doesn't interview reapplicants.
Click to expand...

I thought he said he didn't reinterview those who already had an interview to begin with in the past.

On the subject of reinterviews: one school I interviewed at had a policy of reinterviewing applicants during the same cycle if they felt two interviewers viewed them very differently. Rare, but it has happened.
 
Doug Underhill said:
I thought he said he didn't reinterview those who already had an interview to begin with in the past.
Click to expand...
You remember correctly.
We haven't re-interviewed anyone in a very long time.
We do sometimes interview re-applicants.
 
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