Is a safety mudd-phudd an oxymoron?

[rishi]

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So I've been slacking a bit on my AMCAS. I was just putting the final touches and deciding where to apply when I realized that my list is just a touch MSTP-heavy 😱 ! So, I need to figure out what non-MSTP schools to apply to?

All in all, I think I'm kinda average. I got a 3.4 gpa and a 33 mcat. But I've got 3.5 years of research in a disease-oriented biochemistry lab. I have a couple local presentations/posters and a national conference poster. I've worked on a few projects independently. Most of them just died for one reason or another. So, I haven't gotten any publications yet. But I learned the science and would be more than well prepared to speak about it for hours and hours and hours (What can I say? Science is cool 😎 ) With a little luck 😉 , I may have a first-author manuscript submitted before I send out my secondaries. My real problem is that my volunteering is nearly non-existent. But I still think my personal statement demonstrates a competency regarding the practice of medicine.

So what do you think? Does a safety mudd-phudd exist? Any recommendations? Is anybody here actually in a non-MSTP mudd phudd?

PS: Is this application process like a grant proposal? Do you just get a high score the first time, change what the reviewers want and resubmit? I think we should push for a peer-reviewed application process. Whose with me?

 

[MSTP?]

So what do you think? Does a safety mudd-phudd exist? Any recommendations? Is anybody here actually in a non-MSTP mudd phudd?

The MD/PhD programs tend to have fewer spots (like only 2 for a few) than funded MSTP programs. That wouldn't make them a safety in my book.

Since there are so few mud-phud spots in general, I don't think any school can be considered a safety - even with stellar stats (which seem to dominate MD/PhD applicants - yours [and mine] are on the lower end of the spectrum from what I've heard).

Be willing to be considered for an MD drop-down as one form of a safety measure, start some volunteering/get clinical experience that you can at least talk about at your interviews, and apply to all of your state schools.

Good luck!

 

[sirdeadcat]

glad to know that i'm not the only one that's been procrastinating. Now back to the essays for me 🙁

 

[sirdeadcat]

so i'm hijacking the thread. Anyone know how screwed we are if we submit the primaries like tomorrow? or maybe even later this week?

 

[rishi]

so i'm hijacking the thread. Anyone know how screwed we are if we submit the primaries like tomorrow? or maybe even later this week?

I don't really think we'll (I'm trying to get mine in by the end of the week too) be in that much trouble so long as we get them in soon. From what I've read here, we just need to complete our files by sometime in mid to late september to be considered for the early interview dates in october. So, we should be able to make up time on the secondaries if we focus on it
Plus, I think more mudd phudder applicants will submit primaries a little bit later because of the extra essays (Is this the first year for the md/phd essays?).

So what non-mstp schools are you guys applying to? Or is everybody just goin MSTP? And if that is the case, then wouldn't you think it should be slightly easier to get into a non-mstp since all the top mudd-phudd applicants apply to only mstps?

 

[OddNath]

Hi guys

About submitting around now-- I think my own file wasn't complete until late August due to one rec letter that I waited for all summer (this was 2 years ago).

And to the OP, I was also the kind of applicant who was by no means a shoe-in to any program (3.4 gpa and 30 MCAT), but had enough going for me (4 fairly crappy papers and 5 years of research) that I got plenty of interviews and enough acceptances. Definitely apply to some non-MSTP MD/PhD programs-- if they're fully-funded and have research you like, then that's everything you need. Look for schools with numbers around yours or lower as a way to start searching. To give you an idea, I think I ended up turning down interviews from U Vermont, St.Louis U, Dartmouth, VCU, and a couple less-competitive schools in Chicago.

It's true that there aren't a whole lot of spots available, especially at the smaller programs, but the more interviews you get, the better your chances are.

 

[ClarinetGeek]

so i'm hijacking the thread. Anyone know how screwed we are if we submit the primaries like tomorrow? or maybe even later this week?

Obviously earlier is always better; however, you will be just fine if you still need to submit. I submitted my AMCAS by the end of August, and I got my secondaries in no time (~1-2 weeks depending on the school). Where I got myself in trouble, it submitting my secondarys last minute. Not a good idea... I still ended up with 10 interview offers for 15 secondaries completed. However, interviewing later hurt me when it came to acceptances. I got on to a lot of wait lists as a result of classes already full, etc etc. I did get two acceptances and I am very happy with where I am. Just don't freak out, but also don't make the procrastination thing a habit.

 

[mdphd2b]

So what do you think? Does a safety mudd-phudd exist? Any recommendations? Is anybody here actually in a non-MSTP mudd phudd?

Of course I applied back in '99, but back then my "safety" mud-phuds were VCU (funded), Tufts (funded), and BU where I did research for 3 yr (not funded). Pitt shot up to my 1st choice once I interviewed there, and I turned down all other offers when I FINALLY heard back from Pitt end of Feb (this was before the days of rolling admission...)

Good luck

 

[rahuldave]

Rishi,

All programs are competitive ... although your numbers are low-ish (I had a 3.8 GPA, 33 MCAT) your research experience is quite extensive -- that counts for a lot. There are a lot of good non-MSTP programs out there, but you have to do some legwork; some I think are better than some MSTP programs. MSTP is only one source of funding for MD/PhD programs; the NIH has other grant mechanisms, and sometimes the med schools fund their own MD/PhD programs. I personally think the whole MSTP vs non-MSTP issues is overblown.

What to look for in a program?
- How many students come in each year? 1 or 2 every other year? Or do they have at least several students come in each year?
- How strong/cohesive is the MD/PHD program. Are they slapping an MD and a PhD programs together, or is there truly an MD/PhD program that will "know what to do with you" and serve your career needs to be a 'double doctor'
- Research opportunities available / funding / mentors / quality of grad school
- Quality of med school / residency placements / teaching & curriculum style
- Support for MD/PHD prog. amongst Med school as well as grad school

Almost every med school has an MD/pHD program. Most of these fall out when you ask the first question I put out. When I applied, I made a list of med schools I was interested in. Almost all (but one) had MD/PhD programs and I applied to their MD/PhD programs. I am in a non-MSTP MD/PhD program and the training and preparation I'm receiving is top-notch.
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Also, I think having at least some clinical experience is important. You are clearly a research stud. The question that remains is why you're interested in the med school part, what do you know about med school, about being a doctor, etc?

You can address this by applying to PhD-only programs at med schools. I doubt you'll have much trouble getting into a good PhD program. During those 5-7 years, you continue to do some clinical experiences (a little bit), meet with the MD/PhD program directors and med school faculty, get to know some of the faculty and slide into the MD program after your PhD. Or you may be able to transfer to the MD/PhD program depending on the school. I know several people who've taken that approach ...
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Applications are NOT like grant applications! You really want to try to apply only once. Get everything together, present yourself the strongest you can and then apply. You'll either get accepted or rejected. If you get rejected, you won't receive any useful feedback (at least from med schools).

Always keep the end in sight. There are a thousand ways to skin a cat ... just know where you want to be in the end and you'll find a way to get there.

Best wishes

Rahul

So I've been slacking a bit on my AMCAS. I was just putting the final touches and deciding where to apply when I realized that my list is just a touch MSTP-heavy 😱 ! So, I need to figure out what non-MSTP schools to apply to?

All in all, I think I'm kinda average. I got a 3.4 gpa and a 33 mcat. But I've got 3.5 years of research in a disease-oriented biochemistry lab. I have a couple local presentations/posters and a national conference poster. I've worked on a few projects independently. Most of them just died for one reason or another. So, I haven't gotten any publications yet. But I learned the science and would be more than well prepared to speak about it for hours and hours and hours (What can I say? Science is cool 😎 ) With a little luck 😉 , I may have a first-author manuscript submitted before I send out my secondaries. My real problem is that my volunteering is nearly non-existent. But I still think my personal statement demonstrates a competency regarding the practice of medicine.

So what do you think? Does a safety mudd-phudd exist? Any recommendations? Is anybody here actually in a non-MSTP mudd phudd?

PS: Is this application process like a grant proposal? Do you just get a high score the first time, change what the reviewers want and resubmit? I think we should push for a peer-reviewed application process. Whose with me?