Is AF HPSP requiring AEGD programs? Or are they moving toward that?

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isittoolate

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I was told by AF HPSP 4th years at my school that they were required to apply to AEGD programs.

Some of them did not even submit any letters of recommendation (intentionally to try NOT to be accepted) but were STILL accepted...Now they are unsure if it would be in their best interest to turn down the AEGD-but this is another issue.

My question is the following: I have heard rumors that AF HPSP might be considering requiring AEGD programs in the future...does anyone know if this holds any validity?
 
I've heard of this before. I think you still have to apply, you do not have to accept.
 
@Hedgy you are correct. So much so, that it is written into every Army HPSP contract.
 
isittoolate said:
What would you say about an AF HPSPer who wrote that he was required to apply and accept a residency?

http://usafdds.blogspot.com
Click to expand...

I think the training in an AEGD is an amazing way to develop one's skill set, which is why I hope to do one regardless of whether it is required or not.

That said, I don't think it is fair to sign HPSPers onto a binding contract, under the terms of 4 years AD and 4 years IRR, and then to compel them to do an AEGD and retroactively make it 5 years AD for a 4 year HPSP scholarship.
 
Incis0r said:
and then to compel them to do an AEGD and retroactively make it 5 years AD for a 4 year HPSP scholarship.
Click to expand...

Nobody can COMPEL you do anything that will incur obligation. Any additional training in the military that involves additional obligation/active duty time is voluntary. The military can (and in the Army does) make you apply for the AEGD. If you are selected it is entirely up to you to accept the training or not with full knowledge that it can incur an obligation neutral training time.
 
USArmyHPSP said:
Nobody can COMPEL you do anything that will incur obligation. Any additional training in the military that involves additional obligation/active duty time is voluntary. The military can (and in the Army does) make you apply for the AEGD. If you are selected it is entirely up to you to accept the training or not with full knowledge that it can incur an obligation neutral training time.
Click to expand...

Absolutely- I agree- and I would do a residency If accepted for it. But in that link that isittoolate posted, the Air Force HPSPer was required to apply and accept the HPSP. He didn't have a choice to turn it down.

Here is the exact quote:
"With that being said, if you absolutely do not want to do a residency then think twice about the HPSP at all! You are now required to not only apply for, but also accept, a spot in an AEGD residency. That's right, no longer optional!"
 
Incis0r said:
I think the training in an AEGD is an amazing way to develop one's skill set, which is why I hope to do one regardless of whether it is required or not.

That said, I don't think it is fair to sign HPSPers onto a binding contract, under the terms of 4 years AD and 4 years IRR, and then to compel them to do an AEGD and retroactively make it 5 years AD for a 4 year HPSP scholarship.
Click to expand...

As was ntoed above
Incis0r said:
Absolutely- I agree- and I would do a residency If accepted for it. But in that link that isittoolate posted, the Air Force HPSPer was required to apply and accept the HPSP. He didn't have a choice to turn it down.

Here is the exact quote:
"With that being said, if you absolutely do not want to do a residency then think twice about the HPSP at all! You are now required to not only apply for, but also accept, a spot in an AEGD residency. That's right, no longer optional!"
Click to expand...

You always have a choice to turn it down - by not signing the agreement for training. He may not have fully understood his rights in that situation, but they cannot force you to incur additional service time.
 
Incis0r said:
Here is the exact quote:
"With that being said, if you absolutely do not want to do a residency then think twice about the HPSP at all! You are now required to not only apply for, but also accept, a spot in an AEGD residency."
Click to expand...

This is from his blog, and I wish I had some money for every time I've stated facts to someone and they heard something else. This seems to be especially true with my own kids.

I put it in the category of "I read it on the internet, it has to be true" and take it with a grain of salt.
 
OK, I'm going to rant, bear with me....

Why would you NOT do an AEGD? I find it incredibly arrogant (and stupid) that anyone can possibly think they don't have anything else to learn/improve upon after dental school graduation. You also get a full officer's salary!!
Do you really think 1 additional year will impact your life that bad that you cannot afford to potentiall get 5 years worth of experience?
Just do it!
 
isittoolate said:
I was told by AF HPSP 4th years at my school that they were required to apply to AEGD programs.

Some of them did not even submit any letters of recommendation (intentionally to try NOT to be accepted) but were STILL accepted...Now they are unsure if it would be in their best interest to turn down the AEGD-but this is another issue.

My question is the following: I have heard rumors that AF HPSP might be considering requiring AEGD programs in the future...does anyone know if this holds any validity?
Click to expand...

I just commissioned in November and when I signed my paperwork the contract had a statement saying you would apply and you would accept if you were selected. A 1 year AEGD would be great in the long run. Plus, your getting paid almost 100k to study that year ...
 
Let's not forget doing an AEGD is the only way to get qualified to do more complicated cases/have your priority of base options in the military.
 
aqz said:
Let's not forget doing an AEGD is the only way to get qualified to do more complicated cases/have your priority of base options in the military.
Click to expand...

Yeah I highly doubt it. Many people who went through AEGD or GPR still get put on the amalgam line once they get to their first tour.
 
The air force blog guy apparently got his 15th choice after an AEGD.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk
 
Most recent newsletter for AF indicates that AF HPSPers are REQUIRED to apply via HPSP contract. Additional information indicates that the AEGD-1 Application is published and early July, deadline is mid-September. Also, AEGD-1 Board is in mid-October (Fall of D4)- notification of assignment is emailed in November of D4 year.

As of right now there are 11 AEGD-1 Bases:
Andrews/Bolling (DC area)- not sure if this counts as 1 or 2 AEGD bases
Barksdale (LA)
Eglin (FL)
Langley (VA)
Nellis (NV- Vegas area)
Offut (NE)
Scott (IL)
Travis (CA- SFish)
USAF Academy (CO)
Wright-Patterson (OH)

Is there anyone that is currently in an AEGD-1 or recently finished one at one of the above bases? Just hoping to get an idea of the various clinical experiences as they will vary greatly from base to base.
 
In the Air Force, you have to apply but don't have to accept if selected for the residency. At least this was the case in 2013. Maybe it has changed but I can't imagine any previously signed contracts could be changed at this point.

I got my second choice after an AEGD (My 1-3 were all my top choice because they were all overseas but for the sake of being completely honest as far as the list goes). 4/8 residents in my group got top 5 or 6 bases. 2 volunteered for Korea to try and get a follow on. 1 got a base not even in his top 20. One initially got his top choice but had a last minute change to a less desirable base.

In the Air Force, you can not be stationed overseas as your first assignment without an AEGD. You will not be allowed to do many of the things that AEGD graduates will do (At least until you can become credentialed. This CAN be a complicated process). Credentialed just means that you have proven to someone in the Air Force/Chain of command that you can reliably and with a consistent level of competence that you can do a specified procedure. You will have to do this in a supervised process which can be much like dental school depending on the base and leadership. Some of these procedures may include oral and IV sedations, 3rds, Simple and complex endo, Retreats, perio surgery, multi unit pros, restoring posterior implants. Even if you left dental school with a moderate level of experience with these things, you still wont be able to do them in the Air Force without going through the credentialing process. Doing an AEGD allows you to become credentialed in some, if not all of the above. Also, if you don't do an AEGD, more than 80% of everyone else around you will have more training than you and will automatically look better than you when it comes to special assignments, awards, advancement, etc. Whether it is a good thing or not, being a Vanilla just doesn't look as good. I know each service may vary in this process. An AEGD has a whole list of pros and cons but I just wanted to give a taste of what it means to your practice of dentistry within the Air Force.

There are so many factors that are involved in handing out assignments. No one really knows all the details except for the people that work as the assignment officers. Recommendations from your residency director, Stratifications from residency instructors, competency in complex procedures like endo and 3rds, how much military bearing you exhibit, how much you drive others crazy, can you hold your own without a specialist down the hall, how many spots are promised as follow-ons for people who went to undesirable locations voluntarily, how many spots are available of O-3s. I am sure I haven't even scratched the surface. And when it is all said and done, even if you are God's gift to dentistry and the Air Force/Navy/Army, you could still end up in Minot ND, Cannon NM, or Afghanistan if the service needed you there.

I thoroughly enjoyed my AEGD and am glad I did it. I gained a ton of experience in things I never was allowed to touch in dental school. It allowed me to have an amazing assignment at an awesome base overseas. Even if you plan on getting out after your first assignment, I think it is a good return on your investment of time.

Sorry so lengthy and maybe a little off topic.
 
Roto Picante said:
In the Air Force, you have to apply but don't have to accept if selected for the residency. At least this was the case in 2013. Maybe it has changed but I can't imagine any previously signed contracts could be changed at this point.

I got my second choice after an AEGD (My 1-3 were all my top choice because they were all overseas but for the sake of being completely honest as far as the list goes). 4/8 residents in my group got top 5 or 6 bases. 2 volunteered for Korea to try and get a follow on. 1 got a base not even in his top 20. One initially got his top choice but had a last minute change to a less desirable base.

In the Air Force, you can not be stationed overseas as your first assignment without an AEGD. You will not be allowed to do many of the things that AEGD graduates will do (At least until you can become credentialed. This CAN be a complicated process). Credentialed just means that you have proven to someone in the Air Force/Chain of command that you can reliably and with a consistent level of competence that you can do a specified procedure. You will have to do this in a supervised process which can be much like dental school depending on the base and leadership. Some of these procedures may include oral and IV sedations, 3rds, Simple and complex endo, Retreats, perio surgery, multi unit pros, restoring posterior implants. Even if you left dental school with a moderate level of experience with these things, you still wont be able to do them in the Air Force without going through the credentialing process. Doing an AEGD allows you to become credentialed in some, if not all of the above. Also, if you don't do an AEGD, more than 80% of everyone else around you will have more training than you and will automatically look better than you when it comes to special assignments, awards, advancement, etc. Whether it is a good thing or not, being a Vanilla just doesn't look as good. I know each service may vary in this process. An AEGD has a whole list of pros and cons but I just wanted to give a taste of what it means to your practice of dentistry within the Air Force.

There are so many factors that are involved in handing out assignments. No one really knows all the details except for the people that work as the assignment officers. Recommendations from your residency director, Stratifications from residency instructors, competency in complex procedures like endo and 3rds, how much military bearing you exhibit, how much you drive others crazy, can you hold your own without a specialist down the hall, how many spots are promised as follow-ons for people who went to undesirable locations voluntarily, how many spots are available of O-3s. I am sure I haven't even scratched the surface. And when it is all said and done, even if you are God's gift to dentistry and the Air Force/Navy/Army, you could still end up in Minot ND, Cannon NM, or Afghanistan if the service needed you there.

I thoroughly enjoyed my AEGD and am glad I did it. I gained a ton of experience in things I never was allowed to touch in dental school. It allowed me to have an amazing assignment at an awesome base overseas. Even if you plan on getting out after your first assignment, I think it is a good return on your investment of time.

Sorry so lengthy and maybe a little off topic.
Click to expand...

You don't get to choose which base you're assigned to for the AEGD right?

If you don't mind sharing, which bases were you assigned to for the AEGD and after the AEGD? When were you able to go overseas?

Also, you mentioned some people "volunteered" for Korea. Is that not a popular option?
 
aqz said:
You don't get to choose which base you're assigned to for the AEGD right?

If you don't mind sharing, which bases were you assigned to for the AEGD and after the AEGD? When were you able to go overseas?

Also, you mentioned some people "volunteered" for Korea. Is that not a popular option?
Click to expand...

As with any military assignment, no base choosing really occurs, especially at the O-3 level without specialty residency training. You get to do a residency dream sheet. I got the 7th on my list. For the AF, most everyone wants either Eglin, The Academy, or Travis. There are a few in the midwest and Ill say I was at one of those. We ended up really loving it though. My base right out of residency was in Europe. As I understand it there are 10-15 OCONUS bases that aren't in Alaska and Hawaii. A handful in the UK including Lakenheath and Mildenhall (There may be 1 or 2 smaller bases with a couple dentists at each in the UK), GK, Spangdahlem, Ramstein, Aviano, Incirlik, Guam, Kadena, Yokota, Misawa, One other one in Turkey, Osana and Kunsan Korea. I may be missing some.

Usually assignments to Korea are for 1 year and are unaccompanied meaning the AF doesn't pay for you to bring your family. They do not pay for dependent housing, transport, medical care. So if you bring them, you are mostly on your own. That doesn't mean that if they had a medical emergency while you are there, they wouldnt help. It just means your basic access to medical care is limited. So its not a very attractive option for a large portion of the dentist population. For others it is an adventure and they say they will "try" and get you a follow on. The two that volunteered, neither had it in writing which base they would get as a follow on. One entered perio right from Korea and I am not sure what the other one wanted.
 
Hey all, that's my blog by the way. I was not forced to accept my AEGD spot but I was the last class for that to be the case, sorry for the misunderstanding on the blog.

However, all AEGD residents were gathered in San Antonio in mid-April 2015 and did some fun things as a whole Air Force AEGD dental unit, it was fun! We had some lectures on officership and the dental corps as a whole. One of the things they talked about were residencies and they made ALL of us aware that we were the last class with the option to not attend an AEGD (if accepted). I found this out shortly AFTER a student sent me this email on April 10, 2015:

"Do you have a copy of the original contract with the Air Force you were sent? I would be interested to see if the AEGD section is different on mine. I have been told that you have to apply for an AEGD but you don't have to accept it. I have also been told that it might eventually be required. In my contract it says, " If selected for training in an AEGD program, I will be required to attend the AEGD program." Does that mean that it is now required as of this year, or has this been in the contract for years and they don't enforce it?".

EDIT: / This was my email reply: "I can't find any wording like that in my application. In fact, I dug up an old email letting us know that if we want to decline an acceptance that we must do it quickly so they can get someone off the alternate list.

That's about all I have for you, but an interesting development if it means what it says.

Keep me posted if you get any more information on that, I'd like to know for anyone considering an AEGD or the HPSP in the future. I would certainly get clarification if I were you but with all that said, I do think the AEGD has been good and is definitely worth it." /



This was a huge "holy crap" for me so I pointed it out on the blog. However, this wording was not in my contract but apparently, one year later, it's there now. Between wording from the contract and some very very high-ups in the Air Force dental corps admitting this to every AEGD resident in the country in April 2015, it's definitely true. Remember, there aren't enough spots for everyone so you could still just straight up not be accepted.

Edit #2: / Whether this applies to only new HPSP students or students currently in dental school, I'm not 100% sure. But it's obviously something that's being worked into the deal now. /
 
Last edited:
MatthewLeeDDS said:
Hey all, that's my blog by the way. I was not forced to accept my AEGD spot but I was the last class for that to be the case, sorry for the misunderstanding on the blog.

However, all AEGD residents were gathered in San Antonio in mid-April 2015 and did some fun things as a whole Air Force AEGD dental unit, it was fun! We had some lectures on officership and the dental corps as a whole. One of the things they talked about were residencies and they made ALL of us aware that we were the last class with the option to not attend an AEGD (if accepted). I found this out shortly AFTER a student sent me this email on April 10, 2015:

"Do you have a copy of the original contract with the Air Force you were sent? I would be interested to see if the AEGD section is different on mine. I have been told that you have to apply for an AEGD but you don't have to accept it. I have also been told that it might eventually be required. In my contract it says, " If selected for training in an AEGD program, I will be required to attend the AEGD program." Does that mean that it is now required as of this year, or has this been in the contract for years and they don't enforce it?".

EDIT: / This was my email reply: "I can't find any wording like that in my application. In fact, I dug up an old email letting us know that if we want to decline an acceptance that we must do it quickly so they can get someone off the alternate list.

That's about all I have for you, but an interesting development if it means what it says.

Keep me posted if you get any more information on that, I'd like to know for anyone considering an AEGD or the HPSP in the future. I would certainly get clarification if I were you but with all that said, I do think the AEGD has been good and is definitely worth it." /



This was a huge "holy crap" for me so I pointed it out on the blog. However, this wording was not in my contract but apparently, one year later, it's there now. Between wording from the contract and some very very high-ups in the Air Force dental corps admitting this to every AEGD resident in the country in April 2015, it's definitely true. Remember, there aren't enough spots for everyone so you could still just straight up not be accepted.
Click to expand...
Call me naive, but it seems kinda of unethical for them to add that clause to your contract. It doesn't seem like recruiters are any wiser to this change. Their pamphlets should no longer say three years minimum either if you arent given a choice whether or not your commitment will be extended.

Sure, it is your responsibility to read every letter of your contract. But if you went for a job interview and negotiated a 100k salary, how acceptable would it be for your employer to give you a contract that states you will be paid 90k instead?

Considering that some applicants have the option of choosing between different branches, by the time you get to see your contract it will be way too late to choose a different branch.
 
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