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Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Mdude, Nov 30, 2008.
Just curious. Please, no flame war. If you don't know the answer, don't insert your opinion.
No...although being a URM might help you to stand out. Most programs desire diversity in their class
You're aware that's what affirmative action is, right?
You are my hero Milkman.
Yes, it is used wherever certain minorities are underrepresented, which is definitely the case in medicine.
No. It is not a factor in the residency match which is strictly merit based.
So why does 90% of SDN have their panties in a bundle over "unqualified URMs getting into med school" ? If these terrible people are being 'let' in, then in theory they would just wind up in the least competitive specialties with unfilled residency spots anyway. Serving the needy and doing other filthy things.
Because a scapgoat is needed for when they don't get their dream residency spot.
Oh lordy here we go.
I hope not, what a scary joke that would be.
It depends on the residency director whos chosing people. Usually not, though some may want a more "diverse" group.
Actually, I can be of expertise here, because I'm in the process of writing a paper on cultural competency, and I read a long paper on how to increase it.
Example: Some town in AZ or CA has a hospital near or in the middle of a large Mexican population. The goal of most hospitals is to have certain proportions. In this case, one of the most important is the percentage of Hispanic staff, and especially doctors and nurses. So, if 65% of patients that go to this hospital are Hispanic, the hospital really wants to have a staff that is also 65% Hispanic, see what I am saying? One of the ways that they increase the percentage of Hispanics in the staff is to set up residencies at that hospital specifically designed to get Hispanic residents. So they set up this residency for only Hispanics, have a few positions, and get some Hispanic residents in there.
So yes, AA does exist, to a certain degree, in residency. First, there's programs, like the one above, that are common. But second, for any residency program, a hospital might want more of a certain race, and believe it or not, that race might be WHITE! However, you really can't know about any racially motivated goals of the people letting you into the residency, so its hard to take advantage of this. But race does come into play in residency because every hospital wants certain proportions of minorities and majorities, and they want "under-represented" minority docs available for "under-represented" minority patients. This can avoid a ton of problems similar to the whole Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down Hmong incident.
I actually feel like I was able to make an intelligent post! wow...
It's almost always done by committee, so it's not like a single person's bias is going to control this. A lot of programs like a diverse class of folks who are otherwise qualified. Bear in mind that in a match system, even though you rank someone highly, it doesn't mean you get them. So programs tend to rank many times more people than they need, and don't have a good sense of how deep into the ranking they will fall. So a program can end up all white, but that doesn't mean they didn't rank a lot of minorities toward the top of their match ranking. I doubt any program approaches the match with an affirmative action goal, but in putting together a diverse group, some impact may be seen.
We, as in SDN, just can't seem to get past this AA thing. Boy oh boy! I hope this one doesn't get ugly. In before the lock. God bless!
Law2Doc gave an excellent description of how the match works and the impact that has on the answer to this question.
The more important question is "is there racism in the residency selection process" and the answer is yes, big time. There are lots of programs who have not seen a minority on staff for the past 20 years. I wonder why us white folks keep assuming diversty translates to less oportunities for us. If a minority takes your spot, remember another white guy could have easily done the same.
I meant that it isn't official policy.
I've read studies regarding discrimination in the job application process involving identically standardized applicants of varying ethnicites/races. Black applicants were half as likely to get a job offer than White applicants even though both groups had the same education, experience, etc. I wonder what the results would be if this was replicated using residency interviews. Hmmm...
Some people like to pretend that racism doesn't exist just because Obama is PE, but I guess they forget that there are no AAs in the Senate so we haven't come *that* far.
And some people also like to pretend that just because there are no black people in X position The Man is out to get them and keeping them down.
Of course the reality is somewhere between these extremes. We cannot just say "AA" and "URM" and place these labels on people. That just puts them in a box and everything we see from that point on is the box talking/walking/etc, not the actual person.
The truth is, there is a mix. There are some URMs who are well-qualified and even without AA would have gotten into X medical school. In contrast, there are some URMs who are not qualified and would not get into those schools without AA.
It follows that there are non-URMs that would get into X medical school under an AA system (like in the status quo). In addition, there are also non-URMs that would NOT get into X medical school even with out AA.
So basically, just work hard, do your best, and stop attributing your failures to external forces that are beyond your control anyways.
Hahaha little has changed.
What a useless post concerning med school when the topic is residency!
Wow you have a bad attitude. Just replace med school with residency. Sorry you couldn't figure it out for yourself. It is the pre-allo forum after all.
hmm, not sure why you're attacking me, but I thought her post was pretty rude and the same goes for yours.
Why yes, it is indeed the pre-allo forum! A place where immature snots who can't admit they're wrong is not a rarity!
My favorite!! <3
This question has already been well answered. If you wish to discuss the original topic at hand, please stick to the topic and avoid being disrespectful and rude to other members. Rudeness does nothing to promote understanding of issues, and insulting other members is a violation of our Terms of Service.
I thought the goal of most hospitals was to minister to the sick and injured.
Who knows if it officially used or not...but even if they don't say they are using affirmative action they could still be doing it although not "officially"
This question was never really answered.
good post, but you broke the commandment
Thou shalt never question the URM advantage
and men will be at an advantage when applying to OB/GYN or peds and women will have an edge in many of the surgical subspecialties and attractive people will have an advantage in all specialties. Just suck it up.
and become more attractive.
Yes it is used in many ways or forms IMO. If going to offshore schools automatically disqualifies some applicants for some residencies, I would call that 'affirmative action' for US grads... It is always easy to complain about injustice when one is at the other end of the stick, but forget about injustice perpetrating on others... By the way, I am saying that as a US student.
Are you from the future?
It is an 8 year old thread. And nothing has changed.
2008 was 6 years ago. still wondering though, if AA stops with med school admissions.
Ha! I swear...I can count. I'm sure others' biases and preferences filter through the process somehow. But like anything else, do your best, be your best, and it shouldn't really matter.