Is anyone else worried about scary debt levels and declining reimbursements?

[HughMyron]

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So, I went to a state school (7K tuition, 15K other costs/year) and graduated debt free. But I'm really worried about gigantic medical school costs, especially in light of declining reimbursements. What I fear most is the possibility of being 400K or 500K in debt with a low-paying (<200K or so) job as an attending. Oh, and being forced to work crazy hours (as an attending) just to get out from the debt pile.

Is this enough to dissuade people from medicine? I've been thinking more and more about the future of medicine, and I'm getting really scared for my life.

 

[deleted357625]

Do HPSP or FAP even though money shouldn't be the main consideration

 

[HughMyron]

Do HPSP or FAP even though money shouldn't be the main consideration

Money is not the issue. The idea isn't to drive a Lambo, the idea is to provide a good life for my (future) children. I'm concerned that won't be possible at this rate haha.

 

[MedPR]

So, I went to a state school (7K tuition, 15K other costs/year) and graduated debt free. But I'm really worried about gigantic medical school costs, especially in light of declining reimbursements. What I fear most is the possibility of being 400K or 500K in debt with a low-paying (<200K or so) job as an attending. Oh, and being forced to work crazy hours (as an attending) just to get out from the debt pile.

Is this enough to dissuade people from medicine? I've been thinking more and more about the future of medicine, and I'm getting really scared for my life.

No. Been poor all my life. I can take it until I'm 45 and done with loans.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[deleted357625]

Money is not the issue. The idea isn't to drive a Lambo, the idea is to provide a good life for my (future) children. I'm concerned that won't be possible at this rate haha.

I said do HPSP or FAP - military scholarship program that pays full tuition for med school or FAP that pays you 20-30K more than an average resident to pay off loans. I meant don't do these programs if money is your main consideration since you will have to pay back as a physician in the military for the amount of time they paid for your education. Or...you can apply to the military med school - free of charge.

 

[aspiring20]

So, I went to a state school (7K tuition, 15K other costs/year) and graduated debt free. But I'm really worried about gigantic medical school costs, especially in light of declining reimbursements. What I fear most is the possibility of being 400K or 500K in debt with a low-paying (<200K or so) job as an attending. Oh, and being forced to work crazy hours (as an attending) just to get out from the debt pile.

Is this enough to dissuade people from medicine? I've been thinking more and more about the future of medicine, and I'm getting really scared for my life.

you will most likely not have close to 400k in medical school debt. and even if you have 400k in debt, a 200k salary is still VERY substantial. there are people with 150k in debt making less than 50 k a year.

 

[HughMyron]

you will most likely not have close to 400k in medical school debt. and even if you have 400k in debt, a 200k salary is still VERY substantial. there are people with 150k in debt making less than 50 k a year.

I meant debt after residency. The problem is that residents don't make enough money to pay back principle on the loan, so it just balloons with compound interest huehue.

But what's scary is that some schools literally charge students 75K, which with living expenses means 100K+/year.

 

[Narmerguy]

So, I went to a state school (7K tuition, 15K other costs/year) and graduated debt free. But I'm really worried about gigantic medical school costs, especially in light of declining reimbursements. What I fear most is the possibility of being 400K or 500K in debt with a low-paying (<200K or so) job as an attending. Oh, and being forced to work crazy hours (as an attending) just to get out from the debt pile.

Is this enough to dissuade people from medicine? I've been thinking more and more about the future of medicine, and I'm getting really scared for my life.

😕 Your "life?" I think you should try searching for the 50 or so threads on reimbursement rates and debt to get a good idea of what people think on this. Even assuming you could somehow manage to accumulate 400-500K debt, you basically just modify your lifestyle accordingly. You'll have less discretionary spending money and probably end up paying for longer. However, there's not really a real possibility of you not being able to pay back that debt on a doctor salary. You may not live as fancy a lifestyle as you originally dreamed, but as far as your survival is concerned you'll be fine.

 

[aspiring20]

I meant debt after residency. The problem is that residents don't make enough money to pay back principle on the loan, so it just balloons with compound interest huehue.

But what's scary is that some schools literally charge students 75K, which with living expenses means 100K+/year.

that's indeed scary

 

[Fivo]

No. Been poor all my life. I can take it until I'm 45 and done with loans.

+1

 

[circulus vitios]

25 years of IBR repayment is an option, as are 10 or 30 year normal repayment schedules. You could always fake your death or skip the country if it was really bad. 🙂

 

[Frazier]

Anybody else worried?

Yes, I am worried about it. That is why:

1) I am going to put a lot of weight on finaid when it comes time for my final decision. I Hope to keep med school debt < 150k.

1a) Moonlight during residency (no surg) to significantly pay down loans.

2) I am striving to further strengthen my acumen every day, so, by the time I'm done with residency, I won't be one of the residents thinking "Starting a business? Overhead? Employees? " My background already puts me on great footing, but there is always more to learn and new experiences to be had.

Now, returning to the original question... I agree with Narmerguy, "However, there's not really a real possibility of you not being able to pay back that debt on a doctor salary. You may not live as fancy a lifestyle as you originally dreamed, but as far as your survival is concerned you'll be fine."

...Neither you or I will have a terribly hard time paying back our debt (for those students entering 10 years from now, when average COA is >100k per year, it's a different story); however, I still want to have a lifestyle that I desire. With decreasing reimbursements and increasing debt, that means you need to work smarter instead of simply harder on the clinical-side, while being completely willing to jump into the business-side of medicine as well.

 

[MedPR]

+1

Haha seriously though, I've never had more than ~$785 in my bank account at one time and the only reason that number is so high is because that's what my paycheck looks like every 2 weeks.

I'm not the typical starry-eyed premed who says stuff like "I'll be a doctor and that's all I care about. Long hours and terrible pay (residency) will be so worth it because I get to save lives!" I call bs on that. Yea, it'll be awesome, but making $40k while working 80 hours/week = a lower hourly wage than I make right now.

To me it's just paying dues. Everyone starts somewhere and if you put in enough work you'll get to where you want to be. Physicians don't make a ton of money compared to a lot of cushy white collar jobs, but it's stable and once you get into med school you are basically set on a path to at least a modest level of success. To me that's well worth the 7+ years of school and bad pay.

 

[IslandStyle808]

So, I went to a state school (7K tuition, 15K other costs/year) and graduated debt free. But I'm really worried about gigantic medical school costs, especially in light of declining reimbursements. What I fear most is the possibility of being 400K or 500K in debt with a low-paying (<200K or so) job as an attending. Oh, and being forced to work crazy hours (as an attending) just to get out from the debt pile.

Is this enough to dissuade people from medicine? I've been thinking more and more about the future of medicine, and I'm getting really scared for my life.

Well it could be worse. You could graduate from a law school, stuck with 100k in debt, and not find a job. Medicine is still one of the most stable occupations out there. Your chances of finding a job are far better than other degrees. You are only looking at medicine. Compare this field with other occupations and then reconsider what you are saying.

 

[chrismenz4]

So, I went to a state school (7K tuition, 15K other costs/year) and graduated debt free. But I'm really worried about gigantic medical school costs, especially in light of declining reimbursements. What I fear most is the possibility of being 400K or 500K in debt with a low-paying (<200K or so) job as an attending. Oh, and being forced to work crazy hours (as an attending) just to get out from the debt pile.

Is this enough to dissuade people from medicine? I've been thinking more and more about the future of medicine, and I'm getting really scared for my life.

meow

 

[FSU2013]

There's no excuse for spending 400k on med school. I'm lucky and have had some help from my folks, but even still, I lived like a pauper. Find cheaper places to apply.

 

[circulus vitios]

There's no excuse for spending 400k on med school. I'm lucky and have had some help from my folks, but even still, I lived like a pauper. Find cheaper places to apply.

That's kind of hard when the majority of medical schools have a $50-60k/year COA and most of us don't have a choice -- we go to the school we're accepted to, or we choose between two or three expensive schools.

 

[FSU2013]

That's kind of hard when the majority of medical schools have a $50-60k/year COA and most of us don't have a choice -- we go to the school we're accepted to, or we choose between two or three expensive schools.

That's fine and well, but I don't see how 50k a year gets to 500k in debt even with high interest rates and compounding interest.

 

[MedPR]

That's fine and well, but I don't see how 50k a year gets to 500k in debt even with high interest rates and compounding interest.

Yea 50k COA really isn't that bad.

If I got accepted to BU and chose to attend it would probably be closer to $80k COA.

 

[annonymous819]

**all numbers are estimates, bad ones most likely***

Even a school with a much lower coa will translate into a substantial, but manageable, monthly payment once you are done at 6.8%. If you only took out loans for tuition at a typical school that costs 40k a yr you will graduate with 160k in debt. You may have undergrad debt, some dont. But in the rosy scenario where you dont then that 160k will be around 200k by the end of residency, depending on length of residency. Average physician salary is about 200k and i would be surprised if it ever dropped below 150k so the doom and gloom is probably over done, but the days of making 400-750 may be nearing an end. Anyways, if you make 200k a yr, you will probably pay uncle sam about 60ish and bring home about 140. So monthy take home of 12k. A quick trip over to the fin aid calculator reveales that you will pay about 3k/mth in student loans on a 10yr pay off. So 9k/mth take home.

Even debt levels in the 300s are manageable, if not ideal. Payments in the 5k/mth range (dont quote me). That is far from ideal, but manageable if youre in a dual income family...

So the doom and gloom isnt needed, be smart and control your debt, go to the cheapest school you can, and you will manage a very upper middle class lifestyle. You can easily afford to replace your civic and live in a modest home on the safe side of town, take ski trips, etc. Just dont plan on a mansion and rimz just cause you got the MD...

 

[FSU2013]

**all numbers are estimates, bad ones most likely***

Even a school with a much lower coa will translate into a substantial, but manageable, monthly payment once you are done at 6.8%. If you only took out loans for tuition at a typical school that costs 40k a yr you will graduate with 160k in debt. You may have undergrad debt, some dont. But in the rosy scenario where you dont then that 160k will be around 200k by the end of residency, depending on length of residency. Average physician salary is about 200k and i would be surprised if it ever dropped below 150k so the doom and gloom is probably over done, but the days of making 400-750 may be nearing an end. Anyways, if you make 200k a yr, you will probably pay uncle sam about 60ish and bring home about 140. So monthy take home of 12k. A quick trip over to the fin aid calculator reveales that you will pay about 3k/mth in student loans on a 10yr pay off. So 9k/mth take home.

Even debt levels in the 300s are manageable, if not ideal. Payments in the 5k/mth range (dont quote me). That is far from ideal, but manageable if youre in a dual income family...

So the doom and gloom isnt needed, be smart and control your debt, go to the cheapest school you can, and you will manage a very upper middle class lifestyle. You can easily afford to replace your civic and live in a modest home on the safe side of town, take ski trips, etc. Just dont plan on a mansion and rimz just cause you got the MD...

There's a reason I go to a state school with tuition of 23k/yr (I think it was about 18 when I started)

 

[bollywoodlover]

Not another one of these threads haha. Guess I can't complain though with tx tuition.

 

[Spinach Dip]

I am a little bit worried also, as I am going to have ~60K in debt once I finish the MS program I'm in right now. And that's AFTER living with my parents for several extra years, eating cheap (I mean one meal a day--and something cheap like subway--sort of cheap) and taking public transit rather than having my own car.

So I'm already 60K in the hole.

Worse than some people out there, but better than some others also.

But I'm not losing sleep over this, and here's why: after I get my MD, I'll actually be able to pay off my debts and have a decent amount to take home afterwards. It could be worse. I could be going to law school. Or sociology school. Or art history school.... and so on. If I was in any of those programs, I would be very scared of my future prospects.

 

[Frazier]

Playing around in excel, this thread inspired me to compare the total 4-year COA of my perceived "most expensive option" and my perceived "cheapest option" among the schools that I've gained an acceptance.

Assuming not a cent of grants/scholarships and taking into account the fact that interest will begin accruing on day #1, the difference between those two schools will be slightly over 100k.

Say what? 😱

 

[MiracleforMD]

There's no excuse for spending 400k on med school. I'm lucky and have had some help from my folks, but even still, I lived like a pauper. Find cheaper places to apply.

It is not unrealistic at all for people to plan for paying up to 500-600K in all (principal and interest) from the day they start medical school, through residency and about 8-10 years of being an attending. And that is on a relatively aggressive payback scheme.

Edit: Definitely still a manageable financial situation. Just commenting on the actual numbers.

 

[FSU2013]

It is not unrealistic at all for people to plan for paying up to 500-600K in all (principal and interest) from the day they start medical school, through residency and about 8-10 years of being an attending. And that is on a relatively aggressive payback scheme.

Paying back that much and being that far in debt are two different things. Even still, that amount is crazy. Living somewhat frugally, attending the cheapest school you can find and hopefully getting some help from parents goes a long way. Everyone's situation is different, but there's a reason doctors have the reputation of being horrible investors. We need to become more financially educated and fiscally responsible. Unless you have a rediculously rich family or amazing scholarship offers, $50k/yr tuition....nope.

 

[FSU2013]

Playing around in excel, this thread inspired me to compare the total 4-year COA of my perceived "most expensive option" and my perceived "cheapest option" among the schools that I've gained an acceptance.

Assuming not a cent of grants/scholarships and taking into account the fact that interest will begin accruing on day #1, the difference between those two schools will be slightly over 100k.

Say what? 😱

Plus interest makes 40-110K difference depending on payment plans.

Either way, congrats on multiple acceptances, and good luck.

 

[annonymous819]

Plus interest makes 40-110K difference depending on payment plans.

Either way, congrats on multiple acceptances, and good luck.

+you paid back with post tax dollars.

Go cheap if you arent interested in academics.

 

[FSU2013]

+you paid back with post tax dollars.

Go cheap if you arent interested in academics.

As far as post-tax dollars, yes, but that's not a huge deal. You can deduct a certain amount of interest (unless Washington changes their mind) and you have to consider inflation. One dollar today is worth far more than one dollar in thirty years (which may actually count for nothing if our country keeps printing money...anywho).

I am interested in academics - that's part of the reason I went to state school. I didnt have the mcat to get a crazy merit scholarship anywhere and I didn't want to be burdened with massive debt. I think the likelihood of going the academic route with 100k from undergrad and 200-250 from med school is significantly less than someone like me who did undergrad debt free and has kept med school loans to a minimum. I can afford to take a position that pays signifiacntly less than private practice because I don't have that several thousand a month student loan bill.

Read whitecoatinvestor and listen to Clark Howard and Dave Ramsey. Definitely worth your time.

 

[Gauss44]

So, I went to a state school (7K tuition, 15K other costs/year) and graduated debt free. But I'm really worried about gigantic medical school costs, especially in light of declining reimbursements. What I fear most is the possibility of being 400K or 500K in debt with a low-paying (<200K or so) job as an attending. Oh, and being forced to work crazy hours (as an attending) just to get out from the debt pile.

Is this enough to dissuade people from medicine? I've been thinking more and more about the future of medicine, and I'm getting really scared for my life.

Definitely.

They need to change student loan laws: If you have a cosigner on private student loans, that person will have to pay your debt if you die. Enough said.

 

[annonymous819]

As far as post-tax dollars, yes, but that's not a huge deal. You can deduct a certain amount of interest (unless Washington changes their mind) and you have to consider inflation. One dollar today is worth far more than one dollar in thirty years (which may actually count for nothing if our country keeps printing money...anywho).

Read whitecoatinvestor and listen to Clark Howard and Dave Ramsey. Definitely worth your time.

Post tax is not a huge deal, but something to keep in mind. I think deducting interest is capped well below physician level income so dont bank on that though.

Youre right about inflation, Im not sure what inflation is at these days but real interest rates are probably around 3-5% on student loans. However, if reimbursement doesnt keep pace with inflation it isnt much help.

 

[HughMyron]

That's fine and well, but I don't see how 50k a year gets to 500k in debt even with high interest rates and compounding interest.

Well, I would love going to a 50K/year tuition school. What I fear is that they won 't work out, and ill have to go to a place like Colorado where the total COA is 100K+/year.

 

[ChartaBona]

I'm seriously considering Army HPSP instead of paying the $75k/yr COA to my dream school. I know you don't go into HPSP specifically for the money, so I've spoken with people that have been in the service. They loved being able to see the world and do things you'll never get a chance to do outside the military. It would also give me the chance to serve my country.

As far as the math goes, 300k for 4 years is actually 380k after compounding interest and already owing 20k for undergrad. This becomes >450k by the time I'm an attending. This principal + the interest paid over the next 10-25 years could mean I'm spending 600-800k of my NET pay over the life of the loan.

The alternative is getting a 20k signing bonus to eliminate my undergrad debt, then getting free tuition, fees, books etc. and 25k/yr for living expenses. As a resident with no debt, making 70k/yr would mean I could start saving for retirement or a down payment on a house much sooner. Granted, I'll be making "only" ~100-150k/yr max as an attending in the Army, but that would be more money than I would know what to do with.

I'd basically be making the decision, do I want to be owned by the military or the banks, and at least the military would let me do some cool things and let me go while I'm still in my 30's. I've spent enough time on the military med forum to know there are many cons to .mil, but it still seems like a great opportunity. As for the loss of freedom, I feel like having to work intense hours for many years to pay off massive student loan debt is not true freedom.

Anyway, I'm still tossing this idea around in my head. I'm 5'11" 195 lbs, so I need to lose like 10 lbs to be eligible anyway.

 

[FSU2013]

I'm seriously considering Army HPSP instead of paying the $75k/yr COA to my dream school. I know you don't go into HPSP specifically for the money, so I've spoken with people that have been in the service. They loved being able to see the world and do things you'll never get a chance to do outside the military. It would also give me the chance to serve my country.

As far as the math goes, 300k for 4 years is actually 380k after compounding interest and already owing 20k for undergrad. This becomes >450k by the time I'm an attending. This principal + the interest paid over the next 10-25 years could mean I'm spending 600-800k of my NET pay over the life of the loan.

The alternative is getting a 20k signing bonus to eliminate my undergrad debt, then getting free tuition, fees, books etc. and 25k/yr for living expenses. As a resident with no debt, making 70k/yr would mean I could start saving for retirement or a down payment on a house much sooner. Granted, I'll be making "only" ~100-150k/yr max as an attending in the Army, but that would be more money than I would know what to do with.

I'd basically be making the decision, do I want to be owned by the military or the banks, and at least the military would let me do some cool things and let me go while I'm still in my 30's. I've spent enough time on the military med forum to know there are many cons to .mil, but it still seems like a great opportunity. As for the loss of freedom, I feel like having to work intense hours for many years to pay off massive student loan debt is not true freedom.

Anyway, I'm still tossing this idea around in my head. I'm 5'11" 195 lbs, so I need to lose like 10 lbs to be eligible anyway.

Read whitecoatinvestor. He's a financially savy writer. He went the military route and has some interesting thoughts.

 

[ChartaBona]

Read whitecoatinvestor. He's a financially savy writer. He went the military route and has some interesting thoughts.

Thanks. Just read http://whitecoatinvestor.com/personal-finance/should-i-join-the-military-to-pay-for-medical-school/

Here are the inputs I used:

1) HPSP signing bonus $20,000, monthly stipend $1992

2) Student attends an out of state school or a private school with a cost of tuition, fees, books, and health insurance of $48,000 per year. Loans are taken out at 6.8%.

3) The time value of money is 6% per year. This means that increased pay in medical school and residency is worth more than increased pay later.

4) The HPSP student completes a military residency. Pay rates taken directly from 2011 military pay tables. BAH values from 2011 BAH calculator for a large military medical center. The non-HPSP student attends the actual civilian residency I attended and is paid according to 2010-2011 rates paid by the hospital.

5) The military physician makes approximately $130,000 per year while in the service. This is an approximate figure of what a military emergency physician in his first few years out of residency makes.

6) The civilian physician makes the average employee total compensation per the Daniel Sterns 2010 survey of emergency physicians, $263,000.

After 4 years of medical school, 3 years of residency, and 4 years of post-residency practice, the military physician has received benefits of $1.125 Million and the civilian physician has received benefits of $1.083 Million, essentially a draw. The balance is tilted in favor of the civilian route for a cheaper medical school, cheaper loans, a higher-paying specialty, or a more lucrative private partnership type position. Conversely, the balance is tilted in favor of the military route for a more expensive medical school, a lower paying specialty, or prior military service.

I feel it was a fair article on the matter. Under the circumstances I described in my previous post (COA = 75k/yr instead of 48k/yr in his example), I still believe I would benefit more financially from HPSP. Especially since the lifetime limit for Stafford loans is $224,000. If I receive significant scholarships, I'd have to reweigh my options, obviously, but you're not committed to HPSP til they offer it to you and you sign the dotted line.

I've sporadically thought about joining the military since the middle of undergrad, but it always seemed out of reach to me. I was obese my entire adult life, and was 280 lbs not even 18 months ago.

 

[annonymous819]

I'm seriously considering Army HPSP instead of paying the $75k/yr COA to my dream school. I know you don't go into HPSP specifically for the money, so I've spoken with people that have been in the service. They loved being able to see the world and do things you'll never get a chance to do outside the military. It would also give me the chance to serve my country.

As far as the math goes, 300k for 4 years is actually 380k after compounding interest and already owing 20k for undergrad. This becomes >450k by the time I'm an attending. This principal + the interest paid over the next 10-25 years could mean I'm spending 600-800k of my NET pay over the life of the loan.

The alternative is getting a 20k signing bonus to eliminate my undergrad debt, then getting free tuition, fees, books etc. and 25k/yr for living expenses. As a resident with no debt, making 70k/yr would mean I could start saving for retirement or a down payment on a house much sooner. Granted, I'll be making "only" ~100-150k/yr max as an attending in the Army, but that would be more money than I would know what to do with.

I'd basically be making the decision, do I want to be owned by the military or the banks, and at least the military would let me do some cool things and let me go while I'm still in my 30's. I've spent enough time on the military med forum to know there are many cons to .mil, but it still seems like a great opportunity. As for the loss of freedom, I feel like having to work intense hours for many years to pay off massive student loan debt is not true freedom.

Anyway, I'm still tossing this idea around in my head. I'm 5'11" 195 lbs, so I need to lose like 10 lbs to be eligible anyway.

I seriously considered the idea as well, it may not be a financial gain, but the peace of mind of having no debt may be worth it. Right now national guard is more appealing to me.

The big hang ups for me are the likelihood of doing a military residency (i think taking FAP mitigates this) and most importantly the high likelihood of deploying and being away from my family for 12+ mths. You may not have a family yet, but i can assure you no amount of money or sight seeing is worth that to me.

 

[pre med 2014]

Get the us news guide to medical schools. You be surprised at how many schools tuition is in the 30K range. That's 120K just for tuition.

People with 30K salaries drive 30K cars so it's not that crazy to pay 200K debt on 200k salary

 

[FSU2013]

Thanks. Just read http://whitecoatinvestor.com/personal-finance/should-i-join-the-military-to-pay-for-medical-school/



I feel it was a fair article on the matter. Under the circumstances I described in my previous post (COA = 75k/yr instead of 48k/yr in his example), I still believe I would benefit more financially from HPSP. Especially since the lifetime limit for Stafford loans is $224,000. If I receive significant scholarships, I'd have to reweigh my options, obviously, but you're not committed to HPSP til they offer it to you and you sign the dotted line.

I've sporadically thought about joining the military since the middle of undergrad, but it always seemed out of reach to me. I was obese my entire adult life, and was 280 lbs not even 18 months ago.

I considered it. My father, brother and uncle are/were military. The reason I didn't go that route was because 1) I was able to attend a public, in-state school with some money saved from undergrad and some help from my folks and 2) the possibility of being a GMO. I couldn't see myself going back to residency after practicing for several years.

 

[ChartaBona]

I considered it. My father, brother and uncle are/were military. The reason I didn't go that route was because 1) I was able to attend a public, in-state school with some money saved from undergrad and some help from my folks and 2) the possibility of being a GMO. I couldn't see myself going back to residency after practicing for several years.

1) I haven't heard back from my state school yet
2) I got a 37 on the MCAT and am going to aim for a very high Step 1 score, which should keep me from becoming a GMO/ FS. If I had to serve as one, oh well. At least I won't be close to half a million in debt.

There's a thread floating around here where someone asked if it was worth it to go 300k in debt for medical school, and none of the attendings thought it was worth it. I come from a family that makes too much money but never SAVES any, so I won't be getting any need-based aid.

 

[Law2Doc]

**all numbers are estimates, bad ones most likely***

Even a school with a much lower coa will translate into a substantial, but manageable, monthly payment once you are done at 6.8%. If you only took out loans for tuition at a typical school that costs 40k a yr you will graduate with 160k in debt. You may have undergrad debt, some dont. But in the rosy scenario where you dont then that 160k will be around 200k by the end of residency, depending on length of residency. Average physician salary is about 200k and i would be surprised if it ever dropped below 150k so the doom and gloom is probably over done, but the days of making 400-750 may be nearing an end. Anyways, if you make 200k a yr, you will probably pay uncle sam about 60ish and bring home about 140. So monthy take home of 12k. A quick trip over to the fin aid calculator reveales that you will pay about 3k/mth in student loans on a 10yr pay off. So 9k/mth take home.

Even debt levels in the 300s are manageable, if not ideal. Payments in the 5k/mth range (dont quote me). That is far from ideal, but manageable if youre in a dual income family...

So the doom and gloom isnt needed, be smart and control your debt, go to the cheapest school you can, and you will manage a very upper middle class lifestyle. You can easily afford to replace your civic and live in a modest home on the safe side of town, take ski trips, etc. Just dont plan on a mansion and rimz just cause you got the MD...

While the " average physician" may make 200k, that averages all the specialties together. There are a Lot of physicians who are below that average. Eg the average for pediatrics in the recent Medscape survey was below $150k. Since you don't really know what field you are going to like going in, and since you don't know if you will be paid the average (half of you won't) your blanket statement is faulty. You need to take a more conservative approach and assume a salary below average for a below average specialty. So assume $130k and you will be safer. You may end up average, or even above average in a lucrative field, and all this will be moot, but that's not the assumption you want to bank on.

 

[Frazier]

I briefly considered the HPSP. Would have thought about it more seriously if the Coast Guard was in the program.

 

[HughMyron]

Instead of the military route, can't you make quite a bit of money working in an underserved rural area for some years rather than rushing off to LA or NYC? I know a few people IRL who did this, and they seem to be doing pretty well now.

 

[CsHead]

i briefly considered the hpsp. Would have thought about it more seriously if the coast guard was in the program.

phs

 

[MedPR]

Instead of the military route, can't you make quite a bit of money working in an underserved rural area for some years rather than rushing off to LA or NYC? I know a few people IRL who did this, and they seem to be doing pretty well now.

There are programs that will forgive your debt. Many (all?) require you practice in a specific setting, most commonly rural. So while you might not be earning as much as someone in another place, you aren't paying loans so you're coming out even more in the black.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[HughMyron]

There are programs that will forgive your debt. Many (all?) require you practice in a specific setting, most commonly rural. So while you might not be earning as much as someone in another place, you aren't paying loans so you're coming out even more in the black.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

Yeah, I mean, I have some reservations about working in rural places because I'm not white and I would rather not have to deal with intolerant rednecks for part of my life, but it's option I would prefer to the military.

 

[mzarrowsmith]

So, I went to a state school (7K tuition, 15K other costs/year) and graduated debt free. But I'm really worried about gigantic medical school costs, especially in light of declining reimbursements. What I fear most is the possibility of being 400K or 500K in debt with a low-paying (<200K or so) job as an attending. Oh, and being forced to work crazy hours (as an attending) just to get out from the debt pile.

Is this enough to dissuade people from medicine? I've been thinking more and more about the future of medicine, and I'm getting really scared for my life.

Assuming you're a pauperish attending raking in a mere <$200k per year in any non-profit institution, here's your answer:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Public+Service+Loan+Forgiveness+Program

 

[annonymous819]

While the " average physician" may make 200k, that averages all the specialties together. There are a Lot of physicians who are below that average. Eg the average for pediatrics in the recent Medscape survey was below $150k. Since you don't really know what field you are going to like going in, and since you don't know if you will be paid the average (half of you won't) your blanket statement is faulty. You need to take a more conservative approach and assume a salary below average for a below average specialty. So assume $130k and you will be safer. You may end up average, or even above average in a lucrative field, and all this will be moot, but that's not the assumption you want to bank on.

Yes, but the specialties that are on the low end of the average are usually PCPs and have far more opportunities for loan forgiveness programs.

Also, those averages include academic physicians which are paid less and bring down the average.

Not saying you are wrong for being conservative and planning for the worst, but there are a lot of factors that influence earning potential that are well within a persons control. Expecting to be within a SD of the average is perfectly reasonable so long as you dont choose a specialty known to pay less. If you are interested in peds, you should be going to a cheap school to begin with and taking advantage of loan forgiveness programs.

 

[FSU2013]

Yeah, I mean, I have some reservations about working in rural places because I'm not white and I would rather not have to deal with intolerant rednecks for part of my life, but it's option I would prefer to the military.

So you're intolerant of intolerant people?

 

[NickNaylor]

Yeah, I mean, I have some reservations about working in rural places because I'm not white and I would rather not have to deal with intolerant rednecks for part of my life, but it's option I would prefer to the military.

Lol, that's hilarious for a variety of reasons (e.g., not just white people live in rural areas).

 

[Stumpyman]

Yeah, I mean, I have some reservations about working in rural places because I'm not white and I would rather not have to deal with intolerant rednecks for part of my life, but it's option I would prefer to the military.

Hah. You'll be fine. As a non-white person who grew up in rural TX, southern Alabama, and South Carolina, I'll tell you that the natives of rural areas are pretty nice and surprisingly open-minded. Probably encountered more racism in DC, but that's subjective.