Is applying to MSTP worth it?

[NeurosciTMS]

Hey everyone,

I have been going back and forth on the kind of career that I want to have in the future. I want to be a physician scientist, but I am not sure if applying to MSTP programs will suit me best for the kind of career that I have envisioned. I graduated from a top 5 public institution and I have taken the MCAT.

During my senior year of college, I developed an interest in public health and I decided to pursue a masters degree. Before then, I spent two years as a research assistant in a cancer lab, one year conducting epidemiological research (3 months of the research was done abroad) and one year participating in behavioral neuroscience research, which focused on post traumatic stress disorder. I have shadowed physicians and surgeons, volunteered (medically and non-medically), been in leadership positions in various organizations and I have been a mentor and tutor for economically and educationally disadvantaged youth. Currently I am an AmeriCorps - VISTA volunteer for an organization involved in improving access to higher education among low income groups.

Although I will be pursuing a masters in epidemiology (one year of coursework + one year of research and additional relevant coursework to complete a masters thesis) at Johns Hopkins this fall, I am strongly interested in conducting epidemiological research while practicing medicine. I do not have any publications and I have found that biomedical research is not something that I am interested in although I don't hate it. I will be applying to medical school after my first year in the masters program and I wanted some advice about whether applying to MSTP programs is necessary for me to fulfill my career goals. I want to continue shadowing and possibly volunteering as a mentor during my time in Baltimore.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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[gbwillner]

Sounds like it is pretty clear what you want to do, and no, a PhD will not be useful for you.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

Although I will be pursuing a masters in epidemiology (one year of coursework + one year of research and additional relevant coursework to complete a masters thesis) at Johns Hopkins this fall, I am strongly interested in conducting epidemiological research while practicing medicine. I do not have any publications and I have found that biomedical research is not something that I am interested in although I don't hate it. I will be applying to medical school after my first year in the masters program and I wanted some advice about whether applying to MSTP programs is necessary for me to fulfill my career goals. I want to continue shadowing and possibly volunteering as a mentor during my time in Baltimore.

Do not apply MD/PhD.

 

[NeurosciTMS]

Some medical schools are flexible with their MSTP programs and allow applicants to apply for PhD's in other fields like epidemiology. I forgot to add that I would be applying to these medical schools that allow this.

 

[radiology2014]

Some medical schools are flexible with their MSTP programs and allow applicants to apply for PhD's in other fields like epidemiology. I forgot to add that I would be applying to these medical schools that allow this.

The PhD would still not be worth it in my opinion, especially since you're already on the right (or at least most popular) track for someone with your interests. You will use your MD skills to identify some risk/disease/cohort that interests you, possibly evaluate/diagnose/treat/follow these folks clinically, acquire some data (demographics, risk factors, clinical scores, outcomes, etc.), and then most likely apply straightforward "cookbook" biostatistics to analyze them. A master's in public health, epidemiology, biostatistics, or similar is plenty to learn how to structure these studies, what types of questions you can ask, and even how to analyze the data - although in many cases the analysis step can be offloaded to your department's biostats core anyway. Good luck!

 

[NeurosciTMS]

The PhD would still not be worth it in my opinion, especially since you're already on the right (or at least most popular) track for someone with your interests. You will use your MD skills to identify some risk/disease/cohort that interests you, possibly evaluate/diagnose/treat/follow these folks clinically, acquire some data (demographics, risk factors, clinical scores, outcomes, etc.), and then most likely apply straightforward "cookbook" biostatistics to analyze them. A master's in public health, epidemiology, biostatistics, or similar is plenty to learn how to structure these studies, what types of questions you can ask, and even how to analyze the data - although in many cases the analysis step can be offloaded to your department's biostats core anyway. Good luck!

Thanks for the advice! This was really helpful. I think I will just end up applying to MD programs. I was thinking the PhD would be more useful, but it doesn't seem like it for the kind of research that I want to do.

 

[_drinkcoffee_]

Thanks for the advice! This was really helpful. I think I will just end up applying to MD programs. I was thinking the PhD would be more useful, but it doesn't seem like it for the kind of research that I want to do.

I am not sure if I agree with the other responders. I think a PhD in epidemiology provides more depth than an MS/MPH in epidemology, which is why the degree exists in the first place. People also do PhDs in clinical research at certain schools.

 

[NeurosciTMS]

I am not sure if I agree with the other responders. I think a PhD in epidemiology provides more depth than an MS/MPH in epidemology, which is why the degree exists in the first place. People also do PhDs in clinical research at certain schools.

What would the benefits of obtaining a PhD in epidemiology be? In the graduate program that I will start in the fall at Hopkins, masters and doctoral students take all of the same coursework the first year except there are other doctoral requirements, such as seminars and a few extra classes. I have seen some physicians do similar levels of research with just an MPH/MS, but others also have PhD's in epidemiology. I think the PhD would probably provide students with more epidemiological methods knowledge and some added skill set, but would it be necessary? What sort of depth would a MD/PhD have over an MD/MPH? I definitely want to practice medicine and do research, but from what I have seen, individuals with MD/PhD's usually end up doing 80/20 research/practice of they scrap the research part altogether and practice medicine (I could be wrong. This is what I have heard). Although I think I would be committed, MD/PhD programs are also highly competitive and I am not sure if having a masters in epidemiology l would strengthen my case for pursuing both degrees. I have started reading articles and epidemiology studies and I really like the research that is going on, particularly in the area of cardiovascular disease. I guess I am all over the place and keep going back and forth. The competitiveness of the process sort of scares me as well.

 

[_drinkcoffee_]

What would the benefits of obtaining a PhD in epidemiology be? In the graduate program that I will start in the fall at Hopkins, masters and doctoral students take all of the same coursework the first year except there are other doctoral requirements, such as seminars and a few extra classes. I have seen some physicians do similar levels of research with just an MPH/MS, but others also have PhD's in epidemiology. I think the PhD would probably provide students with more epidemiological methods knowledge and some added skill set, but would it be necessary? What sort of depth would a MD/PhD have over an MD/MPH? I definitely want to practice medicine and do research, but from what I have seen, individuals with MD/PhD's usually end up doing 80/20 research/practice of they scrap the research part altogether and practice medicine (I could be wrong. This is what I have heard). Although I think I would be committed, MD/PhD programs are also highly competitive and I am not sure if having a masters in epidemiology l would strengthen my case for pursuing both degrees. I have started reading articles and epidemiology studies and I really like the research that is going on, particularly in the area of cardiovascular disease. I guess I am all over the place and keep going back and forth. The competitiveness of the process sort of scares me as well.

It seems to me like you should do the MPH and not apply to MD/PhD programs.

A masters in epidemiology or biostatistics essentially gives you a toolbox of statistical skills, with perhaps a minor thesis if you are doing epidemiology.

For a PhD in epidemiology, you are expected to acquire the same skills and also conduct a more substantial research project for your PhD thesis. For a PhD in biostatistics, at (most) top programs I believe you will be expected to invent or apply new mathematical/statistical methodology.

 

[Neuronix]

I have seen some physicians do similar levels of research with just an MPH/MS, but others also have PhD's in epidemiology.

The vast majority of MD/PhDs out there are trained for basic biomedical research. That's what we know around here. For your interests, I suggest you find one of these physicians with PhDs in epidemiology, work with them, and have them mentor you towards this pathway. Some MD/PhD programs may support you to do this kind of research during the program, but you need several years of experience within this research and a clear future goal if you want to be successful in admissions.

individuals with MD/PhD's usually end up doing 80/20 research/practice of they scrap the research part altogether and practice medicine (I could be wrong. This is what I have heard).

80% research is the goal of MD/PhD programs, but most graduates are not achieving this goal due to a multitude of issues we constantly discuss on this forum. The stereotype will be that you also will not be able to achieve this goal without a basic science PhD. Thus again you need to have a mentor and several years of research in that area coming in the door to convince adcoms that you can be exceptional.

Although I think I would be committed, MD/PhD programs are also highly competitive and I am not sure if having a masters in epidemiology l would strengthen my case for pursuing both degrees.

You need several years of research experience, preferably within the social science area you wish to pursue. How you get that experience is up to you. I just always advise that if you are going to get a degree like a master's, you should not be paying for it due to the extreme length of our training pathway and reduced earning potential within research in academic medicine. I recommend finding a paid position like a research assistant and working in research that way. The master's/MPH will not help you in this process.