Is being a billionaire immoral? Should they exist?

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A corporation is an entity, not a person.
Corporations get charged taxes, then the taxes are paid by whom? The consumer of said corporations.
People who take money home who work for said corporations pay taxes, just like everyone else (assuming they are in the 52% of Americans that pay federal taxes other than payroll taxes). You give Walmart extra taxes, who pays it? Largely poor people.

The whole thing about corporations not paying "their fair share" is illogical hogwash that drives a populist and socialist agenda.

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Laws that allow corporations to not pay taxes.

Currently, from my understanding, they pay taxes on profit and not revenue (which would be like us paying taxes only on the $ left over after we’ve paid our mortgages, food, cars etc). - Movie companies create separate mini-companies and then charge the parent company a buttload of $ for their needs in order to show a “loss” and hence pay less to none taxes.

There are tax havens that allow them to house a company in that city/country where it is nothing more than a storefront while all the actual business is still done in USA, but this allows further avoidance of taxes.

The laws that allow corporations to donate unlimited $ to candidates who then help make laws that further increase the profits of these corporations, sometimes to the detriment of the workers.

The law that allows someone to deduct the cost of a yacht for tax purposes but only allows a maximum of $250 for our underpaid teachers in education expenses when they buy classroom supplies due to poorly funded schools.

I wasn’t saying that for someone to be rich someone else HAS to be poor, but there is definitely a “keep them miserable and needy and they won’t have time to bitch about anything” mentality that corporations have.
You are less likely to protest or stand up against an injustice at work if you are so reliant on that job and its meager benefits (GM cancelled the medical insurance on all of its workers who were striking recently).

As someone who moved here and initially worked for 5.15 an hour, I don’t begrudge someone having it “easier” than me.... that should be the goal of each generation to make it easier for the next.
I got the Pell grant for college and then in b/w medical school and residency, due to a family medical situation, was on food stamps for a year before applying again the next year.
People all over paid taxes for me to be able to eat for a year, and while I have paid that back many many times over in taxes, I would much rather have paid more and have it be used for social and education programs than giving yet another tax break to millionaires.
You are still conflating taxes on the wealthy and taxes on corporations. Which one are you wanting to discuss?
 
Laws that allow corporations to not pay taxes.

Currently, from my understanding, they pay taxes on profit and not revenue (which would be like us paying taxes only on the $ left over after we’ve paid our mortgages, food, cars etc). -

Seriously. if you are able to make this statement, then you lose all validity. I don't even know where to start but your ignorance is astounding.

NO company pay taxes on revenue. If they did, then there would be zero companies, restaurants, small businesses EVER. Most companies/small businesses fail within 5 yrs. Imagine if you had a wildly successful company and grossed 1 mil the 1st month with a 200K profit. That profit would go straight to taxes and not back into the business. All companies would be bankrupt on day one. Each dinner your restaurant sells makes a small margin, much smaller than the 20% tax you would pay on the revenue.

Comparing a company revenue to a worker's wages has no logic to it.
 
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The biggest issue I have with formal education is that it pushes you to do things at a fast pace. Most people could get straight As if they did things at a slower pace. Instead of completing an easy degree in 4 years I would push someone to complete a hard and rewarding degree in 6 years.

It may be hard for people to understand but in life there are Winners and Losers. In every part of life, we reward winners. That is why we have grade, tests scores. By your theory, we should just let everyone take the MCAT over 7 dys. I am sure you would score much better having 7 dys to figure every question out.

But we have standardize processes to see who the winner is.
 
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Anyone who thinks someone is immoral b/c they are successful while playing within the rules pander to the "poor me" narrative.
There are probably no more than 10 Lebron James born a year with his genetic makeup. Why should I think he is immoral for making 30M+ a year? If someone is willing to pay someone alot of money makes them successful, a unicorn, and well deserved.

I find the Liberal narrative from Bernie, AOC and Warren hyper hypocritical. They whine about millionaires not paying their share. But They are all millionaires and AOC soon to be, and none of them pays the rate they want. They use the same tax advantages every millionaire uses.

Buffet complaining he doesn't pay enough taxes and less than his secretary. A great soundbite but he uses the same tax breaks as everyone else. If he is so moral, then just file your taxes without the tax breaks and deductions.

I can care less what people do but don't say one thing and do another.
 
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When the wealthy use the political system to create a bureaucratic infrastructure that entrenches their wealth at the expense of the opportunity for others to succeed, their wealth becomes immoral because it was created by a system designed to benefit them at the expense of others. The playing field should be level, and most billionaires use exploitation of the political system to cultivate advantageous laws and create disadvantages for competitors, so their wealth is often immoral. Otherwise it's fine. People who use the political system to their advantage at the cost of America's long-term interests and security are treasonous and should get the guillotine though
 
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Anyone who thinks someone is immoral b/c they are successful while playing within the rules pander to the "poor me" narrative.
There are probably no more than 10 Lebron James born a year with his genetic makeup. Why should I think he is immoral for making 30M+ a year? If someone is willing to pay someone alot of money makes them successful, a unicorn, and well deserved.

A major issue is that the rules are tailored towards the wealthy.
I never said they were doing anything illegal, but its partly because they have helped elect folks that then cater to their whims.

If the current docs who makes rules for the MCAT changed it so that new folks had to take it in 3 hours w/o any breaks in order to limit the number of docs and hence command a higher pay for themselves, it would be “legal” but I cannot fathom who would think that that is fair
 
The owners/founders etc of these companies ARE billionaires, are they not?
But do you understand that the tax structure of the company is not the same thing as a personal income tax structure? You seem to not get that
 
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But do you understand that the tax structure of the company is not the same thing as a personal income tax structure? You seem to not get that

I am more than aware of that.
Any thoughts on the actual comments or are we just belittling people here?
 
Not of all the companies. I am a sole proprietor. I only pay taxes on my profits and not my revenue. I am not a billionaire and I am not incorporated.

So NOT all company owners are billionaires!?? Wow, I had no idea.

Seriously guys, if you want to debate then lets do it on what we are writing and not random one-liners.

This is turning into a 3 on 1 so it may take me time to respond to everyone
 
I am more than aware of that.
Any thoughts on the actual comments or are we just belittling people here?
I’m trying to narrow down specifically what we are talking about because you are all over the place. Corporate taxes and billionaire personal taxes are very very different topics and I would like us to focus
 
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I’m trying to narrow down specifically what we are talking about because you are all over the place. Corporate taxes and billionaire personal taxes are very very different topics and I would like us to focus

It’s billionaires my friend.... no one said the problem cannot be addressed on multiple fronts.
 
It’s billionaires my friend.... no one said the problem cannot be addressed on multiple fronts.
Then we’ll talk about billionaires and we’ll start by pointing out corporate taxes are not part of that conversation

How much of a wealthy person’s income do you think you have a right to take per year?
 
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So NOT all company owners are billionaires!?? Wow, I had no idea.

Seriously guys, if you want to debate then lets do it on what we are writing and not random one-liners.

This is turning into a 3 on 1 so it may take me time to respond to everyone
So is it only for corporations founded by billionaires that you want to tax revenue regardless of operating expenses? Does it matter if the founder still has any role in the corporation? How about if they were not billionaires when they started the company?
 
Then we’ll talk about billionaires and we’ll start by pointing out corporate taxes are not part of that conversation

How much of a wealthy person’s income do you think you have a right to take per year?

I have this discussion with you in this thread earlier.
You seem to be against all taxes completely and as before I mentioned roads, police, firefighters, FAA, car safety standards, non discrimination policies etc as reason we need government, and I understood your responses to say that you were against those as well and the market would sort everything out.
If I understood you correctly, then for you zero taxes for everyone is the answer which is not possible in a functioning society.
We are too far apart on this.
 
So is it only for corporations founded by billionaires that you want to tax revenue regardless of operating expenses? Does it matter if the founder still has any role in the corporation? How about if they were not billionaires when they started the company?

Ahh the argument on minutiae while ignoring the main points.

Lets start with whether you agree if its OK to have laws that let billionaires avoid paying so much in taxes?
Whether its OK for them to form shell corporations that then bill the parent company in order to show lower profits and hence lower taxes.
Whether its OK for them to buy politicians that then allow them to make even more laws that benefit them to the detriment of so many.
Once we have addressed whether those laws should be changed, we can then try to discuss who those laws should or should not apply to.
 
I have this discussion with you in this thread earlier.
You seem to be against all taxes completely and as before I mentioned roads, police, firefighters, FAA, car safety standards, non discrimination policies etc as reason we need government, and I understood your responses to say that you were against those as well and the market would sort everything out.
If I understood you correctly, then for you zero taxes for everyone is the answer which is not possible in a functioning society.
We are too far apart on this.
You are building straw men, that’s not what I think.

Again, if someone makes a billion dollars next year....how much do you think they owe you and why?
 
Ahh the argument on minutiae while ignoring the main points.

Lets start with whether you agree if its OK to have laws that let billionaires avoid paying so much in taxes?
Whether its OK for them to form shell corporations that then bill the parent company in order to show lower profits and hence lower taxes.
Whether its OK for them to buy politicians that then allow them to make even more laws that benefit them to the detriment of so many.
Once we have addressed whether those laws should be changed, we can then try to discuss who those laws should or should not apply to.

Why wouldn’t all laws apply to everyone?
 
Ahh the argument on minutiae while ignoring the main points.

Lets start with whether you agree if its OK to have laws that let billionaires avoid paying so much in taxes?
Whether its OK for them to form shell corporations that then bill the parent company in order to show lower profits and hence lower taxes.
Whether its OK for them to buy politicians that then allow them to make even more laws that benefit them to the detriment of so many.
Once we have addressed whether those laws should be changed, we can then try to discuss who those laws should or should not apply to.
I am ok with laws that allow operating expenses to be deducted from revenue before determine taxes. You seem to think that if the company inflates expenses with a shell company that the shell will then not pay any taxes. That isn't true with some exceptions. But regardless it can't be policed without making the burden on small business owners to verify the legitimacy of expenses higher. Having separate companies for separate business activities makes sense so a blanket ban on having one company is another company owned by the same people is too much.

As for the ability to buy politicians, bribery is illegal already. Lobbying is legal and we don't regulate what people or corporations spend their money on. Lobbying expenses are not tax deductible. I would strongly support prosecuting any actions that cross the line into bribery.

Again you seem super focused on billionaires when the reality is that busines owners of all sizes may take advantage of the same rules. So again, do you want to change it for everyone or not. It isn't minutiae. It is called thinking a little bit more than just "billionaires bad".
 
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You are conflating a corporation and people here

You are also using a snuck premise that they don’t pay their “fair share”. How much of a billionaire’s money is “fair” for you to take because you don’t like how much they have?
So $0 federal taxes is fair to you? Why isn't that fair for you and I then? If that happened you and I would go to jail.
 
So $0 federal taxes is fair to you? Why isn't that fair for you and I then? If that happened you and I would go to jail.
I’ve had years where I paid $0 federal tax due to not having any tax liability, and hence did not go to jail. I even had one year with ~Negative 2% tax rate.
 
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I’ve had years where I paid $0 federal tax due to not having any tax liability, and hence did not go to jail. I even had one year with ~Negative 2% tax rate.
I went to the local county jail a while back to get fingerprints done (twice), and the nice deputies just got 'em done then said "have a nice day." They didn't arrest me for my $0 tax liability years. Or the one year I got the EITC. I guess filling out the 1040 honestly and completely isn't a crime after all.
 
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Lobbying is legal and we don't regulate what people or corporations spend their money on. Lobbying expenses are not tax deductible. I would strongly support prosecuting any actions that cross the line into bribery.
I might be OK with passing legislation or an amendment that makes lobbying legislators illegal, but this is probably more of an SPF discussion.
 
Laws that allow corporations to not pay taxes.

Currently, from my understanding, they pay taxes on profit and not revenue (which would be like us paying taxes only on the $ left over after we’ve paid our mortgages, food, cars etc). - Movie companies create separate mini-companies and then charge the parent company a buttload of $ for their needs in order to show a “loss” and hence pay less to none taxes.

Just stop. I am not aware of a single country on the planet that makes corporations pay their taxes based on revenue and not profit. Companies actually lose money sometimes you know, not just one continual stream of profit year after year. Disney, Universal, and Warner Brothers are all paying plenty of taxes on their earnings.

If you want to talk about a corporation's taxes, it's best to list a specific one and talk about it because trying to extrapolate that sort of thing across thousands of publicly traded corporations in the US is pointless.
 
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So $0 federal taxes is fair to you? Why isn't that fair for you and I then? If that happened you and I would go to jail.
I would love us all to have zero in federal income taxes, an appropriately sized govt could get very close with a flat rate income tax if that's the method we chose to fund the minimal required govt.

Are you confusing corporate and personal income taxes? the more famous point often brought up in this discussion is amazon not owing an income tax which is not the same as bezos not owing any
 
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The goal is to get everyone on the same page working together to improve civilization. Look at what Elon musk has done. He has influenced thousands to become engineers and then put them to work.
 
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Ahh the argument on minutiae while ignoring the main points.

Lets start with whether you agree if its OK to have laws that let billionaires avoid paying so much in taxes?
Whether its OK for them to form shell corporations that then bill the parent company in order to show lower profits and hence lower taxes.
Whether its OK for them to buy politicians that then allow them to make even more laws that benefit them to the detriment of so many.
Once we have addressed whether those laws should be changed, we can then try to discuss who those laws should or should not apply to.

For one thing, "billionaire" refers to their net worth, not their income. It's possible to have ownership interests in things that have a total value of $1B and have very relatively little income and hence owe very little income tax.

The thing is, when those billionaire's sell those assets to generate actual money they can use to spend on things that is income and is taxed as income.

Now if you want to argue that things like capital gains should be taxed as ordinary income which would disproportionately impact "billionaires", well that is a different discussion to have than how you are going about it. In the US (and essentially all of the rich world) we tax people based on their income in a year, not their net worth. Places have tried taxing net worth in the past and failed spectacularly.
 
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When the wealthy use the political system to create a bureaucratic infrastructure that entrenches their wealth at the expense of the opportunity for others to succeed, their wealth becomes immoral because it was created by a system designed to benefit them at the expense of others. The playing field should be level, and most billionaires use exploitation of the political system to cultivate advantageous laws and create disadvantages for competitors, so their wealth is often immoral. Otherwise it's fine. People who use the political system to their advantage at the cost of America's long-term interests and security are treasonous and should get the guillotine though

I have no problem with the wealthy using whatever is legal to make a profit. NONE. That is the rules that are set out, and if they play within the rules then that is what they should do. It would be a breach of duty for anyone to not use everything within the law to increase profit for their company and thus themselves.

I am, as many docs, are millionaires. Every year, I use whatever tax deduction the government allows to pay the least amount of taxes possible. It would be fiduciarily irresponsibly to my family to do otherwise.

Companies/billionaires should do the same. If it is putting in complex corporate structures or "shell companies" in other counties to avoid taxes, if it is allowed then they SHOULD use it.

If the IRS allows all millionaires to open a shell company to avoid all of my taxes, you better believe I and every Millionaire would do the same.

The Poor do the same. Many receive food stamps, subsided housing, allowances while working jobs that pays cash so they don't have to lose their benefits.

Everyone has 3 choices with our current perceived inequitable structure
1. Whine about it and do nothing
2. Get a new government - Good luck. Those are the millionaires who will never give up their advantages. Sorry Democrats, your representatives will say one thing and Vote to keep all their benefits. Remember the Obamacare plans? Yes, they carved themselves out so they don't have to keep their old "inequitable" plans
3. Join them, make money, and use the tax advantages to your benefits.

I choose 3 b/c that is the only choice I control. If and when I am financially set, all of my taxes will drop b/c I will not be paying the high personal income tax and start to pay the lowered income taxes from my businesses.


 
Why wouldn’t all laws apply to everyone?

You asked which laws I would like changed and I told you.
You have not said whether you agree of disagree with this.

Lots of responses so this is getting a bit busy for me... but I shall try.

Lobbying is legal bribery. It being legal is a result of rich people buying elections and then instituting laws that help them.
Lots of things that are/were legal are unfair (not that everything has to be 100% fair), and benefit a few to the detriment of many.

I agree with EmergentMD that choice 3 is good... I also use it, but I think one can do both (ie use current laws to help while still striving for better laws).

I don’t begrudge someone paying less ‘cos a product is on sale, but if that sale is only available to certain people, then it does become an issue... same for taxes. (Specially the taxes for income generated by selling assets - capital gains- that are much lower and very very unlikely to be something that a minimum wage employee would ever be able to avail, so Yes I do think it should be taxed as normal income)

I could maybe get behind a flat rate tax with the caveat that it actually gets paid.
The gymnastics that corporations do to not pay taxes flies directly in the face of the mantra “USA has the highest tax rates”, at I think they have a responsibility to pay their share since they do use up resources, cause pollution, cut corners wherever they can, endanger employees in the pursuit of a better bottom line.

Again, for the folks saying that what they do is legal... I am not disputing that.
Again, for the folks saying that what they do is legal... I am not disputing that.
Just saying that the law needs to be changed.

If I get the hang of the multi-quote from my phone then I will do a better job responding individually but for now its all in this post :)
 
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You asked which laws I would like changed and I told you.
You have not said whether you agree of disagree with this
Laws that allow corporations to not pay taxes.

Currently, from my understanding, they pay taxes on profit and not revenue (which would be like us paying taxes only on the $ left over after we’ve paid our mortgages, food, cars etc). - Movie companies create separate mini-companies and then charge the parent company a buttload of $ for their needs in order to show a “loss” and hence pay less to none taxes.

There are tax havens that allow them to house a company in that city/country where it is nothing more than a storefront while all the actual business is still done in USA, but this allows further avoidance of taxes.

The laws that allow corporations to donate unlimited $ to candidates who then help make laws that further increase the profits of these corporations, sometimes to the detriment of the workers.

The law that allows someone to deduct the cost of a yacht for tax purposes but only allows a maximum of $250 for our underpaid teachers in education expenses when they buy classroom supplies due to poorly funded schools.

I wasn’t saying that for someone to be rich someone else HAS to be poor, but there is definitely a “keep them miserable and needy and they won’t have time to bitch about anything” mentality that corporations have.
You are less likely to protest or stand up against an injustice at work if you are so reliant on that job and its meager benefits (GM cancelled the medical insurance on all of its workers who were striking recently).

As someone who moved here and initially worked for 5.15 an hour, I don’t begrudge someone having it “easier” than me.... that should be the goal of each generation to make it easier for the next.
I got the Pell grant for college and then in b/w medical school and residency, due to a family medical situation, was on food stamps for a year before applying again the next year.
People all over paid taxes for me to be able to eat for a year, and while I have paid that back many many times over in taxes, I would much rather have paid more and have it be used for social and education programs than giving yet another tax break to millionaires.
There are so many laws on corporate taxes that your hatred of “laws that don’t make them pay taxes” becomes meaningless because companies operating at a loss shouldn’t be paying income taxes. Your pay on revenue as opposed to profit proposal is so absurd it is really hard to even take seriously

I agree on disliking the tax haven arrangements but the answer isn’t to outlaw them and increase govt to fight it....lower taxes and they will come back

I would be fine with pulling corporations out of political speech, but the problem is then defining what speech counts as political and I don’t want govt controlling speech like that. Again, your approach is wrong. The problem is govt acting in appropriately. Make govt weak enough, taxes low enough and simple enough that there is no profit in buying off govt.

Neither yachts nor teacher supplies should be deductible. The tax rates should be flat and lower.

GM (and no one) should be forced by govt to buy health insurance for employees not working. You walk off, you lose stuff.

In your moment of need you should have turned to voluntary charity instead of govt forcing others to pay for you. The same is true for me.
 
You want to know how we can start to have the government do what is right for the people, decrease the influence of lobbyists, and stop voting on party line?

Make ALL government elected position 1 term. Make it 4-6 years for all including the president. That is your shot to change the world. If reelection is not an issue, most lobbying would go away. If you are such a great elected official, then you can run for a different office or wait until the next election.

But stop with all of the hypocritical politicians on both sides speaking from both sides of their mouth.

If this was Obama being impeached, MSNBC and all democrats would be crying foul and Fox and all republicans would be saying he should be impeached.

We have stopped doing what is right, and all the politicians do is pander to their voters.

Watch, even AOC when she becomes a millionaire will say one thing then take all of the tax deductions/shell companies possible to pay the least amount of taxes. Once out of office, watch her start to do her $100K 30 minute speeches. Watch her buy a $5 mil home. Watch her write a book for millions up front.

Just like the Obamas and Clintons have done.

And I have no ill will against what they are doing and applaud them for making all the money they can. I would do the same.

I have a problem with them touting one thing while in office and then turning around making tens of millions while partaking in all of the rules that benefit the rich. I bet you the Obamas are using ever tax deduction and corporate structures available to them to pay the least amount of taxes. I APPLAUD them for this.
 
I have no problem with the wealthy using whatever is legal to make a profit. NONE. That is the rules that are set out, and if they play within the rules then that is what they should do. It would be a breach of duty for anyone to not use everything within the law to increase profit for their company and thus themselves.

I am, as many docs, are millionaires. Every year, I use whatever tax deduction the government allows to pay the least amount of taxes possible. It would be fiduciarily irresponsibly to my family to do otherwise.

Companies/billionaires should do the same. If it is putting in complex corporate structures or "shell companies" in other counties to avoid taxes, if it is allowed then they SHOULD use it.

If the IRS allows all millionaires to open a shell company to avoid all of my taxes, you better believe I and every Millionaire would do the same.

The Poor do the same. Many receive food stamps, subsided housing, allowances while working jobs that pays cash so they don't have to lose their benefits.

Everyone has 3 choices with our current perceived inequitable structure
1. Whine about it and do nothing
2. Get a new government - Good luck. Those are the millionaires who will never give up their advantages. Sorry Democrats, your representatives will say one thing and Vote to keep all their benefits. Remember the Obamacare plans? Yes, they carved themselves out so they don't have to keep their old "inequitable" plans
3. Join them, make money, and use the tax advantages to your benefits.

I choose 3 b/c that is the only choice I control. If and when I am financially set, all of my taxes will drop b/c I will not be paying the high personal income tax and start to pay the lowered income taxes from my businesses.


You can only alienate the majority and create rules that keep them down and stack things in your favor for so long. History has shown time and time again that when inequality reaches a certain point, the masses go out for blood.
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Also I say this as someone who plans on doing exactly you are- storing up a few million then doing the FIRE thing. Billionaires though, they are a different breed.
 
I have no problem with the wealthy using whatever is legal to make a profit. NONE. That is the rules that are set out, and if they play within the rules then that is what they should do. It would be a breach of duty for anyone to not use everything within the law to increase profit for their company and thus themselves.

I am, as many docs, are millionaires. Every year, I use whatever tax deduction the government allows to pay the least amount of taxes possible. It would be fiduciarily irresponsibly to my family to do otherwise.

Companies/billionaires should do the same. If it is putting in complex corporate structures or "shell companies" in other counties to avoid taxes, if it is allowed then they SHOULD use it.

If the IRS allows all millionaires to open a shell company to avoid all of my taxes, you better believe I and every Millionaire would do the same.

The Poor do the same. Many receive food stamps, subsided housing, allowances while working jobs that pays cash so they don't have to lose their benefits.

Everyone has 3 choices with our current perceived inequitable structure
1. Whine about it and do nothing
2. Get a new government - Good luck. Those are the millionaires who will never give up their advantages. Sorry Democrats, your representatives will say one thing and Vote to keep all their benefits. Remember the Obamacare plans? Yes, they carved themselves out so they don't have to keep their old "inequitable" plans
3. Join them, make money, and use the tax advantages to your benefits.

I choose 3 b/c that is the only choice I control. If and when I am financially set, all of my taxes will drop b/c I will not be paying the high personal income tax and start to pay the lowered income taxes from my businesses.
Yeah... I play by the rules that I created.
 
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If you value your education, work hard, and live by the means of a 19th century hermit you can become a 8 figure man.
 
Also I say this as someone who plans on doing exactly you are- storing up a few million then doing the FIRE thing. Billionaires though, they are a different breed.
What's your timeline to FIRE after residency... What's your target $$$?


My timeline is 10 yrs after residency with 2 million $ in assets and ZERO outstanding debts (no mortgage, no car, credit card payments etc...)
 
Every county has their inequalities. There are billionaires and multimillionaires that uses influence to gain advantages.

There is no government that is the perfect and I feel the US has the one of the best.

Don't demonize billionaires. There are millionaires and non millionaires that use the system and influence much more for their gains.

Obama came into presidency right at $1 mil net worth. Very reasonable sum for his age. Fast forward 10 yrs and he is well over 40mil and just bought a 12 mil home with most of the wealth after leaving presidency. Do you really think he did much work for the 40 mil in 3 yrs?

Clintons made over 250MIL since leaving the white house, most on speaking fees. Do you really think their speeches are that valuable?

Its just stupid to demonize the billionaires when people like Clinton, Obama, and every other politician use the system to get rich.

Watch AOC when she gets out of office. From a waitress to a multimillionaire. Do you really think she will not use the system to get rich? Do you think she really will be back to being a waitress?

I have no issues with them getting paid what people are willing to pay. Anyone who demonizes the billionaires would be glad to take $250K for a 15 min speech. Glad to take the tax rebates for the company. If the state wanted to give you $50 million to open a $1 mil medical office, EVERY SINGLE person on here would take that offer even if it means you are using a rigged system. So don't kid yourself and don't be hippocritical.

Even for doctors the system is rigged. I have a standing offer for a "doctor's home loan" with $5% down up to $1mil at a 30 yr conventional 3% rate. Should I forgo this loan b./c the system is rigged for me?

The system is set up to award the successful, connected, and hard working. This is the way it should be. If you want to open benefits from the system, Work hard and be successful.
 
What's your timeline to FIRE after residency... What's your target $$$?


My timeline is 10 yrs after residency with 2 million $ in assets and ZERO outstanding debts (no mortgage, no car, credit card payments etc...)
Mine is about exactly the same. Looking to have 2 million with a 4% drawdown. Will work part time post-retirement, and will probably place a good portion of the money in an irrevocable trust to shield assets from death and disability
 
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Laws that allow corporations to not pay taxes.

Currently, from my understanding, they pay taxes on profit and not revenue (which would be like us paying taxes only on the $ left over after we’ve paid our mortgages, food, cars etc). - Movie companies create separate mini-companies and then charge the parent company a buttload of $ for their needs in order to show a “loss” and hence pay less to none taxes.

So you think if I spend $80 creating something and sell it for $100 I should pay taxes on $100 not $20? Really? How long do you think I'll stay in business doing that? I'll give you a hint. About 15 minutes. The taxes on $100 in the top bracket are $37. So now it costs me $117 to make $100. I'm guessing you don't have a business degree... :)
 
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Also I say this as someone who plans on doing exactly you are- storing up a few million then doing the FIRE thing. Billionaires though, they are a different breed.

Why do you think you have a right to a few million? Why do you think that those with a lot more than you don’t have a right to their money?

Lots of people think their is no reason anyone should have a “few million”. You can live off of SS, why do you need an extra $80k/year?
 
Kids are Expensive but Boy do I enjoy them. One thing I enjoy is raising them with the mindset that they can only depend on yourself, there is no such thing as a participation award, and life rewards people who fight through perceived disadvantages not ones who dwells on it.

Fall and hurt yourself - Your fine, get up and brush it off
Teacher is favoring another child - so what, this is life. Work harder
Too much homework/too hard - Do you want to be successful?

I am fine with whining and listening to the whining, but they need to understand that complaining does nothing to fix the laws of economics/life. If you want to succeed, play within the current structure and outwork others.

Everyone on here are likely doctors/doctors to be. You will have advantages that most americans will never have, but you will take them. No different than billionaires/multi millionaires.

I have a maid that costs me $200 for 8 hrs of cleaning. That is 8 hrs that I can work to make $2k. Doctor's loans. Investments for high income earners. Free healthcare from other doctors. Better medical access.

I can make a laundry list of what money can do and this comes from someone that is a low end millionaire. Of course the billionaires will have 1000X the advantage. But don't demonize the billionaires when most millionaire docs use advantages built into the system that is not avail to 90% of the population.
 
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Why do you think you have a right to a few million? Why do you think that those with a lot more than you don’t have a right to their money?

Lots of people think their is no reason anyone should have a “few million”. You can live off of SS, why do you need an extra $80k/year?
Never said I had a right to anything. Social security isn't enough to live on by any measure, and honestly if I could opt out so I could self-fund my retirement I would but that isn't possible. And I want to get out of the capitalist rat race, which has only two ways out- bide your time and save your money so you can exit and live reasonably without the stressors of work and life, or become a hobo or monk that eschews all material possessions for a sense of spiritual freedom.

I really don't care which system we operate under, because my ultimate goal will always be to exit it and live a life of simplicity and peace with my wife.
 
You can only alienate the majority and create rules that keep them down and stack things in your favor for so long. History has shown time and time again that when inequality reaches a certain point, the masses go out for blood.
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Plus, you're more likely to be homeless than you are to ever be a billionaire. Probably 0% of us in this thread will ever be billionaires. Becoming a billionaire is either about inheritance or getting lucky that people liked your idea.
 
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Plus, you're more likely to be homeless than you are to ever be a billionaire. Probably 0% of us in this thread will ever be billionaires. Becoming a billionaire is either about inheritance or getting lucky that people liked your idea.

Sorry dude, but people become billionaires by running successful, businesses. Usually multiple business. That isn't exactly luck. That is hard work and skill that few people possess.

Business is really one the only places you can have unlimited growth in your income.
 
Sorry dude, but people become billionaires by running successful, businesses. Usually multiple business. That isn't exactly luck. That is hard work and skill that few people possess.

Business is really one the only places you can have unlimited growth in your income.

Nah, hard work and skill is only a small part of becoming a billionaire. Most of it is luck. There are plenty of smart as hell people working insane hours starting businesses that will never see them become worth that much.
 
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Sorry dude, but people become billionaires by running successful, businesses. Usually multiple business. That isn't exactly luck. That is hard work and skill that few people possess.

Business is really one the only places you can have unlimited growth in your income.

There is a huge difference between wealthy and earning a lot. A billionaire is someone who lived a frugal life in comparison to their earnings and earned a lot. There is a much larger percentage of people capable of becoming a billionaire than there are actual billionaires. Ferrari, kids, mega houses, yachts, extravagant nightly dinners, and etc. get in the way of most people becoming billionaires. If you believe that saving in excess is immoral than becoming a billionaire may be immoral. Most billionaires are surrounded by finance rock stars and will continue to grow the economy and generate more jobs that will improve the quality of life of people. Imagine waking up with 5 million in your bank account and saying to yourself you're going to go back to work for the good of humanity.
 
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