Is dentistry future-proof?

[Optogal]

Hi folks

I'm in a position where I can make career recommendations for young people.

I'm trying to be very forward looking. I'm aware that due to advances in tech, biotech, AI etc. that the job market in 25 years could be very different from what we have now. It would seem that a procedure-based profession is safer from redundancy than something that can be delegated to sensors and an algorithm.

Is it therefore safe to say, that dentistry, more so than even family medicine, is better equipped to withstand the advancements of technology? I do not believe roboticizing root canals and cavities will ever a priority, and thus dentistry will remain viable for the foreseeable future.

Thoughts? Thank you in advance.

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[TravisB]

I don't see how you could automatic any type of actual dental work. I think in that way dentistry is safe. It will be cost prohibitive to become a dentist and probably not worth it at all very soon. In some ways we are already there.

 

[Mav23]

This is a great topic to bring up. As technology continues to advance it's definitely something to keep in mind. For diagnosis purposes I have heard from "futurists" in the DSO world that CBCTs in a mall where a patient can get an AI generated print out of their treatment plan is not far away. While we have things like the Yomi, gentle wave, 3D printed surgical guides that help the dentist with the procedure, it feels like we are still far away from having a fully automated mechanism in place to diagnose, start, and finish the procedure. I remember reading last year about a company called cyberdontics raising 15 million dollars last year to automate dental procedures. Even if they did achieve that, will it be more efficient than a human, will patient's be comfortable with a machine performing their procedure, how long will it take for legislation to allow it to operate, will the cost of the machine be so high that the barriers to entry prevent it from becoming widespread, idk food for thought...

 

[Optogal]

I don't see how you could automatic any type of actual dental work. I think in that way dentistry is safe. It will be cost prohibitive to become a dentist and probably not worth it at all very soon. In some ways we are already there.

This might be the first time I've been in this sub. So I gather that the economics of dentistry aren't good for new practitioners? Why is this?

This is a great topic to bring up. As technology continues to advance it's definitely something to keep in mind. For diagnosis purposes I have heard from "futurists" in the DSO world that CBCTs in a mall where a patient can get an AI generated print out of their treatment plan is not far away. While we have things like the Yomi, gentle wave, 3D printed surgical guides that help the dentist with the procedure, it feels like we are still far away from having a fully automated mechanism in place to diagnose, start, and finish the procedure. I remember reading last year about a company called cyberdontics raising 15 million dollars last year to automate dental procedures. Even if they did achieve that, will it be more efficient than a human, will patient's be comfortable with a machine performing their procedure, how long will it take for legislation to allow it to operate, will the cost of the machine be so high that the barriers to entry prevent it from becoming widespread, idk food for thought...

What is DSO and CBCT?

 

[TravisB]

This might be the first time I've been in this sub. So I gather that the economics of dentistry aren't good for new practitioners? Why is this?



What is DSO and CBCT?

A new dentist has to go to college and then dental school. This can take 7-9 ish years and possibly 400-500k of student loans. Insurance reimbursements are not always going up. There are more dental school opening and pumping out new dentists. These are not in a new dentist's favor.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

It will be cost prohibitive to become a dentist and probably not worth it at all very soon.

This. Especially this.

and possibly 400-500k of student loans

Some schools, like USC and NYU, are already bumping up against $800,000. That is absolutely insane! Want to then go on to a specialty residency that charges tuition? Well then, you might be looking at $1,200,000 in student loans when it’s all done. Have fun with that!

Big Hoss

 

[Optogal]

Some schools, like USC and NYU, are already bumping up against $800,000.

800k just for tuition?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

800k just for tuition?

Total cost of attendance (tuition, fees, living expenses, accrued interest, etc.)

Big Hoss

 

[Optogal]

Total cost of attendance (tuition, fees, living expenses, accrued interest, etc.)

Big Hoss

Just for the 4 year degree?

That is a monumental debt that is basically equivalent to a large mortgage. Even with a decent salary that would take decades to pay off. What would the interest rate be on that loan?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

What would the interest rate be on that loan?

Somewhere around 7%.

Big Hoss

 

[Optogal]

I never thought to consider tuition costs as I'm in Canada and I'm quite sure it isn't nearly as crippling as they are in the US.

With regards to my initial query (re: obsolescence), is it fair to consider dentistry fairly future proof?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

If robots can do surgery, what makes you think they won’t be able to do dentistry one day?

 

[deleted923283]

If high-school graduates can get accredited to do fillings, what comes next?

 

[Molar Whisperer]

I never thought to consider tuition costs as I'm in Canada and I'm quite sure it isn't nearly as crippling as they are in the US.

With regards to my initial query (re: obsolescence), is it fair to consider dentistry fairly future proof?

I think the dental industry model of the common solo practice may become obsolete with the exception of a few successful private practitioners. I see the dentist getting squeezed by high tuition as mentioned above, low 3rd party reimbursements of 40 to 50% off standard fees, prohibitive cost of operation (staff shortages, dental supplies and equipment, maintenance and repair, rent/building costs, and numerous insurances). The majority of my patients don't care about dentistry other than getting out of pain and not paying a dime. I see the ability and domination of corporate dentistry to withstand all those prohibitive factors and make life difficult for dentists. Unfortunately I see a negative outlook for our younger generation with unsustainable tuition costs, housing, health insurance, cost of living, etc.

 

[Optogal]

If robots can do surgery, what makes you think they won’t be able to do dentistry one day?

That's what I'm here to ask. It's not that I think robots won't do dentistry, it's that I don't know if there is an impetus for the development of robots to do dentistry. Perhaps you know the answer to this question?

If high-school graduates can get accredited to do fillings, what comes next?

Is this happening or are you replying facetiously?

Unfortunately I see a negative outlook for our younger generation with unsustainable tuition costs, housing, health insurance, cost of living, etc.

OK but non-prospective dental students have to deal with housing, health insurance, and cost of living issues also.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Is this happening or are you replying facetiously?

Look up “dental therapist” on the Google machine.

Big Hoss

 

[Optogal]

Look up “dental therapist” on the Google machine.

Big Hoss

+1. Never heard of that.

Alright. Obviously I'm suffering from a bit of "grass is greener" syndrome. I didn't know about any of the concerns in your profession.

 

[deleted923283]

+1. Never heard of that.

Alright. Obviously I'm suffering from a bit of "grass is greener" syndrome. I didn't know about any of the concerns in your profession.

look up EFDA while you’re at it

 

[Molar Whisperer]

OK but non-prospective dental students have to deal with housing, health insurance, and cost of living issues also.

Yes, I was referring to the entire younger generation. I think dentistry may follow similar paths as in medicine in the US. There will be more corporate structure, more bureaucracy BS, more insurance dictating treatment, less provider control, and less income. There will always be outliers..."Dr. Smith made $100M last year, what are you talking about?" My advice for the prospective US Dental Students is to think clearly of the kind of debt one may incur and not get seduced by the lifestyle of the dentist he or she may have shadowed. I had a college student shadow me about 15 years ago (before the Great Recession) and he may have been impressed with how easy the high dollar procedures such as crowns, implants and root canals seem. In reality, many people cannot afford those procedures and insurance will not pay the full amount. Dentistry can still provide a comfortable living but so can other professions (my CPA acquaintance makes more money in 1 month than I make in a year. He knows how to hide it better).

 

[OncePreDent]

A new dentist has to go to college and then dental school. This can take 7-9 ish years and possibly 400-500k of student loans. Insurance reimbursements are not always going up. There are more dental school opening and pumping out new dentists. These are not in a new dentist's favor.

I feel like $400k-$500k is the new "norm" for dental school debt. If you can get through dental school with less than $400k in debt it seems like a pretty good deal.

Another issue that hasn't really been discussed on this form yet is dentistry does not keep up with inflation. Overhead continues to rise and outpaces income generated, making the profitability of owning a dental office smaller every year.

 

[stealyoface]

If robots can do surgery, what makes you think they won’t be able to do dentistry one day?

Robots aren’t operating on people lol. Robotic surgery is when a surgeon performs the surgery via a robot like a Da Vinci. It’s remote control and not an AI robot performing the surgery without human interference

 

[deleted1047421]

Robots aren’t operating on people lol. Robotic surgery is when a surgeon performs the surgery via a robot like a Da Vinci. It’s remote control and not an AI robot performing the surgery without human interference

Also there is usually another human surgeon/surgical assistant also suctioning and retracting in the room, standing next to the patient. It’s not just the lead surgeon operating the machine remotely.

Robotic surgery is not happening for dentistry.

 

[Enrico_Fermi]

I’m in the school of thought that since there is such a widespread need for dentists as a whole, this industry will always be recession proof.

 

[deleted1047421]

Yes dentistry is pretty much future proof. You will always make a decent income with this job.

In good times, you pretty much make the same money as you always did, when your friends in tech and AI are making monstrous gains in net worth from their compensation in stocks.
But then again, you pretty much do the same, when your friends in tech are losing their jobs when the economy is doing bad. No one will replace you. Your jobs will not be outsourced. But then again your job is labor intensive. Like everything else in life, there are pros and cons.

There will be minor advances here and there, but by and large, the job will remain the same for decades to come.

 

[yappy]

No one can predict the future, even less so now that we’re at the threshold of generalized artificial intelligence.

 

[Enrico_Fermi]

Yes dentistry is pretty much future proof. You will always make a decent income with this job.

In good times, you pretty much make the same money as you always did, when your friends in tech and AI are making monstrous gains in net worth from their compensation in stocks.
But then again, you pretty much do the same, when your friends in tech are losing their jobs when the economy is doing bad. No one will replace you. Your jobs will not be outsourced. But then again your job is labor intensive. Like everything else in life, there are pros and cons.

There will be minor advances here and there, but by and large, the job will remain the same for decades to come.

Extremely well said

 

[dent2394]

No one can predict the future, even less so now that we’re at the threshold of generalized artificial intelligence.

Most people here don’t understand the rate of acceleration of artificial intelligence, nor do they want to believe that their profession will be replaced by robots sometime in the future. I would say dentistry is more immune than most professions but certainly not immune from super human intelligent automation.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Most people here don’t understand the rate of acceleration of artificial intelligence, nor do they want to believe that their profession will be replaced by robots sometime in the future. I would say dentistry is more immune than most professions but certainly not immune from super human intelligent automation.

The day they build a robot that can do treatment on a crying, wiggly 4 year old kid, I’ll gladly quit dentistry. AI and robotics aren’t going to replace me for many, many decades. My accountant friend on the other hand…

Big Hoss

 

[Saddleshoes]

To build on what Big Hoss said:


Robots, Inflation, Mid-Level Providers, Student Debt, AI, Etc....

There will always be a need for a skilled, caring, professional to lay hands on the problems of our fellow humans.
****NEVER underestimate the extreme value of compassionate human touch. (Especially in our impersonal modern world!)

 

[Enrico_Fermi]

Most people here don’t understand the rate of acceleration of artificial intelligence, nor do they want to believe that their profession will be replaced by robots sometime in the future. I would say dentistry is more immune than most professions but certainly not immune from super human intelligent automation.

I do not see a world in which AI takes a considerable role in dentistry/medicine as a whole, maybe I’m just too traditional and conservative to accept change .