Is EM considered Primary Care?

[ASDIC]

I know its a subspecialty of internal med, but I just want to know whether its considered an area of primary care.

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[Febrifuge]

EM is a subspecialty of Internal Med?

 

[cooldreams]

EM is a subspecialty of Internal Med?

news to me... can this be proven some way??

 

[cooldreams]

I know its a subspecialty of internal med, but I just want to know whether its considered an area of primary care.

i know it is specifically considered primary care in some states, but others never acknowledge it either way. i think because it is a relatively new area, the laws were never updated to define this...

 

[spyderdoc]

I know its a subspecialty of internal med

 

[ASDIC]

so maybe its not a intmed subspecialty...but still is it a primary care area?

 

[raptor5]

For what reason are you asking. Some states do include EM in their physician shortages and will pay tuition reimbursement, but the federal gov't does not. I could be wrong.

 

[Sessamoid]

so maybe its not a intmed subspecialty...but still is it a primary care area?

In general, no. Also, it's not and never has been a subspecialty of internal medicine.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I know its a subspecialty of internal med, but I just want to know whether its considered an area of primary care.

Emergency medicine is considered primary care in Oklahoma but not in Texas. I can't vouch for other states.

Emergency medicine isn't a subspecialty, but you can do a combined residency in both IM and EM if you so desire.

 

[stoic]

Kansas considers EM primary care.

 

[edinOH]

Emergency medicine is considered primary care in Oklahoma but not in Texas. I can't vouch for other states.

Emergency medicine isn't a subspecialty, but you can do a combined residency in both IM and EM if you so desire.

EM is considered primary care in Oklahoma? News to me. Are you referring to the Physician Manpower Scholarship or whatever? When I was there in school, EM wasn't considered primary care, nor should it have been.

I tell you one thing though, regardless of what the government says, I can guaran-damned-tee you that many of my patients consider EM primary care!

 

[Febrifuge]

I tell you one thing though, regardless of what the government says, I can guaran-damned-tee you that many of my patients consider EM primary care!

Word to that.

And to the OP, please forgive the snark, but EM is not a subspecialty of anything. EM is itself a specialty, like IM or Ortho or FP or Peds or any of the things it might resemble on a given day. It's the most recent one, created as its own specialty in (I think) 1973. So, 30 years later and in a thread for Emergency Med people, there's a little bit of shock and surprise at the suggestion. It's nothing personal, just messing with you. Sort of like if you'd said, "now, I know Frankfurt is in East Germany..."

 

[DrMom]

EM is considered primary care in Oklahoma? News to me. Are you referring to the Physician Manpower Scholarship or whatever? When I was there in school, EM wasn't considered primary care, nor should it have been.

EM is not included in the physician manpower program ( http://www.pmtc.state.ok.us/slrpoverview.htm ) and I've not seen it included as primary care for anything official in Oklahoma.

 

[OSUdoc08]

EM is not included in the physician manpower program ( http://www.pmtc.state.ok.us/slrpoverview.htm ) and I've not seen it included as primary care for anything official in Oklahoma.

I AM referring to PTMC:

http://www.pmtc.state.ok.us/rurlcntr.pdf

CONTRACT FOR OKLAHOMA RURAL MEDICAL EDUCATION LOAN AND SCHOLARSHIP FUND:

Section C - Obligations of the Recipient The recipient agrees to:
...7. Complete at least one year (maximum five years) of postgraduate training in a primary care specialty (family/general practice, internal medicine, ob/gyn, pediatrics or EMERGENCY MEDICINE) after a medical degree is received....

 

[stoic]

Dr. Mom got pwned!

 

[DrMom]

Dr. Mom got pwned!

happens to the best of us

if you look on the page I posted, it has a list that doesn't include EM. Go figure.

 

[stoic]

happens to the best of us

if you look on the page I posted, it has a list that doesn't include EM. Go figure.

I don't know about Oklahoma, but for Kansas this a brand spanking new change. So all of the info may not be updated yet. For example, the application that came with my acceptance list EM as a primary care field, but the website does not yet. I confirmed EM as a primary care field with the financial aid off at KU.

I'll tell ya, 4 years of being paid to go to med school sounds pretty nice...

 

[cooldreams]

I don't know about Oklahoma, but for Kansas this a brand spanking new change. So all of the info may not be updated yet. For example, the application that came with my acceptance list EM as a primary care field, but the website does not yet. I confirmed EM as a primary care field with the financial aid off at KU.

I'll tell ya, 4 years of being paid to go to med school sounds pretty nice...

i bet.... i really want to get into a program like that as well... are there any states that dont care if you are a resident there or not for a similar "during medical school" type payout?? missouri does not recognise em as such at all...

 

[flighterdoc]

For what reason are you asking. Some states do include EM in their physician shortages and will pay tuition reimbursement, but the federal gov't does not. I could be wrong.

Which states?

 

[cooldreams]

Which states?

 

[Firebird]

be careful about these "we'll pay your tuition if you go into primary care" deals. if you suddenly realize that primary care isn't for you, and you default on your deal, you may end up owing much, much more than if you had taken the loans...

 

[cooldreams]

be careful about these "we'll pay your tuition if you go into primary care" deals. if you suddenly realize that primary care isn't for you, and you default on your deal, you may end up owing much, much more than if you had taken the loans...

no not really. just pay back at an interest rate... unless you are talking about some mob deal....

 

[FoughtFyr]

no not really. just pay back at an interest rate... unless you are talking about some mob deal....

No, the State of Illinois makes theirs due in full if you breech the contract. That would include not practicing primary care.

- H

 

[Firebird]

no not really. just pay back at an interest rate... unless you are talking about some mob deal....

Yes, yes really.

 

[maxheadroom]

I had a classmate who took the Missouri primary care loan, certain as an M1 that all she wanted to do with her life was be a rural FP. Imagine her distress as an M4, after three years of primary care loan-financed education, when she matched in Urology and had to figure out how to refinance her educational debt, pay for a wedding, buy a house, and move (with her soon to be resident husband) all at the same time.

Bottom line: don't commit to ANY sort of money for service program unless you're 100% dead-certain that it's what you want . . .

 

[cooldreams]

dood.. if she did that, then she is 100000 dollars richer than otherwise, what did she do with that money???

oh wait... those are loans for school... duh...... hmmm if you didnt get that then what would she have done... hmmm ... oh yea... got loans for school... duh...

imagine that that money could have gone to another student who really was going to do primary care... oh well!!

go back and read the find print ppl... you are all wrong for talking this down. i think she is nuts to have gone into urology, primary care is where it is at... but check this out:

"PRIMO Scholars do have the option of repaying their debt in cash. All Funds received by PRIMO Scholars accrue interest at the rate of 9.5 percent annually. Interest begins accruing from the date the check is issued. Cash Repayment periods are a maximum of 60 months."

http://www.dhss.state.mo.us/CommunityHealthInitiatives/RHPCPRIMOFAQs.htm#repayment

so while it is just 5 years, she still gets a payment plan, and that is still money she got from somewhere. 5 years at 9.5% interest is nothing compared to the typical 30 years scenerio. and then getting married and all that stuff... that is all personal stuff too. sounds to me she made some bad decisions and they caught up with her, but she still has a lot of lee way.

this program is very competitive and it saddens me to know that there are many ppl that go into it and then wait 4 years to change their mind.

 

[stoic]

basically if you don't do end up in primary care you took out your med school loans are a really really bad interest rate. here in kansas it's like 15% from the date of first issue of you default.

so yea, i've got a lot of thinking to do about this.

 

[Seaglass]

so while it is just 5 years, she still gets a payment plan, and that is still money she got from somewhere. 5 years at 9.5% interest is nothing compared to the typical 30 years scenerio. and then getting married and all that stuff... that is all personal stuff too. sounds to me she made some bad decisions and they caught up with her, but she still has a lot of lee way.

Dood, I got my loans at no interest during medical school. If I had done that program I would have had the same loans at 15% (way higher than Stafford) THAT IS ACCRUING while I'm in school. That is a sucky deal no matter which way you cut it. No doubt you wouldn't be able to consolidate them either, so no way to lock in that phat ~3% interest rate.

 

[cooldreams]

well that is cool. i would assume most ppl dont get loans for 0% interest. i guess unless you do this program, and work as you PROMISED you would when you signed up. congrats on your 0%, how can i get that????????

i dont know if you are aware or even care, but for noobies like myself, the stafford loans are going to be a fixed rate, at like 6.5% or something instead of the near 0% that some of you older types have flaunted...

 

[fuegorama]

Back-to-the OP's somewhat confused query.

1. Is being considered "primary care" in any way harmful to the specialty of EM?

2. If the answer to #1 is "no", how can the profession move state/federal agencies to recognize it ? In other words, how can EM be brought under the umbrella of USHSC repayment?

3. Could the prospect of USHSC involvement be a BAD thing?

 

[FoughtFyr]

Back-to-the OP's somewhat confused query.

1. Is being considered "primary care" in any way harmful to the specialty of EM?

2. If the answer to #1 is "no", how can the profession move state/federal agencies to recognize it ? In other words, how can EM be brought under the umbrella of USHSC repayment?

3. Could the prospect of USHSC involvement be a BAD thing?

The answer to #1 is "maybe". The argument against EM a specialty has always been that any primary care doctor could effectively provide emergency care. In order to move away from that false premise, the EM organizations have fought to distance EM from "primary care".

The "danger" to #2 and #3 would be in the USHSC not limiting EM to board certified EPs. When USHSC gets involved in medical eduaction it is usually to try and meet the needs of underserved areas. While there is a "shortage" of BE/BC EPs in some areas, the problem I could see is in USHSC allowing FPs or GPs to practice EM under their sponsored programs in order to meet this need. This could give those non BE/BC physicians a boost toward remaining in EM practice.

- H

 

[fuegorama]

FF-
Thanks. That's pretty much the take I've heard before.

EMPs bridge the primary care gap. However, if a case is made for government education funding, then folks providing primary care will be potentially eligible to describe themselves as emergency physicians.

Maybe it's a reason for a new thread, but I wonder about other repayment options for EM.

As reimbursements plummet (a close friend went 6 weeks w/out a paycheck last Spring ) and my loans loom, how am I gonna get out of this hole and back in the earning-a-living world.

If the military is out, and the profession could be harmed by USHSC guarantees, what other programs are around?