Is every US Med student guaranteed a residency match upon graduation?

[dbrokut]

The reason I am asking this is because I visited several med school sites and they often have match lists for the current graduating class and it seems that everyone was matched somewhere.. may it be their first choice or the last. But they were all matched somewhere for residency.

Also, I was just wondering about the length of residency that people say vary... but I'm confused as to what that varies on?.. On just the type of specialty you go into or does it also depend on how well you do in residency?

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[lord_jeebus]

No guarantee.

Length of residency is determined by specialty.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

in practice you're certain to get SOME residency or other as long as you don't earn any black marks in medical school.

 

[muhali3]

Residency length is dependent upon the specialty you choose. IM/Pediatrics being the shortest, and specialized surgery being the longest. You can find out more here http://www.aamc.org/students/cim/specialties.htm

 

[dbrokut]

Residency length is dependent upon the specialty you choose. IM/Pediatrics being the shortest, and specialized surgery being the longest. You can find out more here http://www.aamc.org/students/cim/specialties.htm

Thanks! Very helpful site.

Also what determines one's completion of residency? Do you get any certificate or something after you finish the residency since you already get MD degree when you graduate from Med school?

Also what is internship that a lot of folks often talk abt? Is it part of residency or like a summer rotation after graduation and before residency??? Is it required, recommended?.. Relative Importance?

 

[FlowLimited]

Thanks! Very helpful site.

Also what determines one's completion of residency? Do you get any certificate or something after you finish the residency since you already get MD degree when you graduate from Med school?

Also what is internship that a lot of folks often talk abt? Is it part of residency or like a summer rotation after graduation and before residency??? Is it required, recommended?.. Relative Importance?

Interns are first year residents.

 

[adeline]

You really really really need to know some of this stuff before you decide to go pre med.

 

[sunset823]

Thanks! Very helpful site.

Also what determines one's completion of residency? Do you get any certificate or something after you finish the residency since you already get MD degree when you graduate from Med school?

Also what is internship that a lot of folks often talk abt? Is it part of residency or like a summer rotation after graduation and before residency??? Is it required, recommended?.. Relative Importance?

To the previous poster, not everybody has to know the ins and outs of everything dealing with medicine to want to be a doctor - that would cut out a lot of people who come from backgrounds where medicine is not well known within their community but who could be excellent physicians.

To the OP, you get a diploma of sorts after finishing residency, and you also become board certified in your specialty (for people who do a prelim year, they are usually board certified in the prelim as well, either internal med or general surgery).

Internship is the first year of residency, as someone said, but it comes in several flavors. For internal med, pediatrics, and general surgery, internship is just the first year of your residency and nothing really changes after you're done with this year. For most other specialties, though, you are required to have either a transition year (where you rotate through several specialties, sorta like an extension to clinical years of med school) or a preliminary year in either internal medicine or general surgery before moving on to your residency in your second year. In these cases, the transitional/prelim year can occur in a completely separate geographic location from where you actually do your residency.

Hope this helps!

 

[adeline]

It's called Google.

 

[266549]

You really really really need to know some of this stuff before you decide to go pre med.

??? were you born knowing all the ins and outs of medicine?
if so, your mom must've been watching a lot of doogie howser md while she was pregnant.

i've never not known that i want to go to medical school...even though when i was little i though of other careers, i always knew i was going to medical school eventually. i didn't really research things like residency/internship, fellowships, etc until this past year for the most part. not saying that you shouldn't know all that you can before actually APPLYING, but before going pre-med??? pshhhh


HOWEVER i do have a question relating to this thread. on all the data tables available for residencies and matches, what do the allo 4th years do when/if they do not get a residency? the number of ppl per yr is quite small, but still there every year. what happens to them? black hole?

 

[adeline]

If you don't know that you're looking at 4 yrs of outstanding ugrad, 4 yrs of med school, 3-5 years of residency (inc the first yr = intern) and most likely fellowship), declining reimbursement, med mal, crappy lifestyle unless you're running some spiffy private practice, et al, before committing to the path, you are an idiot.

The end.

 

[danimjo]

If you don't know that you're looking at 4 yrs of outstanding ugrad, 4 yrs of med school, 3-5 years of residency (inc the first yr = intern) and most likely fellowship), declining reimbursement, med mal, crappy lifestyle unless you're running some spiffy private practice, et al, before committing to the path, you are an idiot.

The end.

Wow! Seems a little harsh, how is one supposed to learn if they are greeted with such snarkiness...

OP keep asking questions and learning about the field....

 

[danimjo]

Residency length is dependent upon the specialty you choose. IM/Pediatrics being the shortest, and specialized surgery being the longest. You can find out more here http://www.aamc.org/students/cim/specialties.htm

Great site thanks for sharing that resource!

 

[Law2Doc]

There are more than enough residency spots for every US graduate, but that doesn't mean you're guaranteed one of them.

Agreed. No guaranty. More than a few US grass end up in the scramble, or do an extra research year, or simply snag a prelim year before reapplying to the match. There are enough slots to accomodate all US applicants, but that assumes applicants are specialty or geographically indifferent. So yes everyone COULD get a spot, but every year many don't because they didn't want to to FM in Nebraska.

 

[STXGregor]

Going pre-med is committing to the field? lol. I'm sure we all knew this was a long tough road before going premed, but I didn't waste time learning every detail of residency. I'll learn soon enough.

 

[Denver89]

Hi i'm adeline and i'm a pompous ass.. You do realize that sdn IS for people like myself and the OP who are trying to get as much information as possible before deciding to take the biggest leap of our lives that is going into medicine.

Adeline, you might do great in medical school, but you're failing life.

 

[sustentacular]

If you don't know that you're looking at 4 yrs of outstanding ugrad, 4 yrs of med school, 3-5 years of residency (inc the first yr = intern) and most likely fellowship), declining reimbursement, med mal, crappy lifestyle unless you're running some spiffy private practice, et al, before committing to the path, you are an idiot.

The end.

seriously? if you're annoyed by somone's questions your best route is to just not reply.

 

[Narmerguy]

If you don't know that you're looking at 4 yrs of outstanding ugrad, 4 yrs of med school, 3-5 years of residency (inc the first yr = intern) and most likely fellowship), declining reimbursement, med mal, crappy lifestyle unless you're running some spiffy private practice, et al, before committing to the path, you are an idiot.

The end.

Hi i'm adeline and i'm a pompous ass.. You do realize that sdn IS for people like myself and the OP who are trying to get as much information as possible before deciding to take the biggest leap of our lives that is going into medicine.

Adeline, you might do great in medical school, but you're failing life.

You didn't really come out looking much better bud.

Seriously people need to chill on the whole "How can you NOT know the most common type of boxers for your specialty??!!!!?!"

 

[Compass]

If you don't know that you're looking at 4 yrs of outstanding ugrad, 4 yrs of med school, 3-5 years of residency (inc the first yr = intern) and most likely fellowship), declining reimbursement, med mal, crappy lifestyle unless you're running some spiffy private practice, et al, before committing to the path, you are an idiot.

The end.

I don't know what type of hedgehog you stepped on, but I feel sorry for the hedgehog.

 

[URHere]

HOWEVER i do have a question relating to this thread. on all the data tables available for residencies and matches, what do the allo 4th years do when/if they do not get a residency? the number of ppl per yr is quite small, but still there every year. what happens to them? black hole?

I haven't been through the match yet, but this is the gist of what happens to those who do not match:

There are two big dates when it comes to matching. On the first date, MS4s find out whether or not they have matched ANYWHERE. If they have, they sit pretty until the second date, when they will find out where they have matched (and in which specialty). If they have not matched, that student enters the scramble.

The scramble is a process where unmatched medical students contact programs with unfilled residency spots. Lists of these programs are released to schools, and the students must contact these schools in the hopes of snagging one of the unfilled spots. If they successfully land one of them, then that student will have a place to go, and his/her school can report their new position on the match list. If not, that student must do something else for a year (commonly research) and try again.

It is important to remember that some students may only match or scramble into a preliminary spot. For some specialties (e.g. the IM subspecialties), there is one year of prelim, followed by the remainder of the residency in the actual subspecialty. The prelim may be at the same institution as the rest of the residency, but it is very often not at the same place. If someone wants to go into cardiology, for example, they may find that they have a place to go for their first year, but no actual cardiology residency to go into after that.

And...to address a previous point. Yes, there are enough residency spots for US Allopathic graduates, but we are not the only ones applying for those spots. Carribean and DO graduates also often enter the Allopathic match for the US, and it is possible that US graduates will not land a spot if their board scores, clerkship grades, or interview/ranking techniques are not up to par.

 

[adeline]

Seriously people need to chill on the whole "How can you NOT know the most common type of boxers for your specialty??!!!!?!"

Real men go commando under their scrubs. 😎

I don't know what type of hedgehog you stepped on, but I feel sorry for the hedgehog.

There's more than one?

 

[shiftingmirage]

Also, I was just wondering about the length of residency that people say vary... but I'm confused as to what that varies on?.. On just the type of specialty you go into or does it also depend on how well you do in residency?

Just wanted to add that residency programs can vary based on where you do them. For EM, the governing body said a residency program should be 3.5 years. Medicare, which pays for residents' salaries, decided to only pay for a 3 year program, so private hospitals have 3 year EM residencies. Public hospitals tend to have 4 year residencies. idk if this applies to any other specialties.

As for residency, in 2009 93.1% of US allo students matched.
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2009.pdf

 

[iA-MD2013]

Let's try and avoid the insults and keep this thread on topic 🙂

 

[Law2Doc]

Just to avoid confusion, URhere, cardiology is not a residency. It is a subspecialty of IM. So you try to match into a categorical IM program.

 

[skyNice]

I suppose you're almost guaranteed a residency in the three primary care areas, i.e., family, internal, or pediatric medicine.

 

[Law2Doc]

I suppose you're almost guaranteed a residency in the three primary care areas, i.e., family, internal, or pediatric medicine.

No guarantees. The are people who scrambled in each of those specialties.


And to further clarify my above post, you don't do a prelim year to go into an IM subspecialty. The prior poster is wrong on that. You do a categorical 3-4 year residency in IM before you can subspecialize. The prelim year is generally used by folks going into a ROAD specialty, rad onc, neuro, PM&R, and folks who couldn't match categorically who are going to try again next year in the match with some resident experience.

 

[URHere]

Just to avoid confusion, URhere, cardiology is not a residency. It is a subspecialty of IM. So you try to match into a categorical IM program.

I suppose I wasn't very clear about that point in my post. I was just trying to provide an example of when someone would end up with a prelim-only match. I know people this past year who were aiming for IM subspecialties, but did not match beyond a prelim.

 

[Kaustikos]

I just want to match in Ortho in London, Kentucky.

 

[Law2Doc]

I suppose I wasn't very clear about that point in my post. I was just trying to provide an example of when someone would end up with a prelim-only match. I know people this past year who were aiming for IM subspecialties, but did not match beyond a prelim.

Again, IM subspecialties aren't residencies. IM is a residency. All they could be aiming for at this point is a categorical IM residency. They may have chosen a prelim because they couldn't get a categorical (3+ year) IM spot, but they didn't choose it because they couldn't get eg cards. Because cards is not an option at this stage. That is where you are confusing me. After 3 years of IM, they will be applying for the subspecialties, not before. Thus the ONLY people who go prelim are the ROAD specialties, PM&R, rad onc and neuro, because they need a prelim or transitional year, and people who didn't get what they wanted and are making do with a prelim year while they ready themselves for another shot at the match or prematch. Not people going into subspecialties in IM -- it's not necessary for that. those folks likely didn't get a categorical IM match and are making do, not that they didn't get into a subspecialty (which is not an option at the post-med-school stage). Hope that makes sense, and clears up your confusion.

 

[URHere]

Again, IM subspecialties aren't residencies. IM is a residency. All they could be aiming for at this point is a categorical IM residency. They may have chosen a prelim because they couldn't get a categorical (3+ year) IM spot, but they didn't choose it because they couldn't get eg cards. Because cards is not an option at this stage. That is where you are confusing me. After 3 years of IM, they will be applying for the subspecialties, not before. Thus the ONLY people who go prelim are the ROAD specialties, PM&R, rad onc and neuro, because they need a prelim or transitional year, and people who didn't get what they wanted and are making do with a prelim year while they ready themselves for another shot at the match or prematch. Not people going into subspecialties in IM -- it's not necessary for that. those folks likely didn't get a categorical IM match and are making do, not that they didn't get into a subspecialty (which is not an option at the post-med-school stage). Hope that makes sense, and clears up your confusion.

Again, I understand how the system works, and your constant attempts to "clear up my confusion" really aren't useful to this thread. Clearly we are having an error in communication somewhere. Let's just leave it at that.

 

[Law2Doc]

Again, I understand how the system works, and your constant attempts to "clear up my confusion" really aren't useful to this thread. Clearly we are having an error in communication somewhere. Let's just leave it at that.

Ok, I'll be more specific. You lost me in your sentence "For some specialties (e.g. the IM subspecialties), there is one year of prelim, followed by the remainder of the residency in the actual subspecialty." This is simply not true in any way shape or form for IM subspecialties. They are not residencies, nor do they require a prelim year. So that's where I think you are creating confusion for others on this board that needs to be cleared up. Glad that you are no longer confused. Cheers.

 

[URHere]

Ok, I'll be more specific. You lost me in your sentence "For some specialties (e.g. the IM subspecialties), there is one year of prelim, followed by the remainder of the residency in the actual subspecialty." This is simply not true in any way shape or form for IM subspecialties. They are not residencies, nor do they require a prelim year. So that's where I think you are creating confusion for others on this board that needs to be cleared up. Glad that you are no longer confused. Cheers.

Glad that you know how to end a conversation when it needs to be ended. I'll no longer be replying to your posts here so feel free to continue beating a dead horse.

 

[Law2Doc]

Glad that you know how to end a conversation when it needs to be ended. I'll no longer be replying to your posts here so feel free to continue beating a dead horse.

Wasn't about beating a dead horse, or really about you. Was about correcting misinformation before some premed reading this came away thinking that the medicine subspecialties were residencies or that they required prelim years. People rely on SDN to learn about the process, and that can only work if the bad information gets corrected.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

The reason I am asking this is because I visited several med school sites and they often have match lists for the current graduating class and it seems that everyone was matched somewhere.. may it be their first choice or the last. But they were all matched somewhere for residency.

Going way back to the beginning of this thread and sidestepping the arguments...

I'd like to point out that when schools publish their match lists, they don't usually put in the unmatched students with a big old blank or "unmatched" next to their name - they just leave them off the list entirely. The number of students going unmatched at any US med school is small, but it's not something you're going to see reflected on the match list itself.

 

[Law2Doc]

Going way back to the beginning of this thread and sidestepping the arguments...

I'd like to point out that when schools publish their match lists, they don't usually put in the unmatched students with a big old blank or "unmatched" next to their name - they just leave them off the list entirely. The number of students going unmatched at any US med school is small, but it's not something you're going to see reflected on the match list itself.

Agreed. Any match list of 130 people might really be the list taken from a class of 150. Don't get deluded into thinking that everybody on the list is everybody in the class. It never is.