Is everyone THIS ignorant?

[bullhorn]

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Ok, I am just slightly annoyed. I actually just spent about an hour on the phone answering the dumbest questions asked by one of my close friends whom I had not spoken to in a long time. I was telling her about my med schools apps and progress etc. As I went through schools, she stopped me to ask "Do you really want to be an Osteopathic doctor? So, I answered her explaining why I was interested in the programs etc etc. And she went on to ask me some very special questions:

1. Who will be my patient/client base for my practice?
2. Is this the same thing as a PA or the same level as a PA?
3. Is pay comparable to MD? (After I explained a PA would be MY assistant as I would be the physician 🙄 ).
4. How long is program? Can someone do an entry-to practice doctorate?
5. Well can't you just be an MD that does Alternative medicine?
😕

SIGH. I know I am in PA, so perhaps I am a bit sheltered living in an environment that is a DO haven. But, are people in general this ignorant? Folks who already are in programs or with DOs (younger folks)...do you get this type of questioning from family and friends?

The joke is I love this person dearly and she is actually was very sincere and not being facetious at all. I felt bad getting annoyed at her ignorance. How do other people deal with this?

 

[Shinken]

Get used to it. Osteopathic Medicine isn't well known (yet). I spoke to one of the people that go around visiting osteopathic schools to renew their AOA accreditation and we spoke briefly about this issue. He told me that the AOA has done a little bit to try and get the word out (i.e. some ads in magazines), but the AOA has the attitude that the DO's should be the main "advertising." In other words, the AOA doesn't want to make Osteopathic Medicine known via advertising or marketing campaigns but rather by the work of practicing DO's.

I have a story too. A close co-worker was asking me about my plans to attend medical school and I mentioned to him that I would be attending an osteopathic medical school. Of course, he had no idea what that was. I did my best to explain to him the basic history, tenets, etc. After I was finished, he thought for a few seconds and then said "so you'll be going around shaking a rattle to heal people, right?" Of course he was kidding, but his was a common reaction. Most people think that DO's are alternative practitioners (thanks to some weird OMT practices). It doesn't matter how much you stress that DO's are the same as MD's except that DO's learn OMT, people don't hear anything except the OMT part.

The good news is that most people will only know that you're a "doctor" and won't know (or care) about the letters after your name. I discovered Osteopathic Medicine thanks to a very competent doctor. I thought he was an MD because I assumed only MD's were complete physicians. Turns out he was a DO.

 

[group_theory]

I employ a useful technique when explaining osteopathic medicine

K*I*S*S

(keep it simple stupid)

most people don't care for a nice brief history, tenets, etc. They just want to know what osteopathic medicine (and osteopathic physicians) is

so I usually just go

"In the US, physicians come in two flavors, MDs and DOs. Both learn exactly the same material, and go through almost exactly the same training, but both have a slightly different philosophy into the practice of medicine"

That's it. Now, the statement isn't entirely accurate, but unless you are giving a deposition or testifying on the stand, you can get away with it.

Don't emphasize the OMT part - that will confuse the person even more and will equate DOs with chiropractors in their mind.

To bullhorn

Just keep emphasizing the fact that DOs are doctors/physicians. So to answer her questions

1. Who will be my patient/client base for my practice?

"Well, it will depend on where I practice and my specialty"

2. Is this the same thing as a PA or the same level as a PA?

Nope. Remember, DOs are medical and professional equivalent to MDs. DOs are doctors. So the PAs will be working under DOs supervision.

3. Is pay comparable to MD?

Why would it be different? DOs are doctors, just like MDs.

4. How long is program? Can someone do an entry-to practice doctorate?

4 years of med school, 3-7 years of residency, just like MDs. In fact, a lot of DOs end up doing their residency at big MD hospitals.

(i have no idea what entry-to practice doctorate is)

5. Well can't you just be an MD that does Alternative medicine?

Well, DOs isn't alternative medicine. We're part of mainstream medicine.

 

[Shinken]

Originally posted by group_theory
I employ a useful technique when explaining osteopathic medicine

K*I*S*S

(keep it simple stupid)

most people don't care for a nice brief history, tenets, etc. They just want to know what osteopathic medicine (and osteopathic physicians) is

so I usually just go

"In the US, physicians come in two flavors, MDs and DOs. Both learn exactly the same material, and go through almost exactly the same training, but both have a slightly different philosophy into the practice of medicine"

That's it. Now, the statement isn't entirely accurate, but unless you are giving a deposition or testifying on the stand, you can get away with it.

Yes, I agree with you. In my case, my co-worker wasn't looking for a quick explanation, he was genuinely interested in learning more about this new career I was embarking upon, hence the long explanation.

 

[Idiopathic]

I got it from some extended family, when I invited them to my white coat ceremony. "I thought you were going to be a real doctor?"🙄

 

[DireWolf]

I get the same questions all the time here in Tulsa. And this city has a huge population of DOs. Just goes to show how far we have yet to go.

 

[Echinoidea]

I agree with group_theory. Sometimes a long convoluted explanation only compounds the confusion. I think the less of a big deal we make about it, the more we come across as equals. If they express more interest, then I go into the whole A.T. Still monologue that I keep in my back pocket.

One thing I really would like to see is the AOA doing a better job of advertising the DO degree. A commercial during 'ER' on Thursday nights would probably do more to raise public awareness than has been done in the last 100 years.

 

[Febrifuge]

Don't feel bad. I first learned about DO schools when a friend of mine (who's about to be an MD intern) suggested I check them out, now that I'm headed toward doctorhood at my ripe old age. Some DO schools are really good, she said, and they often seem to have a better attitude about accepting older students.

I looked at her blankly and said, "but I don't want to be an eye doctor!"

A lot has changed since then, and I'm now really excited about training in a setting where the approach I want to take in the practice of medicine is valued and expressly emphasized.

But then, I was just well-meaning and sort of clueless. Like most people. Group_theory's idea is the best one; most people don't know that while a physician is a physician (legally and in terms of schooling), there is more than one kind. That's a news flash to most people.

 

[freesolo]

my freinds laughed at me for attending OSU's workshop, those "guys arent doctors, there wannabes" is what i got from one freind. "All DO's are ppl that couldnt cut it for an MD school" is what I got from the other one.

 

[NDESTRUKT]

just say...i guess i couldn't cut it then haha.

i could care less what people thought...seriously. i have friends that were like...DO's are less than even optometrists or whatever and i mean...you say what you say and if they think that way then let them. ur still going to be doing rounds and prescribing medicine and do surgery that you're qualified to do.

albiet i haven't chosen which school i want to attend (MD or DO), i have thought about these things and still...i could care less...there are cooler things in life to worry about. being a DO for me is better than being an engineer (what i am now), a mechanic, a nurse, a teacher, a fireman, or a policeman, so...why not, it's still a step up in professions.

 

[freesolo]

What about opening a practice, that negative stigma can hurt in business =/. So you might have to care what some people think.

 

[PublicHealth]

Once you complete your residency, you'll be an internist, neurologist, anesthesiologist, psychiatrist, surgeon, radiologist, etc. No one really cares if you're a DO or MD, especially if you're a well-rounded, polite, and skilled physician. In fact, many of the people I have spoken to who were treated by MDs and DOs actually prefer DOs for the reason that they tend to be more concerned about their total well-being, including physical, emotional, familial, and social factors. In my shadowing experience, I have experienced first-hand the difference between MDs and DOs. The DOs that I have shadowed (N = 5), for instance, managed to get a much more comprehensive history of their patients than any of the MDs that I have shadowed (N = 9), and also tended to consider a wider range of treatment options. Naturally, there are confounding variables that may have affected my conclusions, but some recently published studies have confirmed this distinction between DOs and MDs through rigorous and systematic research.

The osteopathic medical profession is expanding very quickly. In 10-20 years, a much larger percentage of the US population will become familiar with osteopathic medicine simply because of the increased number of osteopathic physicians that will be practicing then. In the meantime, current DOs, students, and pre-osteopathic students will do well to spread the word and educate the public about this burgeoning area of healthcare.

PH

 

[SawBones]

Sorry, Bullhorn, but you need new friends. Apparently some of them have the IQ of mayonnaise.

My thoughts...

I love to talk about osteopathic medicine with people who are clueless. However, I alter my explanations based on the apparent intelligence of my audience. I also enjoy talking with people who are skeptical about my training. Why? Because I tend to change their mind RAPIDLY due to the fact that I speak with confidence, something many of our matriculants lack. I do not immediately go on the defensive, like so many do. Sometimes, I even go on the offensive. Okay, OFTEN I go on the offensive.

For example, if a relatively intelligent person questions your training, try the following responses:

Jim: "DO's, but those are not real doctors."

You: "Wow, Jim, we've been around for over 120 years, have you been living under a rock? I was under the impression you were very well-read, or at least somewhat familiar with the basic tenets of medical education in this country. I guess I overestimated you. I mean, geesh, Jim, c'mon."

Now, because you have subtly suggested that he possesses the brainpower of processed cheese food, you will usually get the response:

Jim: "Oh... well, yes... I knew that... DO's are physicians, I was fully aware... uh, yeah... they are like chiropractors, right?"

Then you respond...

You: "Oh, Jim... Jim, Jim, Jim. Have you ever seen a chiropractor prescribe medicine?"

Jim: "Uh, no."

You: "Have you ever seen a chiropractor do brain surgery?"

Jim: "Uh, no."

You: "Well DO's do this everyday, so no... they are not like chiropractors. Gee, I really thought you knew at least something about our healthcare system, Jim. If you'd like, I have a few picture books at home which my 8 year old used for a history project and they just might be at your level, if you'd like to fill the gaping holes in your knowledge of 'post 1870's healthcare.'"

By now, you've got Jim feeling like a *****. This actually works pretty good... if you guys are confident.

So where do you get this confidence? Well, fortunately some of us are born with it. Others... well, you'll attain this confidence when you start school and realize what a tremendous medical education you are receiving.

 

[Goofyone]

Originally posted by PublicHealth
The DOs that I have shadowed (N = 5), for instance, managed to get a much more comprehensive history of their patients than any of the MDs that I have shadowed (N = 9), and also tended to consider a wider range of treatment options.

Would you mind calculating a chi-squared, please? 😛

 

[group_theory]

Originally posted by Abraham
What about opening a practice, that negative stigma can hurt in business =/. So you might have to care what some people think.

GREAT RESPONSE SawBones
Hope your intern year isn't too hellish

Abraham - your question is based on the fact that there is a negative stigma in the general population about DOs. The sad truth (as evident in this thread) is that the general population DO NOT know that DOs exist. If you open up shop, w/ the word "Abraham, DO - board certified cadiologist" - you are viewed as a cardiologist. Besides, people do not worship MDs. MDs are a dime a dozen - just open up a phone book and look - pages and pages of them. Patients are not going to hunt down someone just because he/she's an MD. However, I have meet people who specifically look for the DO in their doctor, based on previous favorable experiences w/ osteopathic physicians.

 

[Elysium]

All I can say is Thank God Sawbones is back on SDN.

Your intelligence and humor are surely needed around here!

 

[bullhorn]

Thanks sawbones for your response, it was very amusing and witty....BUUUT I love my friends ...I partly attest their ignorance to environments. I know certainly my ugrad premed office was not trying to offer information regarding Osteopathic Schools. I did all the research on my own accord based on a favorable interaction with a DO. I am a very aggressive person or so I have been told, but I would definitely feel bad making my friend(s) feel like dumb a$$holes for not knowing about something I didn't know about until I graduated from college myself. But, I definitely agree about the confidence and will use the advice given on this thread to the best of my ability. Thanks to all that responded.... 🙂

 

[PublicHealth]

Originally posted by Goofyone
Would you mind calculating a chi-squared, please? 😛

Just trying to show that my conclusions were not drawn from one or two isolated shadowing experiences.

I wouldn't mind calculating a chi-square, but I will need another variable. 😛

 

[FowlersGap]

i don't think a lot of people in CA have a clue about osteopathy either

i learned about DO last year on the east coast

before that i heard a DO speak at an "alternative careers in medicine" meeting

he told us that he applied to "med school" and didn't get in and so he tried out DO and got in "its a great alternative to med school" he said, "plus you get to use your hands"

so after that i pretty much thought he was a chiropracter...

but everything changed when i learned more about the philosophy last year

my uncle thinks i'm gonna go door to door to make house calls...yeah so i don't think people really have a clue out here

it sucks; but what can you do; as long as you know what you're doing and you're doing the right thing that's all that reall matters in the end

 

[bullhorn]

Originally posted by FowlersGap
he told us that he applied to "med school" and didn't get in and so he tried out DO and got in "its a great alternative to med school" he said, "plus you get to use your hands"

so after that i pretty much thought he was a chiropracter...

It's no wonder some folks are ignorant..because it seems some DOs are lil ignorant when representing ostepathic medicine and schools. WTF? You get to use your hands? alternative to med school? 😕

 

[Tbonez]

Ok, I know ignorance is annoying, but come on. Almost all of us can look back to a time when we thought a DO was a PA, an optometrist, a witch doctor, or whatever. Quit getting upset with people just because they don't know better. As a paramedic, I often see these huffy little kids getting out of EMT or paramedic school that think they are freakin' God. They get their panties in tight little wads whenever some poor old lady that can't even remember the president refers to them as the "ambulance drivers". Gimme a freakin' break.

Q:Who cares about the most the "possible stigmatic differences" between DO or MD?
A: A premed

Q: Who doesn't have time to waste on such trivial things?
A: A DO or an MD


TBONEZ' TOP 5 THINGS RUNNING THROUGH PREMED'S MINDS
1. Oh yeah??? Well, I'm a legend in my own mind.
2. If you only knew who I THOUGHT I was... well... you'd be impressed.
3. I'm the ****! Just ask me, and I'll tell you so.
4. Don't believe me??? Ask me again.
5. Damn, I'm smooth.