If you are graduating from Georgia School of Ortho with 300k in debt is it worth it to be an ortho vs GP with no loans?
With all the new aligner entrants, not nearly as much as it used to be I take it.36 kids a year. I make 250k as a GP. I wonder how much you can expect to make as an ortho 5 years out.
This is a good point. You will come out with the ortho certificate, but how do they manage to double the student population and not have issues with the case-load. You may not learn a whole lot compared to other programs.Dental town had a new thread, since they doubled their class from 18 to 36; a couple people wondering how they will manage to get all those additional patient referrals, just something to consider in the broad scheme of things
300k for a two year program, right?
the five who voted yes gotta be students, faculty, or admin there hahah
Haha I got that letter too. They’re really trying hard to take in the money... It’s probably working too.Just look at their Google reviews. The program has been open, what, a couple years? They somehow have 220+ google reviews... as a new specialty clinic... with a 4.7 average. That's 2-4x all of the dental schools I just googled that see orders of magnitudes more patients and have been around forever.
Their entire scam centers around promoting a false sense of legitimacy pushed forward by outrageous marketing and what seems to be a team of astroturfers. They sent an excessively fancy letter to every single member of our DDS class imploring people to apply and puffing everyone up as exceptional applicants.
Interesting report. Who knew finding a job as an ortho was that tough. Some of my ortho friends mentioned it but I just figured they were a rare case.
Read carefully pages 19 and beyond
Read carefully pages 19 and beyond
Its pretty easy finding a GP in an area you want to live. Might not be the best job, but you can get one anywhere. Ortho I have noticed has limited jobs, and you may not be able to get a full time schedule.Is 300k in dental school tuition worth it to be a GP? Most members here say yes. So assuming one does not have any existing debt, why is 300k not worth it to become an orthodontist? Don’t orthodontists get paid more than GPs even as associates? You guys were discussing how hard it is to find a job as an orthodontist. Wouldn’t GPs have even a harder time finding jobs, just because there are many times more GPs than specialists? Just playing the devil’s advocate here.
And getting those Corp ortho jobs is very competative.
Is 300k in dental school tuition worth it to be a GP? Most members here say yes. So assuming one does not have any existing debt, why is 300k not worth it to become an orthodontist? Don’t orthodontists get paid more than GPs even as associates? You guys were discussing how hard it is to find a job as an orthodontist. Wouldn’t GPs have even a harder time finding jobs, just because there are many times more GPs than specialists? Just playing the devil’s advocate here.
Ortho I have noticed has limited jobs, and you may not be able to get a full time schedule.
I wonder how the recent grads from the program are doing in terms of finding jobs...Depends. Are you willing to go the rest of your career with your colleagues treating you with silent judgement if not outright contempt on top of that 300k price tag?
Saying that "school" is a bad actor in the field is an understatement.
I wonder how the recent grads from the program are doing in terms of finding jobs...
Depends. Are you willing to go the rest of your career with your colleagues treating you with silent judgement if not outright contempt on top of that 300k price tag?
Saying that "school" is a bad actor in the field is an understatement.
If you are graduating from Georgia School of Ortho with 300k in debt is it worth it to be an ortho vs GP with no loans?
Ah, as for me you are right, debt free which is awesome. No kids or home yet. Definitely enjoy ortho as I do both fixed and aligners in GP practice. I would be happier doing ortho, but not at the opportunity cost and the stresses that seem to come with getting your feet off the ground in ortho. My family’s happiness is my priority, and me going back to some 3 year residency with no pay with 5-10 years struggling as an ortho is selfish and unfair to them. The better play for me is to buy a cash flowing GP office that does no ortho, and do as much as I want in the practice.I totally agree. 36 residents? Geez. My residency accepted 4. There was real pride in knowing you were part of a very small group of residents.
Programs like this just further saturates a once proud exclusive specialty. But in the real world. No one will care. Seriously. No one will care. Patients won't care. What your colleagues feel about it won't matter in the real world.
No one can answer your question except for you. If your dream is to be an orthodontist. Then do it. If your dream is to make more money. Then an emphatic NO. Not a huge fan of the concept of lost opportunity costs. No one can predict the future. Your debt free I assume. Not sure if you have a family, home to support.
Even though the economic times may have changed for orthos. Nothing changes the fact that orthodontics is a desirable profession. To this day ... knowing what I know .... I would still be an orthodontist. 👍
Ah, as for me you are right, debt free which is awesome. No kids or home yet. Definitely enjoy ortho as I do both fixed and aligners in GP practice. I would be happier doing ortho, but not at the opportunity cost and the stresses that seem to come with getting your feet off the ground in ortho. My family’s happiness is my priority, and me going back to some 3 year residency with no pay with 5-10 years struggling as an ortho is selfish and unfair to them. The better play for me is to buy a cash flowing GP office that does no ortho, and do as much as I want in the practice.
My point was validation and also showing that 81% of people think going is dumb. Maybe this thread helps one kid in the future avoid plunging 1 million+ in debt.Sounds like you were never interested in attending this school. Not sure what the point of your thread is. Maybe you were looking for validation for youself on not attending there. Like I posted earlier .... I'm not a fan of these for profit institutions, but for that dentist whose life dream is to be an ortho (has no DS debt, financially secure, no family, hates general dentistry, etc. etc.) .... it's a choice. Maybe not the best financial choice, but a personal choice.
I saw a chart comparing a specialty, ortho salary, student loan debt payoff, vs GP salary, student loan debt payoff over time.36 kids a year. I make 250k as a GP. I wonder how much you can expect to make as an ortho 5 years out.
You make $250k because you are an experienced GP. Most new grad GPs who work 5 days/wk only make $120-150k/year as an associate. If a new grad ortho is willing to put in the same number of work day per week (by traveling to work at multiple offices) as a new grad GP, he/she should make close to $300k/year…..$1100/day x 22 days/month x 12 months/year. If an ortho has his own office + working P/T for a corp, he should make a lot more….and the additional 4300 student loan debt for attending Georgia ortho shouldn’t be a big issue. The job is much easier and the stress level is way less.If you are graduating from Georgia School of Ortho with 300k in debt is it worth it to be an ortho vs GP with no loans?
You make $250k because you are an experienced GP. Most new grad GPs who work 5 days/wk only make $120-150k/year as an associate. If a new grad ortho is willing to put in the same number of work day per week (by traveling to work at multiple offices) as a new grad GP, he/she should make close to $300k/year…..$1100/day x 22 days/month x 12 months/year. If an ortho has his own office + working P/T for a corp, he should make a lot more….and the additional 4300 student loan debt for attending Georgia ortho shouldn’t be a big issue. The job is much easier and the stress level is way less.
Seems like those traveling jobs are getting rarer and rarer to find. If you read the 2017 workforce report the numbers for new graduates are very different from what you posted. Corps rather have experienced orthodontists then new graduates and they have no trouble filling those spots. Extremely hard for orthodontists to share offices because there are a limited amount of patients to see per area. 100 mile drives 1 way are very common.
Well said. If one is not picky and is willing to travel, there are plenty of jobs available. It's a big misconception that the older dentists/orthodontists, who graduated in the 90s and 2000s didn't have to work hard and automatically became rich overnight. I knew an ortho who had to fly to AZ (from Utah) to work for Western Dental....and he graduated a few years ahead of me. My former classmate, who is an endo, has had to take a train from Irvine to work at an office in Pasadena. My wife's co-resident took a Nevada board (used to be very hard to get a license there) and flew back and forth between NV and CA. For my offices to get more patients, I have to charge low fee, work on the weekends, and accept low pay insurance plans (HMO, medicaid) etc. To keep the overhead low, I hire fewer staff and have to do many of the work at the office myself. To pay down the debts faster, I have to maintain the P/T job at the corp. I thought I could just quit the corp job and work for myself F/T once the student loans were paid off but a lot of things require money.....real estate investments, savings for retirement, kids' future college education, new cars etc.It's not all doom and gloom for these new orthos. When I graduated in the early 90's .... there were hardly any opportunities available in the metro Phx area. Very few Corp entities. At the time ... there were very few ortho practices for sale since they were doing so well. No associateships either.
After being unemployed for 6-12 months ... I literally had to go out and BUY myself a job. Bought into a partnership. I literally had no other options.
Fast forward to today. TONS of Corp entities. GP and pedo offices hiring orthos. Many more opportunities for a job than I had. I believe some of these new orthos are complaining because they thought it would be easy. It's not easy for any new "insert career" to get started. That's life.
New orthos complaining about travelling 👎 . Come on. After 18 months of a partnership ... I bought the entire ortho practice and started two more. One was in a rural town almost 3 hours of commuting BOTH ways. The other office was an hour each way. This was back in the early 90's.
You want to know why some Corps won't hire new grads? Because new grads are not stable. They are always looking for a better job or to start a private practice. Completely understandable. That's why alot of Corps rather hire someone like myself (late 50's, financially secure) who aren't looking to go anywhere.
Rather than complain on an AAO website ..... these new orthos need to hit the road. Find some PT Corp, associateship jobs, work out of GP/pedo offices, etc. and look to start a small start up private practice.
Well said. If one is not picky and is willing to travel, there are plenty of jobs available. It's a big misconception that the older dentists/orthodontists, who graduated in the 90s and 2000s didn't have to work hard and automatically became rich overnight. I knew an ortho who had to fly to AZ (from Utah) to work for Western Dental....and he graduated a few years ahead of me. My former classmate, who is an endo, has had to take a train from Irvine to work at an office in Pasadena. My wife's co-resident took a Nevada board (used to be very hard to get a license there) and flew back and forth between NV and CA. For my offices to get more patients, I have to charge low fee, work on the weekends, and accept low pay insurance plans (HMO, medicaid) etc. To keep the overhead low, I hire fewer staff and have to do many of the work at the office myself. To pay down the debts faster, I have to maintain the P/T job at the corp. I thought I could just quit the corp job and work for myself F/T once the student loans were paid off but a lot of things require money.....real estate investments, savings for retirement, kids' future college education, new cars etc.
In the last 2 wks, I've had some free time to fix things around the house..... painting the patio, clear out the bushes, planting trees/flowers, adding more sprinkler heads etc. Man, it's been a very tough 2 weeks. My back and my hands are sore but I am happy because my house and my backyard look better. I can't imagine how hard it must be for the full time plumbers and gardeners who have to all these manual labors every single day for the rest of their lives. That's why I kept telling the kids to go to school to become a doctor or dentist. Working as a GP is way easier. Traveling to work at multiple offices as an ortho is way easier.