Is GI unrealistic for an average MD student?

[Merely]

If you're an average MD student is GI in your future unrealistic?

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[bashwell]

If you're an average MD student is GI in your future unrealistic?

I think what matters more is where you go for residency and how you perform during residency. Not that GI can't reach way back into med school, but it should be a lot further down the list than residency, research, etc. Keep showing improvement over time. Obviously GI is the most competitive of the IM subspecialties.

 

[ordersol7]

academic IM programs are competitive but much less so than other specialties. If you are an average US MD (average meaning steps >200, no clerkship issues, and good LORs), matching into an academic IM program is largely a given if you're willing to be flexible on location. Once you are there your performance in residency and research you have done will be the main determinants in getting a GI spot.

 

[IMreshopeful]

If you're an average MD student is GI in your future unrealistic?

Get into the best residency possible. You should be okay at most academic IM residencies. Then you need to get involved in research, letters of recommendation, etc.

It helps to look at match lists for each specialty and see how the residency program is doing.

 

[Merely]

Where does one get info regarding specific IM programs fellowship match lists?
Also another quick question: whats better university of michigan IM or CCF IM? US news rankings has them very close together with UM only like 3 spots ahead. Are they that close?

 

[bashwell]

Where does one get info regarding specific IM programs fellowship match lists?

Check out each program's IM website. Not that every program will have match lists, but most seem to.

Also another quick question: whats better university of michigan IM or CCF IM? US news rankings has them very close together with UM only like 3 spots ahead. Are they that close?

I wouldn't trust US News rankings about IM and fellowship matches. Better to check out Michigan and CCF's fellowship match lists for GI if that's what you want (assuming they have match lists available online). I'm sure both are good programs, but if it were me I'd pick Michigan.

 

[bashwell]

Where does one get info regarding specific IM programs fellowship match lists?
Also another quick question: whats better university of michigan IM or CCF IM? US news rankings has them very close together with UM only like 3 spots ahead. Are they that close?

Here's Michigan's match list:

http://www.med.umich.edu/intmed/resident/Meet Our Team/ourgraduates.html

Here's CCF's match list:

http://my.clevelandclinic.org/servi...medicine-residency-program/fellowships#taba-2

 

[Merely]

What does house officer mean like why does it say that

 

[tantacles]

Where does one get info regarding specific IM programs fellowship match lists?
Also another quick question: whats better university of michigan IM or CCF IM? US news rankings has them very close together with UM only like 3 spots ahead. Are they that close?

Michigan is about 100 times better based on my experiences rotating at Michigan and interviewing at ccf.


Large dogs

 

[Crayola227]

What does house officer mean like why does it say that

it's an anachronism

any resident can be referred to as a house officer

just another historic holdover and hint at the almost militaristic nature of our training, and harkens back to a day when you literally had to live "in-house" at the institution
way back when doctors in training, much like apprentices anywhere, were required to live on-site where they trained

 

[Gastrapathy]

No more of an anarchronism than the term resident. They should be called shift workers who kinda want to learn something maybe.

I keed, I keed.

OP, GI is attainable for an average allopathic grad and is the best field in medicine.

 

[Merely]

No more of an anarchronism than the term resident. They should be called shift workers who kinda want to learn something maybe.

I keed, I keed.

OP, GI is attainable for an average allopathic grad and is the best field in medicine.

Sweet, then why do people talk about it being so competitive? Is that mainly for DOs and FMGs, IMGs?

 

[Gastrapathy]

Within the confines of IM, it is competitive but that isn't that competitive a starting pool. There are ~ 1.5 applicants per spot but only 0.8 US MD applicants per spot. The match rate for US MD grads is ~80%.

 

[aafisahar]

Sweet, then why do people talk about it being so competitive? Is that mainly for DOs and FMGs, IMGs?

because to even compete getting a GI spot, you need the full package. if you do everything right, you have ~80% chance of matching. Most residents trying for GI aren't coasting through residency and doing no research.

 

[Merely]

If there are only 0.8 MD applicants per 1 spot doesn't that mean they are essentially guaranteed unless they really are creepy/**** up big time? Sorry for being so pedantic I just want to make sure that GI is attainable since it seems like a very interesting field

 

[Gastrapathy]

80% are selected. Are you going to be in the top 80%? Without knowing you, there's an 80% chance. You'll have to adjust the odds accordingly based on your actual application.

 

[Merely]

80 percent seems like good odds to me, thanks for all the insight

 

[rokshana]

80 percent seems like good odds to me, thanks for all the insight

When practically every other field US grads match in the 90s% it's not so great... Being a US grad is certainly a leg up but there are plenty of them that don't match... You need to be active and show interest... Get to know the GI peeps, show interest, present at regional and national meetings... Then you will have a chance

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Take a look at this data: http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Results-and-Data-SMS-2016_Final.pdf

You'll notice that one third of this year's spots went to non-USMD's. This compels me to believe that being a USMD puts you in a very good position to match any IM fellowship.

 

[HelpPleaseMD]

GI is not unrealistic for the average US Med Student. It is by no means easily to get though.

 

[Merely]

GI is not unrealistic for the average US Med Student. It is by no means easily to get though.

Do GI fellowships looks at step 1 score?

 

[HelpPleaseMD]

look at match statistics provided by NRMP. If i tell you steps scores don't matter will you study less? don't worry about things you cannot control. dont be excessively neurotic. if so you should consider a field other than GI

 

[Merely]

Well theres no reason to get a 260 if you're going into FM for example, so yeah I would consider studying less lol

 

[IMreshopeful]

Well theres no reason to get a 260 if you're going into FM for example, so yeah I would consider studying less lol

I think you misunderstood what he's saying. It's not clear whether the step 1 is taken into consideration for fellowship apps. Therefore you should try your best and maximize your score as much as possible. It probably has some weight but we don't know really how much.

 

[Daodejing]

need to /endthread already

 

[Merely]

need to /endthread already

Why? You could always try this thing where you don't read it....

 

[bashwell]

When you take Step 1, you just do the best you can, regardless of what specialty you want (which many people don't necessarily even know yet what they want at the time they take Step 1). Even if you only want a specialty that doesn't care as much about Step 1, you still do the best you can, because it gives you more options (e.g., getting into FM at MGH). At least that's what a sensible person would do, right?

 

[rokshana]

GI is not unrealistic for the average US Med Student. It is by no means easily to get though.

frankly its silly to ask if an average med STUDENT can get GI...GI programs don't care what kind of med student you are...they are going to care about what type of resident you are...its a little bit like asking can an average college student get a good residency spot...

what the average med student needs to do is get the best IM spot they can...that will give them the leg up in getting a GI spot.

 

[rokshana]

Well theres no reason to get a 260 if you're going into FM for example, so yeah I would consider studying less lol

and that is why you are probably an average med student...

 

[Merely]

and that is why you are probably an average med student...

Work smarter, not harder.

 

[ordersol7]

OP, you may find this helpful.
http://www.eric.vcu.edu/home/Documents/AGuidetotheSubspecialtyFellowship_Application_Process.pdf
It's a short slide show on how fellows are selected. Some of the studies they quote are old now but it's not like the process has changed greatly over the years.
Most of the surveys put USMLE scores 8th or 9th in priority below things like research, LORs from specialists, overall residency performance, etc. So yes they still "matter" but they are kind of far down the list compared to those other factors. You should still shoot for a good step 1 to keep the door to academic residency programs open but after that it's more about how much your residency and subspecialty faculty like you and how much you publish. Hope that help.

 

[gutonc]

Just like competitive residency programs, competitive fellowships (and GI is at/near the top of that list) get way more apps than they can reasonably review. So they screen them. And one of the easiest ways to do so (automagically) is by using a Step cutoff score. So aim for the highest score you can and you won't have to worry about this.

FWIW, my Hem/Onc program uses a screen of any Step <2XX (don't know what the cutoff was the last couple of years but it was 220 the years I was reviewing apps). So score a 250 on Step 1 then slack off on 2CK or 3 and get a 219? No soup for you.

Essentially, the OP seems to be asking, "what's the bare minimum amount of effort I have to put in to get the most competitive IM fellowship out there?". Which is both an annoying, and unanswerable, question.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Board failures hurt programs. The best predictor of performance on future standardized tests is performance on prior standardized tests. Add that to @gutonc's point and most people would make an effort.

 

[jdh71]

Have you saved African orphans from burning buildings? Do you have a Nobel prize? Have you ever been a member of the president's cabinet at the secretary level?

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

If you want to do GI just do a chief year. I've known many subpar residents get fellowship spots (somewhere not top 20) by doing a chief year or research fellowship.

 

[Merely]

I really appreciate all the insight, I am not asking this to slack off or anything since Med school is not about just tests but obv learning info and developing a foundation, I'm asking out of curiosity and to better understand the profession and process.

 

[DNM]

There seems to be a lot of excellent advice from some senior people here. I'll contribute my 2c for what its worth.

As a student as well, but fourth year heavily interested in GI -- I think the 80% match rate seems reasonable for a US MD grad. It is important though to do the best you can during med school, so you can match at the best residency you are able to, which may give you better access to research / mentors / in-house fellowships / program name strength which fellowships ultimately will see.

If you are thinking about this relatively early on in med school, you also have the added benefit of time, which you can use to develop connections with faculty in the GI department and work on research. Meeting a excellent mentor in GI has been a huge benefit in terms of career guidance and also GI publications--I would urge you to seek out a good mentor if you are strongly considering GI. They, or fellows you meet would also be able to help you with some of your questions as well, and may be able to tailor advice more specifically to you/your program/region