Is going to pharmacy school in Europe a bad idea?

[medstudent87]

I'm just wondering what you all (current PharmD students) know about pharmacy schools abroad. My sister did 2 years of undergraduate education here in the US, but her major was still undecided at the end of the second year. After many talks with my father, they both decided that pharmacy school was the way to go, but she hadn't taken any pre-reqs yet and they were both afraid she might not have done well enough to even get into pharm-school in the US...so it would've been another 2 years wasted.

SO, my dad convinced her to just drop out of undergrad and go straight into a pharmacy school in Europe (in eastern Europe). My dad knew the school because he was born and raised in that country. The program is in English and takes 6 years...but I'm just wondering how hard it will be for her to come back to the US, pass whatever tests she needs to take and then get a residency + job??

(I don't know anything about the process of becoming a pharmacist...I myself am a 2nd year med student in the US)

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[p-rog]

I'm just wondering what you all (current PharmD students) know about pharmacy schools abroad. My sister did 2 years of undergraduate education here in the US, but her major was still undecided at the end of the second year. After many talks with my father, they both decided that pharmacy school was the way to go, but she hadn't taken any pre-reqs yet and they were both afraid she might not have done well enough to even get into pharm-school in the US...so it would've been another 2 years wasted.

SO, my dad convinced her to just drop out of undergrad and go straight into a pharmacy school in Europe (in eastern Europe). My dad knew the school because he was born and raised in that country. The program is in English and takes 6 years...but I'm just wondering how hard it will be for her to come back to the US, pass whatever tests she needs to take and then get a residency + job??

(I don't know anything about the process of becoming a pharmacist...I myself am a 2nd year med student in the US)

That sounds like a stupid idea to me. Pharmacy school takes 4 years here and with that extra two years she can take all the pre-reqs and raise her GPA. Why move to eastern europe and spend the same amount of time and then deal with having to take the FPGEE and THEN get the 1500 intern hours here in the states which will take another year or so.

 

[bacillus1]

Are you talking about the program in Ukraine? I actually really wanted to just do it as a semester abroad and even emailed them (their website says they have some kind of a research partnership with my school) but they never got back to me since this is probably not feasible at all, even as a P1.

These kinds of programs are very cheap compared to US programs, so I see that some may think of this as a good way to go, but if we're talking about the same program then I believe the degree you get from it is an MPharm, which is not equivalent to the PharmD. I think going through the whole process to become licensed in the US will take several years, and though the program is in English, some of the drugs that they use in Europe (moreover, Eastern Europe) are different from the drugs they use in the US. I would say not to do it, unless your sister wants to practice pharmacy in Europe.

 

[Sine Cura]

A five-year MPharm is considered equivalent to the U.S. Pharm.D. in the eyes of FPGEC as far as the formal education aspect of being qualified for practice goes. Actually, I'd say the U.K. MPharm is way more rigorous than the analogous 0-6 Pharm.D. in the U.S. (analogous in the sense that applicants are admitted right out of high school) partly because of the totally fail U.S. secondary education system.

 

[pharm B]

As others have mentioned, it doesn't seem like the best idea. Why not stay here and invest the two years in getting the pre-reqs done?

I can't imagine spending all that time learning the drugs there (as pointed out, the names are different for many of them) and having to come here to relearn. The intern hours, exams, etc, just make it seem like a bad idea.

 

[medstudent87]

As others have mentioned, it doesn't seem like the best idea. Why not stay here and invest the two years in getting the pre-reqs done?

I can't imagine spending all that time learning the drugs there (as pointed out, the names are different for many of them) and having to come here to relearn. The intern hours, exams, etc, just make it seem like a bad idea.

Like I said before, my sister and my father decided together that she probably wouldn't be able to get good enough grades in her pre-reqs in order to gain entrance to a US pharmacy school...

 

[ucrx]

SO, my dad convinced her to just drop out of undergrad and go straight into a pharmacy school in Europe (in eastern Europe). My dad knew the school because he was born and raised in that country. The program is in English and takes 6 years...but I'm just wondering how hard it will be for her to come back to the US, pass whatever tests she needs to take and then get a residency + job??

(I don't know anything about the process of becoming a pharmacist...I myself am a 2nd year med student in the US)

It will take a significant amount of time to become licensed in the US (getting intern hours and waiting to take exams) and will likely be difficult to obtain a residency. Many residencies list a Pharm.D. from an ACPE accredited school of pharmacy as a requirement. She would probably be better off contacting residency programs directly and asking her chances, although things can change in the next 6 years. As for a job, there are many foreign educated pharmacists working in the US. It will likely depend on the status of the job market at that time. I think the hardest part is becoming licensed.

 

[quartel]

Even if she can't practice in the US isn't it possible to practice anywhere in the EU? Or do you have to do an internship and write exams for different countries like the UK or Italy?

 

[medstudent87]

Even if she can't practice in the US isn't it possible to practice anywhere in the EU? Or do you have to do an internship and write exams for different countries like the UK or Italy?

she can practice anywhere in the EU...but I mean, her family and previous life are back in the US...

 

[quartel]

she can practice anywhere in the EU...but I mean, her family and previous life are back in the US...

It's a backup plan if she can't get licensed in the US. You don't want to do 6 yrs and walk away empty-handed.

I think as long as it is a 6 yr program, she has a okay shot but like the other posters mentioned it would be wise to call places up and do more research on this. You have to also consider market forces. If pharmacists are in oversupply in 6 yrs then obviously the standards will change and it will also be a lot harder to get residency. There's obviously a lot of unknowns and elements of risk. Worst case scenario she might be stuck in the EU practicing pharmacy. That must of entered their mind at some point right?

 

[medstudent87]

It's a backup plan if she can't get licensed in the US. You don't want to do 6 yrs and walk away empty-handed.

I think as long as it is a 6 yr program, she has a okay shot but like the other posters mentioned it would be wise to call places up and do more research on this. You have to also consider market forces. If pharmacists are in oversupply in 6 yrs then obviously the standards will change and it will also be a lot harder to get residency. There's obviously a lot of unknowns and elements of risk. Worst case scenario she might be stuck in the EU practicing pharmacy. That must of entered their mind at some point right?

honestly, i don't think they really thought it through. My dad's mindset has always been "the american education system sucks, just go to europe". I probably should've chimed in and told them I thought it wasn't the best idea, but I was too busy at the time worrying about myself and getting into med school. Furthermore, my sister isn't doing very well in school there AND she misses home greatly...i feel really bad for her, but there's nothing I can do. Anyone know of schools that accept transfers?

Even if there are, though...she definitely doesn't have the grades a transfer student needs....

I don't think she's even remotely interested in pharmacy....she didn't know what she wanted to do so my dad pushed her into it. Typical immigrant parent...

 

[pharm B]

I don't think she's even remotely interested in pharmacy....she didn't know what she wanted to do so my dad pushed her into it.

Aaaaaaaaand thread.

 

[Quiksilver]

This sounds like a mess. It also sounds like it is not worth it at all. Have you checked with the state board to see if they accept foreign grads, if you have, do you know the process that you are going to have to go through.

Lets just say that there is a way and you can do it...

How are European pharmacy schools? are they on par? Is she going to be ready for the Naplex, which tests brand and generic names.... She'll also have to learn law pretty much from scratch because I don't know how many laws are the same in the US and in EU.

To me, if you want it bad enough to go to europe for it, you want it bad enough that you will get the grades at all costs. Europe sounds like a very dumb idea.

 

[medstudent87]

This sounds like a mess. It also sounds like it is not worth it at all. Have you checked with the state board to see if they accept foreign grads, if you have, do you know the process that you are going to have to go through.

Lets just say that there is a way and you can do it...

How are European pharmacy schools? are they on par? Is she going to be ready for the Naplex, which tests brand and generic names.... She'll also have to learn law pretty much from scratch because I don't know how many laws are the same in the US and in EU.

To me, if you want it bad enough to go to europe for it, you want it bad enough that you will get the grades at all costs. Europe sounds like a very dumb idea.

well i mean, its too late now...she's already halfway through her second year there and tuition ain't exactly peanuts.

 

[p-rog]

well i mean, its too late now...she's already halfway through her second year there and tuition ain't exactly peanuts.

So if the decision has already been made, what's the point of the thread?

 

[aussiepharmer]

A five-year MPharm is considered equivalent to the U.S. Pharm.D. in the eyes of FPGEC as far as the formal education aspect of being qualified for practice goes. Actually, I'd say the U.K. MPharm is way more rigorous than the analogous 0-6 Pharm.D. in the U.S. (analogous in the sense that applicants are admitted right out of high school) partly because of the totally fail U.S. secondary education system.

More rigorous in terms of what? The difficulty and workload?

If that's the case, is it also because the UK uni education is much more focused on final exams than the US ones? (because I heard British unis have only finals, no midterms)

 

[Sine Cura]

Example course (University of Nottingham): http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/ugstudy/modules.php?code=000117&mod_year=1

In the U.S., competence in course prerequisites taken at the undergraduate level such as chemistry, biology, calculus, etc. seems to be addressed in the U.K. secondary education phase (if A-levels and such are meant to assess competence in such subjects), so there is no wasted time doing remediation in "basic science" in a MPharm course compared to the "analogous" 6-year PharmD program in the U.S. (where students take chemistry, organic chemistry, etc. at the undergraduate level) and actual accountability seems to be required of students with respect to the basics.

Now, I am aware that the U.S. and U.K. education systems are very different in prerogatives etc., but it's impossible to argue that pharmacy education in the U.S. is more efficient and more focused. For example, in the above course, pharmacology is already taught in the first year, whereas in the U.S. students would be expected to take physiology, biochemistry, etc., before taking pharmacology.

Also, it seems many U.K. MPharm courses have some compulsory research project component, while the vast majority of U.S. PharmD programs as a whole do not (University of Michigan being an exception).

Finally, as you say the frequency of examination seems to be higher in U.S. programs.

 

[medstudent87]

So, 3.5 years from now, what exactly is she going to have to do in order to be able to become pharmacist in the US?

 

[ucrx]

So, 3.5 years from now, what exactly is she going to have to do in order to be able to become pharmacist in the US?

I don't know the order, but some of the requirements are to pass the FPGEE, get enough internship hours (1500 in CT), and pass the NAPLEX and MPJE. The NAPLEX tests on brand and generic names, which may be different here, so that is extra learning. I have also heard that it can take a long time to have everything processed in addition to doing all of the requirements. I worked with a pharmacist who moved from Poland, and it took her over 2 years to get all of that accomplished.

 

[Sine Cura]

Gleaned this from the FPGEC application bulletin:

- graduate from an accredited school of pharmacy in a foreign country (at least five-year pharmacy curriculum; UK MPharm is handled a little differently since the actual degree is 4 years--pre-registration doesn't count--but apparently A-levels count toward the five-year requirement)
- be licensed and/or registered for the unrestricted practice of pharmacy in a foreign country or jurisdiction
- provide documentation for the above
- pass FPGEE (biannually administered)
- pass TOEFL iBT (no exceptions even if you are a native English speaker)

After fulfilling the above to get FPGEC certification...

- fulfill Board of Pharmacy requirements for the state(s) in which you want to practice (includes NAPLEX, MPJE)

As for residency programs, I would contact programs on a case-by-case basis...

 

[museabuse]

Like I said before, my sister and my father decided together that she probably wouldn't be able to get good enough grades in her pre-reqs in order to gain entrance to a US pharmacy school...

Pharmacy school is not that competitive to get into any more. People are getting in with C averages. With the number of new schools opening up I am sure she can get in somewhere.

 

[drugdoc]

How about the obvious question.....if she doesn't have the ability to get good grades in basic courses, how is she going to have the smarts to stay out of academic trouble, pass pharmacy courses, and pass licensure exams? Pharmacy is not for everyone...