Is Harvard really all they say it is?

[mac_kin]

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[MeowMeowCAT]

I'm a Canadian who will be applying to several US schools.
I've always had the dream of Harvard, the idea of it being a prestigious school, ambitious people. But is it all that?

I've heard from random people I've met who attended Harvard in undergrad, that they hated it. That it was full of snotty spoiled brats and they regretted their decisions.

I am pretty sure it really depends on you how you will take on the experience. Most of the people that have a problem with "snotty spoiled brats" are usually not that great of people themselves. These people are probably the same people that were bitching and whining about the "popular kids" back in high school.

I think one of the better benefits of such "big name" schools is that they get a **** ton of funding and grants, so if you are planning to do some post-grad stuff you should not have much problem finding something that you are interested in and have at least a nice amount of people working with you.

But yeah, it really depends on your own take on the school. If you think you have all the requirements met for Harvard, then go for it.

 

[NickNaylor]

I think you probably have heard a mischaracterization of Harvard. The students that I've ran into that go there admit that those pretentious, rich, spoiled people do exist, but they are a minority and their own little "clique." But that's neither here nor there.

I also agree with the above in that Harvard may or may not be "all that" depending on what you're looking for. As an example, I interviewed at Hopkins and WashU and didn't really enjoy either experience. There are some people, however, that dream of going to those schools, but, if I were accepted to both, there would be a very small chance of me choosing to go there. That doesn't mean that they're horrible schools - not by a long shot - but that for me and what I want to do they weren't the best.

The point of that is that not everyone is looking for the same thing in a school, and you may or may not be impressed with what a school has to offer depending upon what your interests and goals are.

 

[unhappytnt]

Harvard's where it is at, yo!

 

[fishbait63]

I've known some people who attended harvard they did not seem pretentious at all; however that doesn't mean that there aren't pretentious people there. You will get pretentious people everywhere it's just in some people's nature.

Harvard is a great school and they have tons of funding and many great professors there. Additionally, they have many top residency programs and like to take their own (true of a lot of schools). But its not that different from any other good schools they aren't miles away from any other school and the opportunities you get are only because you take advantage of them. They dont make you more of a doctor then any other school a MD=MD=MD.

 

[ILikeDrugs]

Harvard has nice architecture.

 

[mmmcdowe]

What do they say about Harvard, now?

 

[Narmerguy]

I am pretty sure it really depends on you how you will take on the experience. Most of the people that have a problem with "snotty spoiled brats" are usually not that great of people themselves. These people are probably the same people that were bitching and whining about the "popular kids" back in high school.

I think one of the better benefits of such "big name" schools is that they get a **** ton of funding and grants, so if you are planning to do some post-grad stuff you should not have much problem finding something that you are interested in and have at least a nice amount of people working with you.

But yeah, it really depends on your own take on the school. If you think you have all the requirements met for Harvard, then go for it.

😕 How do people come to conclusions like this? I've seem similar declarations about various other topics and I never understood where it comes from.

 

[MilkmanAl]

😕 How do people come to conclusions like this? I've seem similar declarations about various other topics and I never understood where it comes from.

Not really sure, myself. I thought that disliking people who suck was pretty standard. I know plenty of people who went to Harvard from my high school, and many of them aren't exactly people I'd like to be around regularly. At least a few of them hated it for the reaosns you'd expect, but others liked it. I guess it just depends on you.

Personally, I didn't even consider applying to those schools for fear of getting surrounded by crazy people and paying loads of cash for an education I could get elsewhere for cheaper. Since med schools tend to take the most obnoxious of those people and throw them into an even more competitive environment, there's no way in hell I would've sent my application to an ivy, had I been qualified for acceptance at one. Research ranks just below OB/GYN on my list of things that I will never, ever in a gajillion years do with my career, so they aren't a terribly good fit for me anyway.

 

[Dbate]

I'm a Canadian who will be applying to several US schools.
I've always had the dream of Harvard, the idea of it being a prestigious school, ambitious people. But is it all that?

I've heard from random people I've met who attended Harvard in undergrad, that they hated it. That it was full of snotty spoiled brats and they regretted their decisions.

So for anyone who attends, what is it like? Would you consider medical school there?

Thanks!

I'm a Yalie, so you can take this with a grain of salt, although I am being completely honest about my experience with Harvard.

I had the opportunity to visit Harvard during Harvard-Yale weekend, and if I could sum it up in one word, it would be elitist.

Harvard is exclusive. Not only in terms of admissions, but even in regards to their social lives. When I visited, quite a few of the parties were restricted and for the finals clubs you had to be on a list to get admitted.

And, although there are exceptions, in general exclusive=douche.

I am not sure if this culture extends to the graduate schools though.

 

[Dbate]

Harvard has nice architecture.

LOL, are you serious?

 

[Dbate]

"Personally, I didn't even consider applying to those schools for fear of getting surrounded by crazy people and paying loads of cash for an education I could get elsewhere for cheaper."

+1. Ivy league schools are a waste of money, if you are not on financial aid. I wish more people recognized this.

 

[Protagonistic]

The guy who graduated valedictorian from our high school like a year or so ago is now at Princeton, he says the part about it being exclusive is so true. He has talked to the seniors who have decent B averages, most he says whine about how they should have gone to a "easier" university so they could have had top GPAs.

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

The guy who graduated valedictorian from our high school like a year or so ago is now at Princeton, he says the part about it being exclusive is so true. He has talked to the seniors who have decent B averages, most he says whine about how they should have gone to a "easier" university so they could have had top GPAs.

I have personally considered this as well. There are such things as easier universities, even if you find that to be an elitist statement (I transferred out of a mediocre University, and can personally attest to this). When you have a mediocre GPA from a tough school, it is only natural to wonder what you could have gotten elsewhere. This is nothing to ruminate on however, and I hope they spend more time improving than whining.

 

[Chamahk]

Yale is better. 😎 . "Oh Yale, Oh Yale..." 😍😍

 

[Chamahk]

Harvard's not much, but a lot better than what you will get into.

You got banned "ColeOhTheRoll" what a clever user name hahahahahahahahah

 

[VikingLegacy]

.

 

[Dial71]

I personally didn't apply to any Ivy's because I don't plan on a research career. As far as I understand, if you attend an Ivy, there's an expectation that you will incorporate some sort of research into your career. I am happy being a simple clinician.


Moreover, I wouldn't attend an Ivy due to the stigma. If you do, you'll always be known as the "Havard-man" or "Yale-doctor". People will expect you to be a little snobby, academic, aloof and cold. More so IRL than in academia.

Not that it's true in any way, but people are people, and thus are predisposed to judge. I'd rather not have to live down that reputation.

That said, flame away.

 

[Jolt21]

yea...it's pretty awesome.

 

[Dbate]

The guy who graduated valedictorian from our high school like a year or so ago is now at Princeton, he says the part about it being exclusive is so true. He has talked to the seniors who have decent B averages, most he says whine about how they should have gone to a "easier" university so they could have had top GPAs.

Oh, sucks for people who go to Princeton. I am actually inclined to think the opposite, I often wonder if my grades would be lower if I attended another school. I work alot, but the work at Yale isn't that hard and grade inflation here is ubiquitous. Even our organic chemistry class was curved to the B+/B range. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if you were hard pressed to find a senior with a B average here, well one that actually did work.

 

[dbeast]

I'm a Yalie, so you can take this with a grain of salt, although I am being completely honest about my experience with Harvard.

I had the opportunity to visit Harvard during Harvard-Yale weekend, and if I could sum it up in one word, it would be elitist.

Harvard is exclusive. Not only in terms of admissions, but even in regards to their social lives. When I visited, quite a few of the parties were restricted and for the finals clubs you had to be on a list to get admitted.

And, although there are exceptions, in general exclusive=douche.

I am not sure if this culture extends to the graduate schools though.

First of all, it's Final Clubs not Finals Clubs. And they're exclusive and fun and they lead to a better life.

You must go to BU 🙄

 

[curlytop]

Pardon the possibly dumb question - but what's a Final Club?

 

[Dbate]

First of all, it's Final Clubs not Finals Clubs. And they're exclusive and fun and they lead to a better life.

You must go to BU 🙄

You must not be able to read.

 

[Dbate]

Pardon the possibly dumb question - but what's a Final Club?

They're like frats but more exclusive and douchey. Each of the big three has their own version of anachronistic, exclusivity. For Harvard it is the final clubs. For Yale it is the Secret Societies. And for Princeton it is the Eating Clubs.

I only go to Yale so I can comment on the importance/prominence of the Secret Societies. They don't matter. Admission to the societies of consequence (Skull and Bones, Scroll and Key, and Wolf's Head) are principally determined by who you know and not by your ability to be a future leader. Although it was pretty cool to wake up every morning and see skull and bones outside my freshman window.

I do not know if they lead to a better life, but I emphatically can state that Skull and Bones does not. The alumni cut the club off after they started admitting women and, as a result, their influence has been severely diminished.

From my limited exposure to Harvard, final clubs seem to matter in terms of social life. And some people believe that they lead to a better life, which is completely nonsensical if one wants to be a doctor, because an individual is not going to be admitted to a medical school or reimbursed at a higher rate because they were in a final club. If anything the only people who actually believe that the clubs lead to a better life are those in the club.

 

[docelh]

Even our organic chemistry class was curved to the B+/B range.

That is quite absurd.

Maybe you should attend a more rigorous school like Harvard.

 

[Dbate]

That is quite absurd.

Maybe you should attend a more rigorous school like Harvard.

No thank you, I <3 grade inflation 🙂. Also it sucks. I got my lowest grades so far in orgo and math, a B 🙁

 

[docelh]

One of the best things about doing post-bac coursework at the local state U is that the women are overall very good-looking. A healthy representation of beautiful girls, and at least 30% of the women can be deemed pretty/cute.

I doubt that this would apply at Harvard, the Ivies, or other nerd schools.

 

[dbeast]

You must not be able to read.

Social Network 🙂

Justin Timberland is so hawt

 

[Dbate]

Social Network 🙂

Justin Timberland is so hawt

1) Your image didn't work.
2) It was rude and inappropriate when they said it in the movie and that fact doesn't change now.

 

[dbeast]

1) Your image didn't work.
2) It was rude and inappropriate when they said it in the movie and that fact doesn't change now.

Lolz fixed... found a funnier one.

Don't blame me, blame Aaron Sorkin.

 

[NickNaylor]

First of all, it's Final Clubs not Finals Clubs. And they're exclusive and fun and they lead to a better life.

You must go to BU 🙄

If you were going to invent the Facebook, then you should've invented the Facebook.

 

[KPCOFGS]

For two people whose usernames are so similar, you two seem to be bickering a lot!

 

[smad4]

Worry about how good Harvard is if you get in. No point in thinking about it now.

 

[shinee]

It would be nice to get accepted to Harvard. 🙂 but the field I would like to go into doesn't require many research etc related (as far as I know I could be wrong). Like the posters above said these school get tons of money for research, but im not into that, I just wanna be a Trauma surgeon 🙂

 

[n3xa]

I'm a Yalie, so you can take this with a grain of salt, although I am being completely honest about my experience with Harvard.

I had the opportunity to visit Harvard during Harvard-Yale weekend, and if I could sum it up in one word, it would be elitist.

Harvard is exclusive. Not only in terms of admissions, but even in regards to their social lives. When I visited, quite a few of the parties were restricted and for the finals clubs you had to be on a list to get admitted.

And, although there are exceptions, in general exclusive=douche.

I am not sure if this culture extends to the graduate schools though.

I visited Yale after being accepted into their graduate program for chemistry and found it to be a bit elitist as well.

I ultimately chose a large public university in the midwest because when I asked the grad students why they chose their school, most of them loved the huge amount research opportunities available to them that was in line with what they wanted to do, great location, cheap, etc. etc.

When I asked students at Yale the same question, they looked at me like I was bat**** insane and told me straight up, "Cause it's Yale." 😕

I probably wouldn't have picked Yale that year anyway because they didn't offer much of what I wanted to do at the time as far as research goes (total synthesis), but that sort of attitude turned me off a bit.



tl;dr - Be honest with what you're looking for as far as training/education goes, and then choose accordingly.

 

[Dbate]

I visited Yale after being accepted into their graduate program for chemistry and found it to be a bit elitist as well.

I ultimately chose a large public university in the midwest because when I asked the grad students why they chose their school, most of them loved the huge amount research opportunities available to them that was in line with what they wanted to do, great location, cheap, etc. etc.

When I asked students at Yale the same question, they looked at me like I was bat**** insane and told me straight up, "Cause it's Yale." 😕

I probably wouldn't have picked Yale that year anyway because they didn't offer much of what I wanted to do at the time as far as research goes (total synthesis), but that sort of attitude turned me off a bit.



tl;dr - Be honest with what you're looking for as far as training/education goes, and then choose accordingly.

Did you ask graduate students or undergrads? Because the grad students are probably more concerned with prestige than the undergrads. Or, at the very least, that is more of a draw than on the undergraduate level. Many of the reasons that Yale is great are available only to undergrads. Also, the culture at the graduate schools is rather peripheral to campus culture. I rarely run into grad students and they don't live in the best of areas (they are always getting mugged).

I have a less than stellar opinion of all the grad and professional students because the lower standards of admission for the grad students is apparent, aside from the law school and probably the medical school, although I have not interacted with medical students often.
Case in point: I asked my orgo TA (who is currently receiving her PhD in chemistry after getting a bachelors from Berkeley) a question that was on our test and her response verbatim: "Um, I don't know. I don't think well on my feet" 😱 She was a really nice lady though.
And my chem lab TA was even worse. Actually, come to think of it, most of my incompetent TAs have been in the chem department, lol!

 

[docelh]

All this talk is pointless because the best elite school is Stanford.

Great weather, less outwardly stressful students, and playing in the Orange Bowl.

I guess Harvard, Yale, Brown, Dartmouth, and Penn would be decent options.

Thumbs down on Columbia, Princeton, and especially Cornell.

 

[n3xa]

Did you ask graduate students or undergrads? Because the grad students are probably more concerned with prestige than the undergrads. Or, at the very least, that is more of a draw than on the undergraduate level. Many of the reasons that Yale is great are available only to undergrads. Also, the culture at the graduate schools is rather peripheral to campus culture. I rarely run into grad students and they don't live in the best of areas (they are always getting mugged).

I have a less than stellar opinion of all the grad and professional students because the lower standards of admission for the grad students is apparent, aside from the law school and probably the medical school, although I have not interacted with medical students often.
Case in point: I asked my orgo TA (who is currently receiving her PhD in chemistry after getting a bachelors from Berkeley) a question that was on our test and her response verbatim: "Um, I don't know. I don't think well on my feet" 😱 She was a really nice lady though.
And my chem lab TA was even worse. Actually, come to think of it, most of my incompetent TAs have been in the chem department, lol!

In graduate school, it's less of what school is granting you the degree and more who you're doing research for.

I take it you've never taught before?

 

[FlowRate]

All this talk is pointless because the best elite school is Stanford.

Great weather, less outwardly stressful students, and playing in the Orange Bowl.

I guess Harvard, Yale, Brown, Dartmouth, and Penn would be decent options.

Thumbs down on Columbia, Princeton, and especially Cornell.

All I know about Cornell is that it's where engineering GPA's go to die.

I thought Harvard was a pretty cool place in terms of med school when I went to interview. It's almost entirely disconnected from the undergrad campus, as far as I could tell. (It's across a river or 20-30 minutes of train riding away)

Penn was also super cool. All the students were really friendly, knew how to have fun and be wacky, and the administration seemed to care. I liked that it was well integrated with other grad programs and also very close to the undergrad campus.

That's about all I have experienced with the ivies so far.

 

[MeowMeowCAT]

Penn is damn huge! According to their map it looks like every damn major has their own dedicated building. Slightly disappointed having missed out on going undergrad there, was late in spicing up my high school transcript with extra crap, so I am keeping my hopes up at least for grad. :/

 

[Protagonistic]

This thread makes me wish I had given a crap about college day one in high school

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

Actually, Princeton is pretty awesome. Just saying. 😀

+1. Princeton is the nicest school out of the Ivy's, and they treat their students the best in my opinion. I think it is the best undergraduate institution in the nation (along with Stanford), assuming you're not doing something specific like engineering. Their grad school acceptance rates are absurd, although most of the Ivy's are similar in that regard. I'd take Princeton over Harvard, Yale, and other Ivy's any day. No med school though, so it's irrelevant at this point. More diligence during high school would've helped...

 

[MilkmanAl]

Penn was also super cool. All the students were really friendly, knew how to have fun and be wacky, and the administration seemed to care. I liked that it was well integrated with other grad programs and also very close to the undergrad campus.

If it's the med school we're talking about, here, that is basically the polar opposite of everything I've heard. Penn sounds like the worst place on earth to me.

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

Oh, sucks for people who go to Princeton. I am actually inclined to think the opposite, I often wonder if my grades would be lower if I attended another school. I work alot, but the work at Yale isn't that hard and grade inflation here is ubiquitous. Even our organic chemistry class was curved to the B+/B range. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if you were hard pressed to find a senior with a B average here, well one that actually did work.

I realize that Yale is probably more challenging than you are letting on, but that inflation is atrocious. There is no reason to curve to a B+. At Vanderbilt the chem professor curved a B average (85 I think) to a B-(80/81) because he thought a B average was too high for an intro class.

 

[MeowMeowCAT]

This thread makes me wish I had given a crap about college day one in high school

Same. 🙁

I guess this is how "living their dreams through their children" parents are created.

 

[YouNeverKnow22]

I realize that Yale is probably more challenging than you are letting on, but that inflation is atrocious. There is no reason to curve to a B+. At Vanderbilt the chem professor curved a B average (85 I think) to a B-(80/81) because he thought a B average was too high for an intro class.

yeah that is pretty ridiculous, all our classes here are curved to ~70 (C-)

 

[FlowRate]

If it's the med school we're talking about, here, that is basically the polar opposite of everything I've heard. Penn sounds like the worst place on earth to me.

I'm talking about med schools, as I figured that's what the thread was supposed to be about (regardless of folks talking about UG). What have you heard about Penn Med? Seemed awesome to me. No downsides besides tuition, which is a downside at any school that you'd have to pay $50k+/yr at. If you'd prefer to PM that's fine, but since Penn is up there in terms of schools on my list that I interviewed at, a dissenting opinion is always helpful.

 

[Jolt21]

edit: i just realized this is talking about UG...oh well. all of my responses are tailored towards med school. read if you want.

Worry about how good Harvard is if you get in. No point in thinking about it now.

this is a good quote to live the admissions cycle by. always compare the schools you are already in. no use stressing about others till the letter comes.

It would be nice to get accepted to Harvard. 🙂 but the field I would like to go into doesn't require many research etc related (as far as I know I could be wrong). Like the posters above said these school get tons of money for research, but im not into that, I just wanna be a Trauma surgeon 🙂

a lot of kids here are primary care/things that don't need research. it doesn't matter. the primary care profs here are big shots on their own. paul farmer taught our social med class. we just opened a new primary care initiative with him and tons of other people.

i dont really care for the whole thing, but whatever you wanna do - research needed or not - the people here will help you get there, and they're pretty great. i'm sure this is true at a lot of places, but just trying to get rid of HMS's stigma.

All this talk is pointless because the best elite school is Stanford.

Great weather, less outwardly stressful students, and playing in the Orange Bowl.

I guess Harvard, Yale, Brown, Dartmouth, and Penn would be decent options.

Thumbs down on Columbia, Princeton, and especially Cornell.

😛

I thought Harvard was a pretty cool place in terms of med school when I went to interview. It's almost entirely disconnected from the undergrad campus, as far as I could tell. (It's across a river or 20-30 minutes of train riding away)

Penn was also super cool. All the students were really friendly, knew how to have fun and be wacky, and the administration seemed to care. I liked that it was well integrated with other grad programs and also very close to the undergrad campus.

Harvard College is a free 20min bus ride right from the steps of the med school away.

and for what it's worth, Penn stole the most kids away from HMS for the class of 2014 (goes back and foth b/w UCSF, Stanford, JHU, and Penn from what i hear, but Penn gave maaaaaad money away last year)

HMS does not offer merit scholarships b/c everyone is boss in their own right already. multiple of each rhodes/marshall scholars in my class, plus a classmate won the rhodes this year, so he's leaving us this summer. pretty impossible to give merit aid. that being said, the middle income initiative is BALLER.

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/sto...-student-debt-burden-with-new-financing-plan/

in a gist: if parents combine to make less than 120k, you are 98k in debt when you graduate. thats BOSS.

This thread makes me wish I had given a crap about college day one in high school

yea, teach that to young students now if you get the chance. goes a long way.

I'm talking about med schools, as I figured that's what the thread was supposed to be about (regardless of folks talking about UG). What have you heard about Penn Med? Seemed awesome to me. No downsides besides tuition, which is a downside at any school that you'd have to pay $50k+/yr at. If you'd prefer to PM that's fine, but since Penn is up there in terms of schools on my list that I interviewed at, a dissenting opinion is always helpful.

i haven't heard much great about it, or much bad. only thing i heard bad is the location. my mentor who went there, did her med school and residency there in neurosurgery, did not agree with me when i said it was my #1 when applying last year. that's all i know. i didn't even get an invite, so I can't say much. i'm sure everyone's experience is different.

that being said, strict Pass/Fail for the first 2 years is AWESOME. i can't say that enough. i didn't pick HMS over Mayo based off that, but looking back, it is easily the deciding factor. No high pass, or marginal pass. just Pass or Fail. i can't imagine actually caring how i did compared to the rest of the class for every class/exam...just gimme that P. it really allows you to keep going on with your life. i still do my hobbies (DJing, gym, basketball games, etc), while doing multiple projects whenever I want. pretty freakin sweet.

 

[ILikeDrugs]

Jolt21: You had a 3.4 GPA and 31 MCAT. You got into Harvard. You're ECs are great, but 😕 did you have LORs from the head honchos over at the NAACP?

 

[Jolt21]

Jolt21: You had a 3.4 GPA and 31 MCAT. You got into Harvard. You're ECs are great, but 😕 did you have LORs from the head honchos over at the NAACP?

nah. a combo of things. things that come to mind immediately...

LOR's were strategically planned throughout undergrad
maximized my 2 years off
took a bold move for my PS
crushed interviews


really stuff a lot of people could do, but choose not to. dunno why 😕