is intentionaly going GMO a bad idea?

[Rubicon]

Im thinking about going after a HPSP spot but am somewhat hesitant because of what could happen come match time. Since i wouldn't be taking the 4 year scholarship, is just being a GMO for a couple years going to give me the most professional freedom? (read civilian residency with no strings attached)

if so do residency programs look at the time spent in the service as a good thing or is it CV neutral?

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[orbitsurgMD]

Im thinking about going after a HPSP spot but am somewhat hesitant because of what could happen come match time. Since i wouldn't be taking the 4 year scholarship, is just being a GMO for a couple years going to give me the most professional freedom? (read civilian residency with no strings attached)

if so do residency programs look at the time spent in the service as a good thing or is it CV neutral?

The sales pitch by the recruiters is "a couple of years."

That may or may not be true, depending on what it is you want to be trained in.

It isn't CV-neutral, all other things being equal. It is made to count for something. If it weren't, there would be even more objection as it would be seen as a plain bait and switch type of deal by the services, the kind people go to jail for doing. That said, just because you do a GMO tour guarantees you exactly nothing. You might still not be accepted to a military program you want. Those terms alone make it a bad deal, especially when it doesn't apply to everyone. And while some will say you aren't guaranteed acceptance on the civilian side either, which is true, you are further limiting your chances because the numbers of available training slots is far fewer in the military hospital system than it is in the civilian system, in every specialty. When you sign with the military, you are reducing your chances for acceptance at a program of your choosing no matter what your choice may be, even if the numbers of applicants aren't enough to fill the spots.

But the better questions to ask are whether doing a GMO tour is a good idea in and of itself, and then is it really the way you would plan your career if you had the choice?

 

[Rubicon]

The sales pitch by the recruiters is "a couple of years."

That may or may not be true, depending on what it is you want to be trained in.

It isn't CV-neutral, all other things being equal. It is made to count for something. If it weren't, there would be even more objection as it would be seen as a plain bait and switch type of deal by the services, the kind people go to jail for doing. That said, just because you do a GMO tour guarantees you exactly nothing. You might still not be accepted to a military program you want. Those terms alone make it a bad deal, especially when it doesn't apply to everyone. And while some will say you aren't guaranteed acceptance on the civilian side either, which is true, you are further limiting your chances because the numbers of available training slots is far fewer in the military hospital system than it is in the civilian system, in every specialty. When you sign with the military, you are reducing your chances for acceptance at a program of your choosing no matter what your choice may be, even if the numbers of applicants aren't enough to fill the spots.

But the better questions to ask are whether doing a GMO tour is a good idea in and of itself, and then is it really the way you would plan your career if you had the choice?

im a little confused as to how 2 years could be turned into something longer if im not looking at doing a military residency. same goes for the point about being hamstrung while applying to a program.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

im a little confused as to how 2 years could be turned into something longer if im not looking at doing a military residency. same goes for the point about being hamstrung while applying to a program.

Consider this: you take HPSP for three years and you will owe three years service in repayment, outside of training. You have decided you want to become a radiologist. You apply for PGY2 radiology during your internship and are wait-listed as an "alternate" but are not accepted. You are offered a GMO tour, the opportunity to apply for flight surgery or diving medicine as an alternative. You choose GMO with the Marines, which is the minimum-length tour as a GMO, two years. Off to Lejeune you go after internship. While you are there, you apply again, but because of a huge number of applicants who also want to be radiologists, you are again wait-listed. Now you have a choice, keep applying and hope you are picked up or start a plan-B and apply for a civilian spot to start the July you have finished your repayment. Suppose you apply for the civilian and are accepted to a program you desire. Great, bird in the hand. You finish another additional year with the Marines and you leave active duty. You will have served three years as a GMO, not two.

You will have to repay the number of years you take under scholarship if you do not incur additional obligation by taking military residency training. The minimum number of years you must pay back is three, even if you take a scholarship for only two years.

 

[TheGoose]

You will have to repay the number of years you take under scholarship if you do not incur additional obligation by taking military residency training. The minimum number of years you must pay back is three, even if you take a scholarship for only two years.

while this is true, your internship year actually counts as part of your minimum active duty time of 3 years. (for the navy i know this is true, because i have looked into it, the other services im not sure)....If this was the case, you would take a 2 yr HPSP, do you internship and do a 2 year GMO and be done. I know this because it was a path i considered. - and to answer the question put forth by the OP in the title: no (assuming you know what youre getting into)

 

[Rubicon]

I was thinking it was three years also but then i cam across this the other day,


"YOUR OBLIGATION
Your active duty service obligation to the U.S. Army is one year of service for every year you receive the scholarship. Your minimum obligation depends on your health care field. For example, the minimum obligation for medical students is two years. Dental, psychology, optometry and veterinary students are obligated to serve no fewer than three years. There is an additional obligation for residency and fellowship training."

(http://www.goarmy.com/amedd/hpsp.jsp)




so with two years as a possibility, and if i don't even apply for a military residency program, could i do my internship and a 1 year hardship GMO or just a regular 2 year gmo? can they force you to apply to a program in order to meets their needs? would it look really bad if you haven't applied anywhere, preventing me from getting a spot as a flight surgeon etc.?



-thanks a bunch guys

 

[orbitsurgMD]

I was thinking it was three years also but then i cam across this the other day,


"YOUR OBLIGATION
Your active duty service obligation to the U.S. Army is one year of service for every year you receive the scholarship. Your minimum obligation depends on your health care field. For example, the minimum obligation for medical students is two years. Dental, psychology, optometry and veterinary students are obligated to serve no fewer than three years. There is an additional obligation for residency and fellowship training."

(http://www.goarmy.com/amedd/hpsp.jsp)



so with two years as a possibility, and if i don't even apply for a military residency program, could i do my internship and a 1 year hardship GMO or just a regular 2 year gmo? can they force you to apply to a program in order to meets their needs? would it look really bad if you haven't applied anywhere, preventing me from getting a spot as a flight surgeon etc.?



-thanks a bunch guys

Doing a hardship tour doesn't reduce your obligation, all it does is shorten the minimum time you must take (unaccompanied) orders to a hardship location. You will still have to serve a second year somewhere else after the hardship tour is done. It is not a two for one deal. Typically they will give you a choice of locations for follow-on duty, unless they are desperate for bodies to send somewhere.

They can only force you to apply for their internships, nothing else. You are free to never apply for a PGY2 slot in the military.

 

[adismo]

orbitsurgMD pretty much describes my situation, except my obligation is 3 years, finishing all three with the Marines, have the option of getting out in 2009.

so, yes "bad idea" is one way to describe it. you are not at any disctinct advantage, for the most part. getting the civilian PD's to recognize you among a pool of competitive medical students or interns is difficult. The counterpoint to that is, based on others' experiences, that the GMO tour may work to your advantage. This is dependent on the details of your experience as a GMO or your ability to sell yourself or both. But i don't recommend going into the HPSP with that as a endpoint.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

Don't forget that internship does NOT count toward paying back your commitment.

I think the new guys might not be clear on that point.

 

[TheGoose]

Don't forget that internship does NOT count toward paying back your commitment.

I think the new guys might not be clear on that point.

in the case of the navy with a 2 year HPSP scholarship (and thus a 3 year MSO), internship does, in fact, count towards that 3 year MSO. there is a navy hpsp payback chart i have listed in my previous posts confirming this....i can dig it up if you guys cant find it

 

[sethco]

in the case of the navy with a 2 year HPSP scholarship (and thus a 3 year MSO), internship does, in fact, count towards that 3 year MSO. there is a navy hpsp payback chart i have listed in my previous posts confirming this....i can dig it up if you guys cant find it

Of course, this assumes your intern year is done at a military hospital. Otherwise, you would serve as a 3 year GMO (with only a 2 year scholarship)

This is not a major issue for Navy or Army, but there are not enough PGY-1 military positions for the AF to cover even half (maybe exagerating?) of the HPSP participants.