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Is it bad to ask for publications?
- Thread starter SonhosDaVida
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Bad etiquette aside, I think asking for a publication right off the bat shows a general lack of intellectual humility along with poor understanding of how research usually goes. Rest assured that, whether you ask or not, that first author paper is only going to come to you with a LOT of hard work and persistence.
Remember, you're in that environment to learn, first and foremost. Don't go into it thinking that the only way you'll benefit from this opportunity is by getting a publication. Instead, work towards independence and prove to the lab that you're worth any paper, let alone a first-author.
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I personally find it bad taste to be so blunt about publications and authorship. Asking for new projects is fine, asking for independence is great, but papers are never guaranteed, and asking for a project that leads to a paper is a bit naive.
However, that's just my personal experience with the labs I've done research in.
However, that's just my personal experience with the labs I've done research in.
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Nobody can promise you publications, but if you are given your own project, or meaningful participation in one, independence, etc., and if you've been working for a long time and gotten quality results that make a coherent story, then you can ask your mentor about starting to write, especially if he/she doesn't seem to be taking initiative or seems to be putting it off (it happens!).
I disagree that it's "bad etiquette." Actually, my experience has been that mentors welcome those questions because they want authorship order on publications to be crystal clear. To tell your PI that you expect to develop independence and co-author a paper is completely professional. I personally think it shows motivation. If the PI says something like "I don't usually include undergraduates in my papers" then you know to run away.
Asking if the lab has opportunities for you to work independently and publish is ok. Asking how often people of your level publish in the lab is ok. Do it right and its a fine question. Be rude about it and expect a kick out the door.
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Allow me to chime in, echoing some sentiment from above.
My background: 5 years in research, two years full time at the graduate level.
It is absolutely OK to ask about publications. However, as some have noted this betrays a sense of naivety as, simply, science does not work that way. Sure, a project can be built around an insular idea or theme, which itself might fit the scope of a peer reviewed publication. However, seldom does the final product resemble the initial conception. Sometimes the experiments "won't work" or, commonly, tangential experiments drive it towards a more interesting conclusion.
The best way to broach this topic, as an undergraduate student, is, simply, to ask the following:
1) Are undergrads allowed to drive their own independent projects?
2) Does the lab include undergrads on papers, if the work is meaningful (we ain't cleaning glassware or do minipreps out here fam).
3) What projects in the lab are ongoing which I might be able to assist with?
Being enthusiastic (especially as a student at such an early stage) about the science is worth far more than a blind desire to publish (despite the current state of a "publish or perish" mentality).
In the end however, and as others have said, the most important thing is that you LEARN! You will fail. Things will not work. However, you will benefit from these missteps in your acquired knowledge (assuming you care about the science). And in troubleshooting and in failure you will be forced to read literature, more than you ever imagined possible or (quite frankly) wished to. However, when sitting across from that interviewer, wouldn't you rather be able to talk about your work eloquently instead of merely pointing to a paper with your name on it and shrugging?
Good luck!
My background: 5 years in research, two years full time at the graduate level.
It is absolutely OK to ask about publications. However, as some have noted this betrays a sense of naivety as, simply, science does not work that way. Sure, a project can be built around an insular idea or theme, which itself might fit the scope of a peer reviewed publication. However, seldom does the final product resemble the initial conception. Sometimes the experiments "won't work" or, commonly, tangential experiments drive it towards a more interesting conclusion.
The best way to broach this topic, as an undergraduate student, is, simply, to ask the following:
1) Are undergrads allowed to drive their own independent projects?
2) Does the lab include undergrads on papers, if the work is meaningful (we ain't cleaning glassware or do minipreps out here fam).
3) What projects in the lab are ongoing which I might be able to assist with?
Being enthusiastic (especially as a student at such an early stage) about the science is worth far more than a blind desire to publish (despite the current state of a "publish or perish" mentality).
In the end however, and as others have said, the most important thing is that you LEARN! You will fail. Things will not work. However, you will benefit from these missteps in your acquired knowledge (assuming you care about the science). And in troubleshooting and in failure you will be forced to read literature, more than you ever imagined possible or (quite frankly) wished to. However, when sitting across from that interviewer, wouldn't you rather be able to talk about your work eloquently instead of merely pointing to a paper with your name on it and shrugging?
Good luck!
