Is it common for EM residencies to ban moonlighting?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

DeadCactus

Full Member
Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
3,105
Reaction score
1,930
Just curious. Can you more or less count on being allowed to moonlight or it is common for residencies to prohibit it? A question to ask each program no doubt but I'm curious what the general proportions are...

Edit: Never-mind, just realized it's listed on the EMRA program list.

Members don't see this ad.
 
It depends on a few things.. the main two being:

1) Does your program allow it?
2) Even if your program allows it... do you have enough time to moonlight without it interfering with your work hour restrictions and/or residency obligations?

I'm in a 4 year program, so we work fewer shifts/mo compared to 3 year programs and our program actively encourages and supports moonlighting so the majority of us moonlight. There's pro's and con's. Do a search.
 
It can be more complicated than work hours restrictions.

Some programs that have "sovereign immunity" for its physicians and residents may have restrictions within their institutional malpractice policies...
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Moonlighting is one of those things you ask the residents at the dinner the night before your interview.

Be specific. Can you moonlight? Is a start, but other important questions are:

When can you moonlight
Are there any geographic restrictions on it
What are the allowable shift lengths
How many of your third years do moonlight

Moonlighting is a good experience, and employers seem to value it. It isn't till you start moonlighting that you realize what the strengths and weaknesses of your training were.
 
Also, not every program that allows moonlighting allows all its residents to start moonlighting at the same time.
 
Moonlighting is one of those things you ask the residents at the dinner the night before your interview.

Be specific. Can you moonlight? Is a start, but other important questions are:

When can you moonlight
Are there any geographic restrictions on it
What are the allowable shift lengths
How many of your third years do moonlight

Moonlighting is a good experience, and employers seem to value it. It isn't till you start moonlighting that you realize what the strengths and weaknesses of your training were.

This is huge and honestly more important to many groups (outside of academia) than the whole 3 vs 4 discussion. My community group has recently hired both 3 year and 4 year graduates. I can say that whether they moonlit or not has had a significant effect on how quickly try get up to speed.
 
Just curious. Can you more or less count on being allowed to moonlight or it is common for residencies to prohibit it? A question to ask each program no doubt but I'm curious what the general proportions are...

Edit: Never-mind, just realized it's listed on the EMRA program list.

Although I respect EMRA, remember that the list is only as current as the last person that updated that information so be careful making complete decisions on that info only...

Moonlighting is a double edged sword. On the one hand.. Most of us here that are EM trained and are ABEM, like to believe that in an idealistic world, every ED/EC/ER in the country would be staffed by a similiar trained physician. Obivously we are years from that, and most of us (including ACEP) are beginning to question if we will EVER get there. I dont know about the rest of you, but I did not learn EM to work in a center with a census of 4K a year where you sleep all weekend... Therefore, the simple act of a 'resident' moonlighting goes against the foundation of perfection.. Some people well say 'its only a piece of paper'.. and in some ways it is just that, but there are obviously tons of quality control behind getting that paper. I have great friends not EM trained and who work in the ED who are as good and many are actually better than I purely because they have doing this a long time. I think non EM trained people that dedicate themselves to the specialty tend to do ok.. its those people that turn the ER work for extra money or because of being squeezed out of their OB group, etc is who scare us.

On the flip side, I believe its well demonstrated by others on here, leaders I have talked to, and even in myself... that moonlighting in residency makes you a much better physician out of the gate. On the scale of moonlighting, I was way on the side that did it ALOT. I showed up to my new job and the first month I was well nestled into the middle of the pack as far as various numbers and indicators go. I needed more help knowing where the bathroom was and who takes care of dialysis patients than I needed with the actual practicing of EM. I think most moonlighters come out similiar. My first shift after residency, I was not afraid of patient care.. I was afraid of getting along with nurses, my new colleagues, and being plugged into the system. I had already overcome the stress that comes with 'practicing on your own' for the first time (And trust me, thats a BIG stress)...

So... personally I am a HUGE fan of moonlighting and really encourage students I mentor with to have a GOOD reason for ranking a program that doesnt allow it first. I do still stand by the fact that Number 1 rank reasoning should be going to where you will be happy....

So, to answer your questions... I am not certain what the breakdown is nationwide. I interviewed at about 13 programs 5 years ago now and it was about 50/50 then at the ones I went to. My gut instinct is that the true number is more around the 60/40 mark in that 60 allow it in some fashion.. Some places only allow you to work the fast track at your only place, to others that essentially let you do whatever as long as it does not interfer with residency....

Good Luck...
 
I know quite a few of the "academic" types don't like moonlighting because of many reasons. The malpractic risk of an un- or undertrained physician, the jury-rigging of the schedules to allow some people to moonlight, the paying of other residents to work your residency shifts (which I also don't support), etc.

But I'm going to say that moonlighting in the same geographic region as your home base is a huge experiential education benefit. First, most moonlighters end up transferring things back to their residency site. They can ask questions during that conversation, and they usually know those people they're talking to. Second, even if you aren't transferring, unless your attendings are dirtbags, you can usually call and talk to one of them to run something by them. I had a couple occasions where I wanted to ask someone something, and when you're by yourself, you are stuck. Unless you just call up your normal attending just like you're at the main site and ask them what they would do. Many are happy to help, and the vast majority of them also moonlit, so they know what is going on.
I do find it odd that on occasion, I will take checkout and give signout to residents that I'm currently training at some of the rurals. But then I realize that I trust them immensely more than the clowns that have been out there for decades doing it.

I say do it for the experience, not the money. The money is nice as well, but you never want to have to moonlight to pay for things. It should be the other way around (holy ****, look at all this money I have, I guess I'll go buy a tv/boat/paddle board/IRA)
 
I say do it for the experience, not the money. The money is nice as well, but you never want to have to moonlight to pay for things. It should be the other way around (holy ****, look at all this money I have, I guess I'll go buy a tv/boat/paddle board/IRA)

This.

No better experience than jumping into the deep end and making it work... trust your training & learn what's still deficient.

That said, this is why many programs have some modicum of minimum requirements - if you haven't demonstrated some ability to function independently, you probably aren't yet ready to be on your own.

As an aside about the money, too, consider using it to pay down debt (loans)... there's another active thread right now about student loans & ridiculous interest rates; throwing extra money at those is a better idea in the long run.

Cheers!
-d

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
 
I'd personally put the money toward retirement or mortgage. They can't repo the degree and there are abundant loan repayment programs. There are no "you're 30 and have no retirement savings, here is some extra money" programs. Granted there are exceptions like the guy who is 400k in debt in the other thread...
 
Top