Is it crazy to apply for two fellwships in the same university for the same year

[shehab3]

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I am interested in applying to surgical pathology fellowship and GI pathology. I know that it makes sense to do surgical first and then GI. I am interested in University of Michigan programs (both for surg path and GI). Do you think that it is crazy to apply to both programs for the same academic year and see whether I can get any of them? I want to be honest and tell them I want to do both fellowship. But I want to increase my chances of getting GI for which they have only one spot and they usually take an internal candidate.

 

[2121115]

I am interested in applying to surgical pathology fellowship and GI pathology. I know that it makes sense to do surgical first and then GI. I am interested in University of Michigan programs (both for surg path and GI). Do you think that it is crazy to apply to both programs for the same academic year and see whether I can get any of them? I want to be honest and tell them I want to do both fellowship. But I want to increase my chances of getting GI for which they have only one spot and they usually take an internal candidate.

I think there are several former UM residents that post here and they can probably answer your question specifically about UM.

 

[green mantis]

It's not crazy to apply for both the same year. If you're offered an interview, you should mention that you're interested in both. It's possible that they may already know since there's only one person who coordinates interviews for all fellowships at the institution.

At my institution, there were a number of people that applied for both SP & HP. Interviews were arranged so candidates met attendings in both areas.

I hate to burst your bubble, but at an institution that has residents, you'd probably still be considered an outside candidate for the GI fellowship. Internal candidates are people that did their residency at that hospital. That's been my experience.


----- Antony

 

[yaah]

They take external candidates for that fellowship frequently, seems like every other year or so. It is an exceedingly competitive fellowship though.

I don't think it's a big problem to apply for two different fellowships, especially if you do want to do both. If they are very different fellowships and you don't plan to do both (like cyto and dermpath) that might be different.

 

[pathstudent]

I would not take you. At this point surgpath is pointless for academics as you need to have an organ. So someone that wanted to do surg path or gi obviously intends to go community. It would be a waste to put you through a good top notch academic program

 

[shehab3]

I would not take you. At this point surgpath is pointless for academics as you need to have an organ. So someone that wanted to do surg path or gi obviously intends to go community. It would be a waste to put you through a good top notch academic program

I don't want to do either, I want to do both. I want to "have an organ", but at the same time, I don't want to spend my life just reading GI bx. In addition, a former resident from my residency program is currently a GI pathologist at Cleveland clinic, but she still signs out surg path one day a week.

 

[shehab3]

They take external candidates for that fellowship frequently, seems like every other year or so. It is an exceedingly competitive fellowship though.

.

Do you mean at UM?
And also a question for everyone, other than excelent LOR, what do I need?
I mean I cannot think of anything other than publications. I have only one which happens to be a dermpath, and I just submitted one in GI. Is that considered competeive enough, cuz to be honest, we have to apply for fellowship by the end of our second year, especially if we are lookin for a competetive place, and for me it does not look enough time to have 5 or 6 papers.
What do you think?

 

[pathstudent]

I don't want to do either, I want to do both. I want to "have an organ", but at the same time, I don't want to spend my life just reading GI bx. In addition, a former resident from my residency program is currently a GI pathologist at Cleveland clinic, but she still signs out surg path one day a week.

I'll buy that. I would make that clear in the interview.

Surgpath fellowships are good for polishing your write-ups.

 

[Gyric]

Do you mean at UM?
And also a question for everyone, other than excelent LOR, what do I need?
I mean I cannot think of anything other than publications. I have only one which happens to be a dermpath, and I just submitted one in GI. Is that considered competeive enough, cuz to be honest, we have to apply for fellowship by the end of our second year, especially if we are lookin for a competetive place, and for me it does not look enough time to have 5 or 6 papers.
What do you think?

I think you are going to have to be very lucky to pull this off. In my experience these ultra competitive spots go to in house trainees (sometimes promised as a recruiting tool before the match) or, if there is an opening, someone at a peer institution (often with a GI fellowship) in which an eminent GI pathologist makes a call on your behalf.

Yaah (or another UM SDNer) would be the expert on your chances at Michigan though.

 

[yaah]

I think you are going to have to be very lucky to pull this off. In my experience these ultra competitive spots go to in house trainees (sometimes promised as a recruiting tool before the match) or, if there is an opening, someone at a peer institution (often with a GI fellowship) in which an eminent GI pathologist makes a call on your behalf.

Yaah (or another UM SDNer) would be the expert on your chances at Michigan though.

Like I said, it is a very competitive fellowship. Outside candidates are taken. Whether it is an internal or external the candidate is always stellar. Great LORs, strong interest in GI path, usually some research or publications.

In the years it has existed, it has gone as follows

2005-6: Internal
2006-7: Internal
2007-8: Outside (Internal was turned down)
2008-9: Outside who rotated through dept
2009-10: Internal who did lots of projects in the dept
2010-11: I think external but not entirely sure.

 

[shehab3]

Like I said, it is a very competitive fellowship. Outside candidates are taken. Whether it is an internal or external the candidate is always stellar. Great LORs, strong interest in GI path, usually some research or publications.

In the years it has existed, it has gone as follows

2005-6: Internal
2006-7: Internal
2007-8: Outside (Internal was turned down)
2008-9: Outside who rotated through dept
2009-10: Internal who did lots of projects in the dept
2010-11: I think external but not entirely sure.

Thank you very much, that is helpful.
I have two more questions.

1-What about surg path? Is it mostly internal candidates as well? And since we are on the topic, do you know whether surg path fellow gross or not?

2-When you say "some" research or publication, what do you consider a good number,3 papers or 10?

 

[yaah]

1) It depends on how many internal candidates. Sometimes there aren't that many and there are extra spots. Surg path fellows don't gross unless they get a weird specimen or something that they want to get involved with.

2) That varies. For every position you apply for, "numbers" of papers are not usually the most important thing. It is quality and depth of involvement. At later stages of your career numbers can have more importance.

 

[Euchromatin]

I seem to remember that the person who did the surg path fellowship this year (2009-2010) has the spot for the GI fellowship lined up for next year. This is someone who did not do their residency at UM. I met them on one of my interviews. I don't know how many/what type of publications they had under their belt or any other details though.

 

[ScotchBonnet]

To my knowledge, UM has 3 surgical pathology fellows each year. I also believe the GI fellow for 2010-11 is from outside the institution. IIRC, one of the Michigan surg path fellows this year is doing GI in 2010-11 at a different institution (Vanderbilt?) but I don't know if that person was turned down for the in-house spot.

 

[zao275]

I applied for 2 fellowships at the same time from the same (outside) institution, and I was very upfront in my personal statement and my interviews to explain that I wanted both specialties (derm and soft tissue) and was willing to do them in either order or only take one or the other (basically, I was willing to do whatever they wanted). They called and offered me both spots as a kind of 2 year package deal. My attendings told me it would be fine to apply for both at once, but that I had to be honest about it and not try to do it behind their backs. It worked out great for me at least!

I did spend a month doing a rotation through the department right around the time I submitted my application, which I think was VERY helpful in getting the spots. If you can go spend even a few days there, I think it really will help to at least make you stand out from the other stack of applicants on their desk. Just my opinion.